Kate Spade Kindle Covers

[Johanna]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ref=pe_70060_17361330_pe_06/?ASIN=B000HBXZXG

That's a "Kate Spade Kindle Cover" at $125. No hand carving, no exotic inlay- but it does have the designer logo on the back. It appears to be chrome tanned leather on a fiberboard stiffener. No place to store the cord. For $125???? And would you be interested in some Florida swampland, too?

So I started to play with a pencil and came up with a veggie tanned outside, lined with goat or sheep and only one pocket, not a wallet. Then I thought it would be cool if it closed magnetically- just snap it shut. I like lacing, but it adds bulk, and it usually just used to hide raw edges. I can fix that. Total cost in materials for this project is maybe $15, but I can get what I need out of the scrap bin. I haven't been seriously motivated to go in the shop for a long time, but $125 for a mass produced imported designer Kindle Cover-

It would be easy to justify paying twice that for a carved one. We all know that. But how many people will plunk down the money and buy the Kate Spade one? thousands? millions? I guess it's a great profit, if you can get it! Maybe I'll try to decorate mine, or get my kids to do it. I can have 10 or 20 of them out of the scrap box, if I want. Mine will not be flimsy or have stitches rip out. And I sure am not paying $125 for a Kindle cover.

Johanna

[Spinner]

That's crazy. I love how 'designers' spin things too:

Special design details include kate spade new york logo embossed on the back cover and the brand's signature "give it a whirl" lining.

Um, it's called poke-a-dot.

[skipj]

I think I mentioned this book before: "Deluxe: How Luxury Lost Its Luster". It tells how luxury goods went from quality to mass produced products with the label not the quality bringing a high price.

SkipJ

Edited November 3, 2010 by skipj

[Johanna]

The polka dot interior reminded me of the Gateway boxes computers come in. But yes, another example of the spin used to fool the public into thinking they are getting "value". Cloth is cheaper than leather. Like I said, i could justify spending 3 or 4 times that much if, for example, Kevin King made it or Bob Park carved it, but that kind of money for imported not-very-well-made junk- HA! They will never get it out of me. I wouldn't pay $20 for that cover and I don't care whose logo it was. Inferior workmanship and materials is still junk no matter what the tag reads or what it costs.

But they are selling them- that's what we have to learn from. Why are those junky covers selling so well? Is it the designer tag? Is it because Amazon promotes them? Is it because they have $3 invested in each unit and are laughing all the way to the bank? If they sold them for $10 each, I wouldn't have started this thread.

But they are getting $125 each! How can we, the custom leatherworkers, convince the people wealthy enough to buy things like Kindle Covers to buy from us? The price of the final product is actually not a factor. We could build a smilar case for less that $10 + whatever time spent customizing it. Kate Spade has maybe invested $3 per unit? Sound about right? So how do we get the business? Most of us can build a better case than that and maybe even afford to compete in price, so why aren't our phones ringing instead of Amazon's? Something to think about today.

And we can be glad we'll never pay $50 for an eyeglass case cover made out of plastic, too! I also saw an ugly partly-leather purse with a poor design and bad hardware on sale at Penney's this weekend for "only" $150. It's made so badly I wouldn't buy it for Janie at Wally World for $10, My local Penneys will sell dozens of these purses. How can we get the "prestige" of the designer labels? We have quality and customization down pat, but how do we educate the customer that we have good prices and better quality than the factories overseas, and to call us first? Should we all put "Made in America" in our advertising campaigns? What can the custom leather industry do to educate the public and get a share of the dollars currently being spent on mass produced imported stuff?

Anyone have any ideas?

Johanna

[King's X]

Interesting!

[BAD HIDE]

Basically, there's a few things wrong here: Some people will buy whatever Kate Spade makes - this goes for handbags, shoes, kindle covers, you name it. She's an international designer, we're not. Some people drop lots of money on things just to say they spent $125 for a kindle cover, and here is where Kate Spade is competing with you. If you make a better product or nicer design than she does, it's possible to snatch some business away from her, but so is every other international designer with sweatshops churning them out and stores to sell their goods. And there's people like you and me, who'd never spend that much for a cover - so we go and get the $15 one, and it lasts as long as the kindle does - which isn't very long. Actually, I'd never get a kindle anyway - books aren't that heavy, don't need batteries and I can drop them plenty of times without breaking.

It is pretty crazy when you stop and think about it. But in the handmade business, it's all about finding the customer willing to spend a little more for something that's unique and high quality. Selling on Amazon isn't something I originally considered, but it's possible.

Edited November 3, 2010 by BAD HIDE

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

$ pure and simple. That is how you get in on that market. They probably have an advertising, marketing budget in the millions. The only way to get your item noticed is letting everyone know that you are making them. So, how do you do that? Magazine advertising, TV advertising, Google ads, etc which all cost $$$$$. Now a slower way is to just make your items and sell them locally, and hope that they create enough buzz with the customers to create enough demand that you can start charging more. You need to be able to sell YOURSELF as well as the product that you are making.

The other thing is that there are many people with no artistic talent at all, and they are willing to pay for what they cannot make themselves. If it wears out, who cares? Just throw it away, and get a new one. I think a lot of people have grown up with so many disposable goods that they don't expect anything to actually last that long.

I am flabbergasted at what some purses, and women's designer shoes sell for.

If you get some time read Longaberger. It is the story of Dave Longaberger, and how he took a dream of handmade baskets, and turned it into a $1 billion dollars in sales company in 25 years.

[Spence]

In addition to all the other suggestions, I have thought about adding "Numbered Limited Edition" to something, jack the price up, sell 100 and go on to the next project.

PT Barnum said it best "There's a sucker born every day"

My Dad said it 2nd best "There's an a** for every seat"

[ferret]

$ pure and simple. That is how you get in on that market. They probably have an advertising, marketing budget in the millions. The only way to get your item noticed is letting everyone know that you are making them. So, how do you do that? Magazine advertising, TV advertising, Google ads, etc which all cost $$$. .

That about sums it up. Some time ago the marketing/advertising firms realised that the product is irrelevant, what they are really selling is another by product of the meat industry, the one that comes out before the animal is converted to meat and hides.

[dirtclod]

This country has turned in to a whole who's name are you wearing instead of i got a quality product for my money. I had a guy come in the shop one day wanting a billfold patched. I told him i could fix because it was made out of plastic. Well he came ungluded and said i was a lier. That is was a some body's name brand. That it cost $500.00 and came from NYC. My answer was so what. It's still made out of plastic !!

It's the same thing with Harley branded things. Customers would come in and want motorcycle chaps and want to know if they were as good as Harley branded chaps. I would tell them mine were better. That they were made out of one piece of leather not several pieces sewed togeather. Their reply was Harley makes these and they have to be better just because of the name. People are so eat up with the DUMB A$$ you can't explain something simple to them like that these big companys sell the rights to use their name to some company that's going to use the cheapest materials and labor they can to produce the product. The big company makes money off of their name and don't have to do a thing.

Even when i told people that if Harley made all of the things that are sold with Harley on them their wouldn't be room enough room to park in Wisconsin because it would be one big factory that covered the whole state. Just like that guy says " You can't fix STUPID !! "

[gary]

Interesting all round.

I've just had a request for a matching diary cover, a portfolio cover and a wallet. The customer says he can get all these from high-end shops in London but wants handmade and unique. The kind of customer I like.

In contrast, I've also had two speculative e-mails from a top-end designer wanting 'samples'. No names so no pack-drill but this is a designer-label fashion house who wanted, initially, samples of braided dresses which is out of my league and then, when I told them so, they wanted examples of leather accessories. No specifics, no outlines, no guidance at all and most obvious - no designs to work to. Now, I can see that a small producer could spend quite some working out some nice accessories and making up samples. The top designer then basically gets all that work to display with no design input and, after slapping their designer label on it, hikes the price up by putting a few zeroes at the end and the small guy gets zip. And I can't see the big guy putting my label on his display.

Perhaps the designer doesn't want to give away his designs in a cut-throat industry but I see no protection for the small guy who could invest a lot of effort, resources and time to provide free design input to a mega-bucks fashion house.

I've also just repaired a 'leather' belt for a relative who had bought a Calvin Klein or similar (I forgive him - the relative, not Calvin Klein or whoever it was). Shiny plastic, poorly finished, machine stitched, probably cost three times what I'd charge and lasted nearly two weeks before needing a repair. And the consumer goes back for more of the same. Maybe I should change my middle names to Calvin Klein Christian Dior Gucci Prada etc so my maker's stamp could be all things to all men.

On the positive side, given the size zero models we have, I wouldn't use much leather making a dress or three. On the negative side, I'd have to use at least 1 square foot of leather for the maker's stamp.

Gary

[CitizenKate]

I think name brand designers are always on the lookout for people who do work they would like to include in their products. I've done some business with a couple of them, now, who purchased samples. One saw my web site, and another found me on Etsy.

But at the end of the day, I don't think they can afford us, even if they charge 10 times the amount for the item that we would normally sell it for. I believe it's probably because what they are really selling is the marketing itself. They put all their money into marketing and very little into the manufacture of the product. Even as much as they charge for something, their profit margin isn't as high as you might guess, but they sell a lot more.

On the other hand, most of us either can't afford the kind of marketing they do to creates the mass illusion that is their designer image, or don't have the marketing savvy. Personally, I wouldn't market my products that way even if I did have the savvy and the money, because I believe in selling something that is truly of value, rather than just a bunch of marketing hype. I have a feeling a lot of you feel the same way about it.

I still think there are a few things we can and should do to improve our images as independent makers, though, without spending a lot, and without compromising how we represent ourselves. Put a little more effort into well-designed packaging and tagging. Think of the packaging as part of the product. Take a critical look at the channels you are using to get your product seen, craft fair displays, product literature, etc... Do they look professional, or amateur? Do you have quality images of items you make, or just snapshots? If you have customers telling you what they got was much better than what was pictured, it's probably a sign that you could charge more for your work if you produced better images of it. You can improve them a ton without spending a lot. These all might seem like little things, but if you don't think they matter, think again.

Kate

[gary]

Just had a thought and checked the top designer's e-mail. Doesn't want accessory samples made up, just wants images.

Am I paranoid or rightly suspicious?

Gary

[dirtclod]

Gary i belive your a 100% right, cause it sure sounds like they just want to see your ideal and then claim it.

I got a email the other day wanting to buy some things in bulk and they wanted to know the prices of what i make. I told them the price range and all they wanted to order was the highest priced item and they didn't even know what they were ordering. My first though in the very first email was it's a con and i was really sure after the second email that it's a con. Their going to pay me a with a stolen credit card, fake money order or do a charge back. I left it alone.

[gary]

Dirtclod, makes me feel better to know I'm not just a bit paranoid.

I've found the custom oredering helps as you have to have a dialogue with the customer and, if they're trying to rip you off, they generally haven't got the patience to send e-mails back and forth answering questions - they just want enough information to get their hands on your money.

But, back to the original thread, sort of, I've always admired (in a jealous kind of way) those companies that put their huge logos on items and the customer pays well over the odds for the item and then walks around as an advertisement for the company and actually pays for the privilege. The advertising exec who thought of that was having a really good day.

Gary

[jimmy eng]

I am a fashion designer (I have my own clothing label and I also do work in costume design) and what a lot of people don't understand is that it's about selling an 'aspiration', the lifestyle/image of what the customer wants to have or relates to. The companies that fit the image of what the customer is looking for will get the profits and having a lot of media exposure helps a great deal. What you're buying is the name a majority of the time.

To 'play' in this fashion field you've got to understand that it's all business, a lot is marketing, when it comes to the bigger companies very little is the design itself. The smaller independant business can have an edge in the market by focusing in on design as the selling point, that's a big advantage against the large businesses as it would be hard to sell a name no one knows.

So to use Kate Spade and any leather worker as an example, if you're familiar with Kate Spade the brand, what image comes to mind when you hear the name? See it from a business marketing point of view, no personal judgements. Can you see how that they've got products selling on Amazon? Can you see who would buy their products? Now envision yourself or some who works with custom leather craft. There's a big difference in the market between the two. When I think of leather craft, some words I think of are country, old fashioned, craft, tradition, labor, care, forgotten. To a mass market, craft has a slightly 'negative' connotation because you would associate it with what kids do at school or grandmas knitting. And country does get made fun of. And also in the end, the product has to look good and to an average consumer who doesn't know about making anything, they go by visual presentation and information given to them (word by mouth, websites, catalogue). If a bag looks like it came out of a barn, who would want that? Certainly not a Kate Spade kind of person but a local country person probably would, not everyone understands what you have or what it takes.

So use what you have and what you know and play by the guidelines of your target market. Use descriptive words like 'handcrafted' instead of 'handmade', it sounds more special. Use 'heirloom quality' to describe somethings longevity, because it's about a product that fits into a customers lifestyle/image. It's seldom ever about selling something based on the product alone (like a forklift for example), it needs a story if it's about fashion.

The best example of a leather worker that broaches into a niche market (I just found their website last week) would be barrettalley.com. I think he/they has the perfect business model for this industry if you want to have a broader audience. The site explains why they do things the way they do, what making a leather good takes, what materials they use and how they use it without going into specific details, it justifies their prices. The average person usually won't want to read that/can't understand specific details/terminology and it's enough to keep a person interested and the goods interesting. They know who they're talking to.

Whew! Hope that helped somewhat in understanding the other side of the coin.

[Randy Cornelius]

Personally, I don't know what a Kindle is or who Kate Spade is so I guess I am happy being ignorante of both....

[jimmy eng]

Personally, I don't know what a Kindle is or who Kate Spade is so I guess I am happy being ignorante of both....

Edited March 26, 2011 by jimmy eng

[jimmy eng]

On a similar vein of topic, this Salvatore Ferragamo bag is very leather worker and commercial. http://www.bagsnob.com/2011/03/ferrragamo_saddle_bag.html

It's a saddle style bag with whipstitching on all edges and gold buckles, which I'm sure 80% of people on this website can make. It looks plain but in fashion terms it's 'understated' and whimsical and costs $1,990.

[CitizenKate]

To 'play' in this fashion field you've got to understand that it's all business, a lot is marketing, when it comes to the bigger companies very little is the design itself. The smaller independant business can have an edge in the market by focusing in on design as the selling point, that's a big advantage against the large businesses as it would be hard to sell a name no one knows.

So to use Kate Spade and any leather worker as an example, if you're familiar with Kate Spade the brand, what image comes to mind when you hear the name? See it from a business marketing point of view, no personal judgements. Can you see how that they've got products selling on Amazon? Can you see who would buy their products? Now envision yourself or some who works with custom leather craft. There's a big difference in the market between the two. When I think of leather craft, some words I think of are country, old fashioned, craft, tradition, labor, care, forgotten. To a mass market, craft has a slightly 'negative' connotation because you would associate it with what kids do at school or grandmas knitting. And country does get made fun of. And also in the end, the product has to look good and to an average consumer who doesn't know about making anything, they go by visual presentation and information given to them (word by mouth, websites, catalogue). If a bag looks like it came out of a barn, who would want that? Certainly not a Kate Spade kind of person but a local country person probably would, not everyone understands what you have or what it takes.

So use what you have and what you know and play by the guidelines of your target market. Use descriptive words like 'handcrafted' instead of 'handmade', it sounds more special. Use 'heirloom quality' to describe somethings longevity, because it's about a product that fits into a customers lifestyle/image. It's seldom ever about selling something based on the product alone (like a forklift for example), it needs a story if it's about fashion.

Those are some useful insights, I totally agree with all of this (and I know Johanna will love your comments about the marketing use of the word "craft" - we've had a running debate about that ever since LW began). One of the challenges of an artisan is that we tend to get emotionally attached to what we make. That is good and bad at the same time. Part of the marketing appeal of something made by hand is that it was made with a lot of personal attention ("made with love"). But it also sometimes very often clouds our judgment as to what will sell in a given market, how to present it to that market (assuming any thought is given to the market to begin with), and how our work compares with other choices available to that same market. I see this all the time, and am probably guilty of it myself. After all, if we create a design we like, why shouldn't everyone want it?

More to write, but I'll have to try to come back to this later...

Kate

[simran]

But they are selling them- that's what we have to learn from. Why are those junky covers selling so well? Is it the designer tag? Is it because Amazon promotes them? Is it because they have $3 invested in each unit and are laughing all the way to the bank? If they sold them for $10 each, I wouldn't have started this thread.

But they are getting $125 each! How can we, the custom leatherworkers, convince the people wealthy enough to buy things like Kindle Covers to buy from us? The price of the final product is actually not a factor. We could build a smilar case for less that $10 + whatever time spent customizing it. Kate Spade has maybe invested $3 per unit? Sound about right? So how do we get the business? Most of us can build a better case than that and maybe even afford to compete in price, so why aren't our phones ringing instead of Amazon's? Something to think about today.

Anyone have any ideas?

Johanna

ain't it a hoot?? I've got a Nook. I was looking at these things in B&N & marveling at the prices paid for this stuff. WOW!!!

[WanderingStar]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but as we were talking about designers and brand names I thought I would stick this in and see what you all think.

I recently had an old friend approach me to do some custom work. He showed his boss who is the CEO of Blaque Tye in Las Vegas. It's a new clothing line, but they wanted me to do some prototype belts and I agreed so I put out the money and time to design and make the belts and now they are not sure if they want to pay as much as they cost. And considering I am giving them a sharp discount and only charging them 148 for four custom belts and buckles (this includes the cost of material) Does this seem fair to anyone else? Or should I tell them to forget it and sell them locally for twice what they are willing to pay.

Let me know if this is in the wrong area. I'm new to the boards so I haven't found my way around everything yet.