Lousy Service

[Ferg]

Probably 2 1/2 weeks ago I ordered through the net from Siegel. The order never did get acknowledged, no response from them.

Last week I ordered again on the net. Called last Friday to see if they could tell me anything about a delivery date or at least a shipping date. Never received a return call.

Called today. A gentleman answered the call, looked around I guess but couldn't find the order. I asked if they ever check their net orders or if they just ignore them.

I thought it was a good question since I never received a confirmation of any kind.

Answer? Which is really beginning to get my goat, "Why don't you just order over the phone, that way we know we have your order."

I take that to mean you really do not pay much attention to your web orders. "Oh know, we check and print them out every morning."

Well you obviously missed printing the two orders I gave you.

"Let me help you with your order right now." I told him I wanted 2 Double shoulders, #1 grade in 6/7 oz. We are out of that right now, probably have some next week.

Okay, Sir, let's just forget I called you. I can buy somewhere else I am sure without your hassle

I will never attempt an order from them again.

ferg

[NoahL]

To be fair, they are currently in the process of moving to a completely different facility, so they may have quite a few issues going on with that. I actually had an issue with their service two weeks ago when I called to place an order for their Friday Special on horsehide, but their computers were down so the lady said she would call me back. I never got a call back, so late last week I called again and couldn't find anything stating that I had called and they took my order over the phone then--they charged my account, but I didn't do the math to see if they charged me standard price or the Friday Special price that I tried to get in the first place.

Probably 2 1/2 weeks ago I ordered through the net from Siegel. The order never did get acknowledged, no response from them.

Last week I ordered again on the net. Called last Friday to see if they could tell me anything about a delivery date or at least a shipping date. Never received a return call.

Called today. A gentleman answered the call, looked around I guess but couldn't find the order. I asked if they ever check their net orders or if they just ignore them.

I thought it was a good question since I never received a confirmation of any kind.

Answer? Which is really beginning to get my goat, "Why don't you just order over the phone, that way we know we have your order."

I take that to mean you really do not pay much attention to your web orders. "Oh know, we check and print them out every morning."

Well you obviously missed printing the two orders I gave you.

"Let me help you with your order right now." I told him I wanted 2 Double shoulders, #1 grade in 6/7 oz. We are out of that right now, probably have some next week.

Okay, Sir, let's just forget I called you. I can buy somewhere else I am sure without your hassle

I will never attempt an order from them again.

ferg

[Ferg]

To be fair, they are currently in the process of moving to a completely different facility, so they may have quite a few issues going on with that. I actually had an issue with their service two weeks ago when I called to place an order for their Friday Special on horsehide, but their computers were down so the lady said she would call me back. I never got a call back, so late last week I called again and couldn't find anything stating that I had called and they took my order over the phone then--they charged my account, but I didn't do the math to see if they charged me standard price or the Friday Special price that I tried to get in the first place.

Yes, I am aware of their moving situation.

No excuse for this kind of hassle.

UPDATE: The gentleman called back about 15 minutes ago. Said they found my order, part had been shipped, remainder on back order.

Wonder how long I could have waited if I didn't tell him to forget the whole thing.

We run a fairly large business, everything we do is by Drop-Ship. Most orders get shipped next day and there is no inventory for our personalized items. We deal with some of the largest companies in the US.

ferg

[Spence]

Ferg, I totally agree with you about customer service. The older I get, the worse it seems to get. Not too many years ago, if a company was relocating they made sure that their order dept and inventory was redundant enough to continue to provide top level customer service. Now it seems they feel they can make excuses and we, as customers must accept them.

When I become Emperor, things will change, by golly.

[Fen]

Ferg, I totally agree with you about customer service. The older I get, the worse it seems to get. Not too many years ago, if a company was relocating they made sure that their order dept and inventory was redundant enough to continue to provide top level customer service. Now it seems they feel they can make excuses and we, as customers must accept them.

When I become Emperor, things will change, by golly.

You ought to see how ugly it is on the "inside". Customers arent stupid.

[dirtclod]

I have ordered from Siegel probely a 100 times over the years. One time their was a mix up but they fixed it really quick. Every time i have called i've been treated very nice. Never had a problem ordering online either. One mix in a 100 orders is pretty durn good in my book. After all were human and not perfect every minute of every day, or i'm not.

[Julius]

I have also experienced lousy service from Siegel. I made an order for 3-4oz leather hide and never received it. I spoke to a lady who said they would ship it whenever they had more in supply, and it has been awhile. I did receive part of the order however (a 8-9oz double back), but I believe I was charged for the complete order. I completely forgot about this order until running into this post. On another occasion, I have had to email multiple times concerning hardware (buckles) that I was interested in. When I get a response, It would be forgotten and I'd have to double check. I had an inquiry about a certain buckle they used to offer, and after no response I just gave up on that. They have great stuff, but I am left with this bitter taste in my mouth.

[roo4u]

ya im not real happy with the recent service from them either. ordered some leather from an email i got from them. they quoted me wrong price and when i corrected them i got questioned extensively about the email like i was making it up or something...had to offer to send them a copy of it. one of the items was the 3 for $50 goat rawhide and i only got one hide...so had to call them and that person also questioned me extensively about the email....and i still havent gotten my other 2 hides. so probably wont go back to them any time soon...maybe after they get their s*@t together.

[jeeperaz]

They are no longer one of the places I purchase from.

Several months back, I called a few times and spoke to a number of people there. I was hoping they could recommend a type of leather to use. It was very difficult to get someone on the phone who seemed to have any knowledge of leather.... or else I would get someone who barely spoke english. But the kicker is when I finally got one of them to give me a suggestion (their DIamond Tan)... I asked for a sample and they said they would have to charge me for it. You can't just send me a small swatch, I asked... nope, they have to charge. I forgot how much they wanted for a sample but it was some absurd price (like $15 maybe). Thank you... I'll be glad to spend my money elsewhere.

[Ferg]

They are no longer one of the places I purchase from.

Several months back, I called a few times and spoke to a number of people there. I was hoping they could recommend a type of leather to use. It was very difficult to get someone on the phone who seemed to have any knowledge of leather.... or else I would get someone who barely spoke english. But the kicker is when I finally got one of them to give me a suggestion (their DIamond Tan)... I asked for a sample and they said they would have to charge me for it. You can't just send me a small swatch, I asked... nope, they have to charge. I forgot how much they wanted for a sample but it was some absurd price (like $15 maybe). Thank you... I'll be glad to spend my money elsewhere.

Update to my experience.

I am still feeling the same way. I do not like people to talk down to me, even if they are taller. I get that feeling with every communication with them, I don't need the hassle.

ferg

[awharness]

I had orderd off of a Friday special too... had always had great service with them. Didnt get the order and didnt get the order. I called, they couldnt find the order, I was on hold for 15-20 mins, they were thing going to call me back... Called a week later, same deal. the called me back about 3-four days later and have called again since about my order... I agree with the bitter taste in my mouth! I used to look forward to the friday emails!

[mleathers]

I personally called the owner an introduced myself. I was looking for a particular type of leather. I sent him samples at his request. The owner of Siegel bragged about how long he was in business and that he was an expert. In the samples I sent I also included my telephone number so he could advise me. He never called. I called the operator at the business and left message after message. He never returned any. Weeks went by and called again left messages on his cell. He never returned any call. Finally a month goes by and I call. I finally reached him. While on the phone he really seemed distracted and I could not get him to answer a question.

With someone like this who has been in the leather business since Jesus was the waiter at the Lord's supper, who cannot act professional needs to retire and let someone else takeover who is professional.

I will never do business with this guy Siegel. With the economy being terrible for all business you would think they would jump to being the best at customer service.

[King's X]

Unfortunately, I ordered from them 3 times in the past year or so. One of the three orders went fairly well and the other two were total failures! They were not moving at the time of one of these orders and they phones were not being attacked either. It seems that this is a 'one man' operation over there and that man has been unfortunately busy with personal problems as would any one in his situation. When this happens, well business will suffer, maybe not to the big guys who order tons of stuff, but certainly to the little guys. Them seems to fall into the cracks and are forgotten about, maybe not on purpose, but it happens.

I do not believe, for me, that I will order from them again just because I do not want the hassles that come from getting my order on track.

I do not know what this company will do for the future, but something has to change and quick. I know that they are an advertiser on here and we want to support our supporters, but at what cost?

Good luck

[reddevil76]

$15 for a swatch is kinda ridiculous. Springfield leather shipped 4 sides plus a handful tools & hardware from theirs to Portland for only $25 shipping.

Of the sponsors of this site, I have contacted not only Springfield but also RJF leather. RJF replied promptly, and offered to send swatches. But I informed him that I am in Singapore, and we both agreed it is too costly for him to send me swatches. It was kind of him to offer nevertheless.

In end I went with Springfield because I needed some Tandy stuff, yet I also wanted the Hermann Oak from them. So when they agreed, for the Tandy stuff, to honour the prices that I would gotten from my elite membership at Tandy's, it sealed the deal. Everything was fuss free, and Jill whom I was handed over to finalise the order was tip top on service as well.

[StevenSiegel]

Unfortunately, I ordered from them 3 times in the past year or so. One of the three orders went fairly well and the other two were total failures! They were not moving at the time of one of these orders and they phones were not being attacked either. It seems that this is a 'one man' operation over there and that man has been unfortunately busy with personal problems as would any one in his situation. When this happens, well business will suffer, maybe not to the big guys who order tons of stuff, but certainly to the little guys. Them seems to fall into the cracks and are forgotten about, maybe not on purpose, but it happens.

I do not believe, for me, that I will order from them again just because I do not want the hassles that come from getting my order on track.

I do not know what this company will do for the future, but something has to change and quick. I know that they are an advertiser on here and we want to support our supporters, but at what cost?

Good luck

Dear Sir,

This is Steven Siegel. I do not hide behind another identity.

When I am wrong I am man enough to admit it and rectify the situation. Maybe that is why you feel this is a one man shop as I have been very busy correcting errors and taking personal responsibility.

HOWEVER,

You have stated that you have purchased from us 3 times in the past year or so......

I have looked up your orders and found the following>>>>>

THESE ARE ALL OF YOUR ORDERS

1) You purchase on 5/2/09 for $145.00 of Ellis Barnes Basic Tool Set (Was this in the past year or so??) The value of this item was approximately $400. It was sold at a loss to introduce leatherworkers to GOOD STAMPING TOOLS. This was Ellis's idea. You returned the entire set AT OUR EXPENSE and we replaced it. There was nothing wrong with the product, THIS IS BAD SERVICE?

2) On 5/26/09 you won a contest from us and you were given 25 dollars credit. I guess this is just part of BAD SERVICE

3) On 5/24/10 you purchased 2 sides of drum dyed louis vuittonleather at less than 1/2 of what this Billion dollar corporation pays for the SAME leather. You did not know how to use the leather because of your skill set. You returned the leather at OUR EXENSE. Is this bad service because you do not have the skill set to use better leather?

4) On 6/29/10 you purchased a few natural double shoulders. You kept this. I guess you know how to work with natural colored leather which is basically 'crust".

Have you ever heard of Diogenes??? You won't find a company in this industry that is more straight than the one that you just slandered.

Edited January 19, 2011 by StevenSiegel

[Johanna]

What we have here is a classic case of a good company that had a bad year. Steve Siegel has been very honest about the difficulties he's had, and has taken steps to correct the problems. I can't believe that forty years of good reputation can be forgotten so quickly because of one crummy year. I admire Steven Siegel for his honesty and integrity. He has tried to come out with innovative products (like the slaughter-free leather) and has sponsored contests, giveaways, and some pretty good deals that he was able to pass on to his customers. He also regularly visits the board and offers his knowledge, despite his busy schedule. Not many CEOs would bother with "the little guys", but Steven has always had time to answer questions.

So things haven't been great at Siegel of CA last year. The boss has vowed changes and is working to resolve any remaining issues. If they have the product you want, I think they deserve a second chance. I'm not saying that because they are a sponsor here- I'm saying that because I'm impressed with Steven's candor, and his commitment to his customers. If you had a bad experience, send him a PM and he'll do what he can to make things right with you. In all the correspondence and phone calls I've had with Steven over the years, I've come to respect him as a businessman, and a friend.

Johanna

[StevenSiegel]

Dear Sir,

This is Steven Siegel. I do not hide behind another identity.

When I am wrong I am man enough to admit it and rectify the situation. Maybe that is why you feel this is a one man shop as I have been very busy correcting errors and taking personal responsibility.

HOWEVER,

You have stated that you have purchased from us 3 times in the past year or so......

I have looked up your orders and found the following>>>>>

THESE ARE ALL OF YOUR ORDERS

1) You purchase on 5/2/09 for $145.00 of Ellis Barnes Basic Tool Set (Was this in the past year or so??) The value of this item was approximately $400. It was sold at a loss to introduce leatherworkers to GOOD STAMPING TOOLS. This was Ellis's idea. You returned the entire set AT OUR EXPENSE and we replaced it. There was nothing wrong with the product, THIS IS BAD SERVICE?

2) On 5/26/09 you won a contest from us and you were given 25 dollars credit. I guess this is just part of BAD SERVICE

3) On 5/24/10 you purchased 2 sides of drum dyed louis vuittonleather at less than 1/2 of what this Billion dollar corporation pays for the SAME leather. You did not know how to use the leather because of your skill set. You returned the leather at OUR EXENSE. Is this bad service because you do not have the skill set to use better leather?

4) On 6/29/10 you purchased a few natural double shoulders. You kept this. I guess you know how to work with natural colored leather which is basically 'crust".

Have you ever heard of Diogenes??? You won't find a company in this industry that is more straight than the one that you just slandered.

This is Steven Siegel, again.

It is the AM.

I sincerely apologize to the person that I wrote to for anything which indicated, hostility or anger. This is unprofessional and unwarranted. I hope that my apology is accepted.

[TroyWest]

What we have here is a classic case of a good company that had a bad year. Steve Siegel has been very honest about the difficulties he's had, and has taken steps to correct the problems. I can't believe that forty years of good reputation can be forgotten so quickly because of one crummy year. I admire Steven Siegel for his honesty and integrity. He has tried to come out with innovative products (like the slaughter-free leather) and has sponsored contests, giveaways, and some pretty good deals that he was able to pass on to his customers. He also regularly visits the board and offers his knowledge, despite his busy schedule. Not many CEOs would bother with "the little guys", but Steven has always had time to answer questions.

So things haven't been great at Siegel of CA last year. The boss has vowed changes and is working to resolve any remaining issues. If they have the product you want, I think they deserve a second chance. I'm not saying that because they are a sponsor here- I'm saying that because I'm impressed with Steven's candor, and his commitment to his customers. If you had a bad experience, send him a PM and he'll do what he can to make things right with you. In all the correspondence and phone calls I've had with Steven over the years, I've come to respect him as a businessman, and a friend.

Johanna

I think you said this very well Johanna. My brother and I have done business with Siegel for many years. We have never had a bad experience. We will certainly continue to do business with them.

Troy West

[whinewine]

And likewise, we have never, ever been treated poorly by Mr Siegel in the years we have been dealing with his company. And we are a very small business, in relation to some of his other clients, and yet we are treated fairly, equally and consistently. If something is wrong, THEY fix it. If I make something wrong, I fix it. That's how it should be. Professional. They are one of two companies I whole-heartedly recommend for leather.

I try to mind my manners and stay out of these types of discussions, but this seems to go on and on and on...

It's so unfortunate that some people subscribe to the philosophy "ya jist gotta say somthin', no matter HOW stupid"... It's like a bunch of rabid dogs trying to tear an injured animal apart, each one trying to out-do the last with nastiness, no matter how vicious. It's just a shame. And, btw, Mr Siegel's reply was, under the circumstances, apropos.

russ

[dirtclod]

I have bought quite a bit from Siegel's over the years without any problems and all of the sales people i have talked to have answered my questions and if they didn't know they found out. In my book that's great service and i appreciate it !!

Edited January 19, 2011 by dirtclod

[Frank]

I'm not sure if I should jump in on this or not but here goes. I've ordered from a lot of different companies over the years, some with excellent service and some with less than stellar.

If you take a look at my single post on here when I complain about service, the name of the company was never mentioned. I did this for a couple of reasons. There is a great possibility that many people on here are friends with the person I bought stuff from. If I mention names then I make enemies in both directions.

Now it could be that this company has a great track record and somehow I slipped through the cracks. It's definitely a possibility. If someone wants to talk about it personally then it's between them and I who I relay this information to, not a whole forum. FYI, it wasn't Siegel!! It causes distress and a lot of grief for all parties involved and sheds unwanted light on an already bad situation.

Now with this forum being dedicated to leatherworkers, you are going to hear bad things about companies a lot quicker than any other place since we are a small tight knit group. Could it be that the 5,6,7,8,9,10 or whatever people who complained about the service are part of the .0001% who have had issues compared to all of the other thousands of satisfied customers? ABSOLUTELY!!

Chalk it up as a bad experience and either keep trying or go to another supplier. Someone sooner or later will make you happy with their service unless you are the .0001% of the population that can never be made happy. Believe me, I have dealt with a few.

I think it's really time to move on before anything else bad comes out of this topic.

Frank

[Art]

I have been dealing with Siegel for years. They have made a couple of mistakes, one botched tool order, and a skin damaged in packing (hard crease). These were both rectified to my 200% satisfaction, with just a phone call, two perfect skins came in the next order (and I got to keep the one that was bad, and to eliminate any confusion the tools were shipped direct from CSO).

I have made a lot of holsters and belts from those "crust" double shoulders Steve mentioned, so don't let the term "crust" make you think they are crap; they cut well, dye well, machine stitch well, and finish looking great.

I have not ordered from Steve in over a year because of his shipping policy. In the past, shipping was free if you kept your order above $75, it did not matter of it was on sale or from regular stock. I tend to mix orders, some things from the regular inventory, and some things on the sale lists (weekly specials, year-end, whatever), so when I read the special shipping instructions, they lost a customer. But I watch the specials, and when I see the old shipping policy, I'll order again, because they are a good and honest company.

Art

[StevenSiegel]

I have been dealing with Siegel for years. They have made a couple of mistakes, one botched tool order, and a skin damaged in packing (hard crease). These were both rectified to my 200% satisfaction, with just a phone call, two perfect skins came in the next order (and I got to keep the one that was bad, and to eliminate any confusion the tools were shipped direct from CSO).

I have made a lot of holsters and belts from those "crust" double shoulders Steve mentioned, so don't let the term "crust" make you think they are crap; they cut well, dye well, machine stitch well, and finish looking great.

I have not ordered from Steve in over a year because of his shipping policy. In the past, shipping was free if you kept your order above $75, it did not matter of it was on sale or from regular stock. I tend to mix orders, some things from the regular inventory, and some things on the sale lists (weekly specials, year-end, whatever), so when I read the special shipping instructions, they lost a customer. But I watch the specials, and when I see the old shipping policy, I'll order again, because they are a good and honest company.

Art

Hi Art,

This is Steve Siegel.

Thank you for the kind words.

Our shipping policy has not changed. We still guarantee our leather with FREE RETURN FREIGHT.

Any order shipped in USA (continental) which is over $75 is shipped FREE with occassional exceptions which we have had for many years. The two exceptions are:

1) From time to time we will offer merchandise on sale where freight is not included for that particluar item.

2) Every year we have our end of year special where we drop our prices substantially on many items, but we have different terms for THESE SALE ITEMS ONLY

A ) In order to purchase any items from End of Year Sale, the total order (which can be a mixture of any of our items) must be $150.

B ) There is a freight charge for the End of Year Sale items

The sale with the terms can be viewed at: http://www.siegelofc...910/121410c.htm Please feel free to contact me should there be any question at siegel.leather@gmail.com or 800.862.8956

[GAP]

Let me join in the bunch of highly satisfied customers of Siegal Leather!

I'm just a small time artisian who makes a few highly customized goods on a part time basis. Siegals Leather, has always been more than happy to assist me in whatever way they can.

I've appreciated doing business with them, and will continue!

[King's X]

"This is Steven Siegel. I do not hide behind another identity."

Neither do I, but this is a forum where you are listed by an advatar title. This forum is well aware of who I am and obiviously you were able to find me! Whether the Admin provided my information or you received it elsewhere. So, sir, who is hiding? Now, I joined this forum as a way to "learn" and "share" with others "openly" about our craft. Your company is not the only vendor that has had the displeasure of not meeting up to the expectations of our forum members. This is nothing new, but we as members have this avenue to share our thoughts and experiences. Ultimately, it will be the responsibility of each buyer to beware. I have had much better success with some of your competitors where other members have had the opposite experience. But things happen!

"When I am wrong I am man enough to admit it and rectify the situation. Maybe that is why you feel this is a one man shop as I have been very busy correcting errors and taking personal responsibility."

Obiviously, this statement is correct by the emails that I have received explaining the issues that have plagued your company and I applaud you for the notifications. I said that it "seems" or would appear that you were a one-man operation since you are front man, but we all know this is not the case. I would think (and I am not telling you how to run your business) that listening and making the necessary plans in motion to correct issues is what needs to be done. Not going after your current or previous customers for imparting their experiences with others. But this is your decision to make and you have made it.

"So let me correct your "order information" from my end!"

I find this statement Interesting in that you are commenting from your end. Or is it really from your "order" records. I am responding from personal & direct involvement to include notes on my receipts.

"You purchase on 5/2/09 for $145.00 of Ellis Barnes Basic Tool Set (Was this in the past year or so??) The value of this item was approximately $400. It was sold at a loss to introduce leatherworkers to GOOD STAMPING TOOLS. This was Ellis's idea. You returned the entire set AT OUR EXPENSE and we replaced it. There was nothing wrong with the product, THIS IS BAD SERVICE?"

I did purchase this tools that you stated "just arrived!" When I received my tools, ALL not one or two, but all were rusted on the shaft and face! Not fully, but definately 'red' in color. Yes, I returned them and a new set arrived with slight signs of rust, but after few calls to others, I cleaned them and decided not to return them. Yes, they were a good deal! Bad service? I measure my experience by the OVERALL experience not by one part of the process.

"On 5/26/09 you won a contest from us and you were given 25 dollars credit. I guess this is just part of BAD SERVICE"

Oh, we will not even touch this one right now!

"On 5/24/10 you purchased 2 sides of drum dyed louis vuitton leather at less than 1/2 of what this Billion dollar corporation pays for the SAME leather. You did not know how to use the leather because of your skill set. You returned the leather at OUR EXENSE. Is this bad service because you do not have the skill set to use better leather?"

I love this one! Louis Vuitton leather, hummmm, it was touted to me by one of your workers as chestnut colored veg-tan!! I specifically told your lady that took my order what my intended use was and I was told this "veg-tan" would work out well. Prior to ending my call, I asked your employee if this leather will carve well since all I had was the photograph in your Friday Special and I was told yes. When I received it, it was not initially used so it sat in the corner waiting its turn. After all, why did I need to check it out; all of my questions were answered on the phone by your employee! When I did open it, I realized what was sent to me. When I informed your company, I was told that I was only able to get a substitute credit. So I returned your "Louis Vuitton" leather and received a credit back later, which leads me to the next purchase below.

"On 6/29/10 you purchased a few natural double shoulders. You kept this. I guess you know how to work with natural colored leather which is basically 'crust'."

This purchase was something that your employee offered to me after my original request for another set of leather could not be filled or sold out. I guess this has been my luck. Because I was not able to physically select my leather in person, I have no choice but to go off seller's recommendations for my needs, as basic as they are even at my crafting level! After all, this is a hobby for me and I have never claimed to be a professional. Imagine what reply that would have solicited. The multiple phone calls and conversations with your employee to include one with an older gentlemen, I assumed was you, to complete this order and end the suffering of the previous one was not worth going through again. No matter how cheap the "crust"is!

Again, as I stated in my original post, for me I do not have the time to hand hold the processing of my transactions.

"Have you ever heard of Diogenes???"

I am a man of basic knowledge plus I am not of Greek decent, so I would not expect to know about Diogenes.

"You won't find a company in this industry that is more straight than the one that you just slandered."

Mr. Seigel ~ I am sure to many of your loyal customers believe you are, I do not doubt this statement up to the point that you label me a slander. As you read my responses, you will see that my facts are not malicious nor false in claim. Especially, when these orders were initiated, processed and concluded between me and several of your employees, of course, except for you. Interesting huh?

Now, the post patrol may stop this posting, but since I was basically asked out, I should have the ability to have my reply posted! Either way, this will end here. Mr. Siegel, you can remove me from your emails and delete my account information. This is still my decision right?