copyright infringement?

[prc77ro]

If I by a Tandy cell phone case, tool it with one of their template designs and sell it, is that ok? If I use that same cell phone case "as" a template, use my own leather that I buy from Tandy can I tool it and sell it with my own carving on it? I guess the question is where is the line drawn. I could cut a peice of leather for a cell phone case of my own design, but there may be someone out there that has already created one and Patented that design. Or I may have drawn something, carved it, and later someone sees what I have created, and sue me. So, basically, I just unknowingly infringed on someones art?. Like I said before, I have seen many things out there selling that are VERY similar that could have been "stolen" or just a coincidence. I am fairly artistic, and have done some cool drawings that I could use for leather. With just starting out I have friends that want to buy some of the stuff I've made for practice peices and I want to be clear on what I can and can't do. Perhaps I should start reading up on the "legalities" of this stuff. One of the wallets I did for my son was a "Jackass insignia, I didn't sell it, but thats what my kid wanted on his wallet. That would be concidered wrong, even tho it wasn't sold? This is only a hobby for me, but if I can sell some of the stuff I do for practice I'd like to, unless it turns into a pain in the a**.

Jay Fisher has done an entire page on his website about copywrite infringement as people have saved photos of his knife blanks from his website and tried to make copies and sell them for less. Any photos from a website wether stated or not are copywrited as soon as the website owner posts them. As far as leather patterns, if the design has been in the public domain, which the majority of sheaths, holsters, and cases of all types have there is no infringment. I had emailed Jay to ask his permission to use his leather sheaths as insperation for my own because i wasnt sure of what if any the ramifications could be if i just made one. His reply was that his retention methods and even the styles of his sheaths have been in the public domain for years and normally that type of stuff isnt patented or copywrited. As was stated before there is only so many ways to make a boat, and if the design has been around in the public domain then your not copying someone elses design your just using an exsisting pattern. You could make your own cell phone case by measuring and cutting, stitching or lacing but it would more than likely match someones somewhere, it doesn't mean you copied theirs. If you have the time go to Jay Fisher's website( just google him) and read his copywright page.

[Dano1122]

What about something like if i carved a red sox logo onto leather ? I could have it personal use , but couldnt use that logo on a leather project and sell it???

[mlapaglia]

What about something like if i carved a red sox logo onto leather ? I could have it personal use , but couldnt use that logo on a leather project and sell it???

What about something like if i carved a red sox logo onto leather ? I could have it personal use , but couldnt use that logo on a leather project and sell it???

Without permission you can not sell an item made with a protected sports logo. Some are copyrighted some are trademarked but you need permission to sell it. write and ask they may say yes or they may say no or they may say yes but you owe us X% of every sale. I do logo protection for a company and they allow sales of items that meet our requirements with their logo as long as an agreement is signed and the money is paid on a per unit basis.

Its different with each company so the key is to ask.

Michael

[okrounder]

This is old topic looks like, but, I do have a question if someone can reply. I see many leather stamps with the logo of a company on them. If you buy these stamps can you put the stamp on a piece you sell. I see these stamps made by Craftool all the time. I used to do poured ceramics, several molds were from a company that sold characters from a big company that had theme parks were used in many places.

thanks for any help.

[mlapaglia]

Owning the tool does not grant you a right to use the trademark. It also does not stop most people. Legally you need permission from the trademark holder to use a trademark on an item you sell. That being said, chances are you will not get a letter from their legal department unless you get really well known.

You decide.

[okrounder]

Does not the type of item sold for its intended use grant use of it? As so if I buy the stamp which is used to imprint the logo onto leather does not the seller of the item give this use to you you. As such the pattern you get from tandys is to be reused to sell the item? Would this hold true with a stamp you buy from them?

thanks

[mlapaglia]

Does not the type of item sold for its intended use grant use of it?

Unfortunately it does not unless the item is sold with written permission of the trademark holder that permission to sell items made with the stamp is granted.

As so if I buy the stamp which is used to imprint the logo onto leather does not the seller of the item give this use to you you. As such the pattern you get from tandys is to be reused to sell the item? Would this hold true with a stamp you buy from them?

The seller does not have the legal right to grant any permission. In the strict letter of the law no use is allowed without the direct permission of the trademark holder. Almost all Trademark holders allow a non commercial, i.e. not for sale, use of their trademark but reserve the right to revoke that permission at any time.

Just because you purchase a trademarked logo making item from a store does not, by itself, grant you permission to sell items made with that trademark.

FWIW I spent that last 10 years working with a division of a company, Toward the end my sole job was Trademark control and infringement. I am not a lawyer but all my communications were reviewed by a lawyer. I learned far more than I ever wanted to about trademark law.

thanks

[Handstitched]

G'day,

I guess the same would apply to 'beer can art' . As in, artists using beer cans to make assorted items from recycled cans.

This is one example:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_i_AovfzNXgQ/S1PM7IoScNI/AAAAAAABCs4/j7oAcwP3IJo/s400/asdfg.jpg

I also see what I do with leather as art, not just a way to make an income.( as we all do)

Of the many items I make from leather, I also put recycled beer can logos ( amongst others) into leather . ( see pics)

But would'nt that also be free advertising for the company?

And would they see it as a recycling initiative?.

Depends on the company I guess?

A long time ago, I did ask a beer company rep, of many beer brands ,in person, about using the beer bottle tops that I incorporate into leather, fridge magnets etc. (also a good way to use up scraps.)

He said quote: " we're fine with that, so long as you don't alter the logo" .

He seemed appreciative that many people use and sell their logos in an assortment of art & craft and wasn't concerned about the legal aspect.

But other companies may not be as understanding.

But I would have thought it would be very impractical and costly,( as well as bad PR) to issue legal letters to every single person across Australia that uses a logo or brand of some kind, in art craft etc. ??

HS

[mlapaglia]

This is a different thing. The original company produced logo is being re-purposed but retains its original logo format. This is acceptable under international Trademark laws as long as the logo is not being used to imply a product is by the trademark owner. You cant put Bud beer in a Coors bottle and sell it as Bud.

Most companies are forgiving to the small business concerns. Its when it gets to be big time that they have to act. Also if the logo violation is brought to their attention, no matter how small, they have to act in order to preserve the Trademark License.

Trademarks are one of the biggest headaches in any business. One thing to remember, some people from a company that say a logo use is ok may not have the authority to make that claim.

[Handstitched]

G'Day and thanks for the reply ,

Thats good to know because I'm just in the process of making some more as I sold some at the weekend.

I suppose I should really approach the companies to ask their permission out of courtesy , but if they say 'no',

I'd respect their decision of course, but I think I'd be quite upset

as I really enjoy making them......and they look good and people like them

All the best,

HS

HS

[LoneWolf1973]

Reading thru this I see allot of good advice. On the note of Tandy, I myself have talked to them and was told that once you bought the item (kit, craftaid, ect.) it is yours. There is no trademark on those kind of items. The guy that told me that may have been wrong but he has worked for Tandy for many, many years so I assume he knows what he is talking about there (plus he has given me plenty of good advise on the craft).

[jroberts3001]

Well if patterns are sold then I say there is no copyright infringement. For example if I buy a pattern from Tandy it becomes mine The copywriter releases their claim.

[Northmount]

Well if patterns are sold then I say there is no copyright infringement. For example if I buy a pattern from Tandy it becomes mine The copywriter releases their claim.

You may use the pattern as many times as you wish to make items to give away or for sale. You do not have the right to make and sell or give away copies of the pattern to others. That is what is copyrighted.

You will see some magazines that say you can make/build the items in magazines where patterns, drawings, instructions are given for your own personal use, but cannot sell the items. That is false, but they use it to try to reduce the quantity of goods in the same market as the original creator. Copyright does not limit the number of items constructed, given away, or sold that are based on that pattern.

Tom

[cardinal leather]

I was watching a Tandy video one night. I do not remember which one but George Hurst was doing the work on one of their kits or patterns. He said that you can use our patterns to make items for sale or use, and we encourage this, just do not claim it as your own. that is not an exact quote but pretty close to what he said.

[Art]

I was watching a Tandy video one night. I do not remember which one but George Hurst was doing the work on one of their kits or patterns. He said that you can use our patterns to make items for sale or use, and we encourage this, just do not claim it as your own. that is not an exact quote but pretty close to what he said.

Alright, I don't believe it. I have NEVER been able to watch a George Hurst video ALL the way through without falling asleep. If insomnia ever plagues you (when you get older I hope) just plug in George doing the airbrushing video. George (I have talked with him many times and even been to dinner with him at many shows when we were both a lot younger) is of the school that the audience will be able to more clearly understand if you speak s l o w e r. That or he gets paid by video runtime.

Art

[chuckrock44]

Here are some good examples of copyright infringement. I'm pretty sure that selling large quantities of these belt will get me into some kind of trouble?

[Northmount]

Here are some good examples of copyright infringement. I'm pretty sure that selling large quantities of these belt will get me into some kind of trouble?

Company names and logos are trademarks and are normally registered by the owner. There are interesting cases like Apple and Apple Corp. Apple had to license the use of Apple Corp's logo that they use.

Copyright is different than registered trademarks. But you can get in trouble for misappropriation of either.

Tom

[NVLeatherWorx]

And that trouble can come from the sale of ANY amount of a product that infringes upon the intellectual property of another without their permission; even one single item sale fits this violation.

[kiwican]

I can tell you that in my neck of the woods, that being Canada. stuff like this is always looked at as counterfeit, rather than copy right infringement. That makes it a Police issue and not a civil problem. The Police here have whole teams of folks raiding counterfeit operations. everything from batteries (yup) software, designer gear to Tee shirts

[25b]

Here are some good examples of copyright infringement. I'm pretty sure that selling large quantities of these belt will get me into some kind of trouble?

Like nvleatherworx said, sale of any amount of those (even one) can get you a cease and decist letter from the companies' legal department. They are required to take action to defend their copyright, trademarks, whatever...because if they don't, then they basically are giving up their claim to it, if that makes sense.

So...if anyone sends any of those companies a link to this thread, you could be contacted by them about it.

To me, it's not worth it so I don't make stuff like that.

Edited January 9, 2016 by 25b

[NVLeatherWorx]

And, as 25b has said, to protect myself from having to face any additional interruptions in service to my clients (as if there aren't enough already) I too do not accept any orders for anything that incorporates the legal logo, trademark, image, or any reference to any organization or entity that is commonly known to the public (NASCAR, NFL, MLB, Disney, Marvel, etc.) or known to be a legally registered company that has any obvious IP elements attached to them.

It isn't worth my having to sit in Court and defend myself, knowing full well that I will lose, just to make that neat wallet with the Incredible Hulk's fist or that cute little journal cover for a client's daughter who wants the characters from Frozen (or anything else along that line). They have gone through the trouble of creating it, designing the concept, marketing the identity, and everything else that goes with it, let them keep it.

[grimmlin]

I will admit that the things I'm working on, my very first projects, are very closely modeled after pictures I found online. I'm basically copying someone else's work (or trying to)...because having pictures to go by is helpful for me and I absolutely love the design and its simple enough for me to learn on. That being said, I would never try to sell something like that or claim I designed it even if I get comments on it. I would tell people I made it, but name the maker of the piece I've modeled it after. For all I know the designer is part of this forum even though this isn't where I found the pictures I'm using. I don't feel guilty about this, maybe I should, because I'm making it for me and my own use. Once I have my footing I'll be designing my own stuff.

[25b]

Ok, that's different...unless they have (or hace filed for) an actual PATENT on the design, there's really not any way they could go after you if you sold a similar item.

Anyway, as with all things on the Internet, it's best to check with an IP attorney as they can explain what we've tried to explain in this thread in more accurate legal terms...there are patents, trademarks, copyrights, etc. and each are very, very different things and have various rules on what exactly is protected with each.

There are people "around" that will try (wrongly) to say it's "illegal" to sell a copy of someone else's design of an item. In my research, I've found that whatever "design" is not protected if 1) they didn't apply for a patent and 2) they released that design "into the wild" by selling the item, posting pics on the Internet, etc. without having filed for patent protection.

But like I said, don't take my word for it...consult with an IP attorney...they'll tell you...

Edited January 19, 2016 by 25b

[catstamp]

I think this may be the correct place for this discussion.

I had fun making a field note cover for a friend of mine and posted it on facebook leather workers group and shortly incurred a comment that I shouldn’t lay claim to my work, design version because it was listed as a pattern for sale and copyrighted over a year ago. I am new to leather work, started about 6 months ago. I purchased some field note blanks and started laying out a pattern I thought my friend would use and enjoy. I didn’t go looking for examples past the Leathercraft Library and the Field Notes page. I posted when I was finished and then got slammed by a member of one of the forums. I have since gone to the internet and found the hundreds of examples of similar work. What have I done wrong?

[tboyce]

The only way I could see of getting around the use of a Harley insignia on a piece custom leather work would be to have the customer buy the item in question, supply it to you, and ask you to incorporate it into your leather work. You aren't getting any money for the Harley item, you aren't getting any markup in any way.

Harley could sue you of course. In America, you can sue anyone for just about anything. It's highly probable, though, that you could get that lawsuit thrown out.