Prefered Sewing Methods?

[Bryan M]

Just getting started in all this madness and I had a question about sewing methods. What is preferable? I know its a loaded question and its ment to be. I got the Tandy sewing awl yesterday and was practicing with it. It turned out a nice stitch IMO. I have a friend who showed me how to use this on a knife sheath he made. He doesn't use the chisels to make the holes. His method is a 1/16th inch drill bit in a drill press. I watched as he drilled all the holes for the sheath in a matter of minutes. It did not take a long time. He did use a spacing tool. I dunno what they are called, star wheel on a handle thingamabob. Then he used the sewing awl to stitch it all up. Start to finish it took less than 30 minutes work. Admitedly he's been doing this for a few decades and is an excellent knife maker.

I've been talking to the folks in the chat here and it seems most use the two needle method, which I admit mystifies me. I saw the video posted on the site about doing that and I have yet to get the needles and awl needed to do that system of stitching. I know where I can get some needles that will work. I don't know if there are any leather sewing stuff other than what little I've found localy. Which is minimal. Not to mention pretty over priced, considering what I've seen online. One of the problems of living in Central Alaska.

Any insight into the mysteries of hand stitching would be appreciated.

Bryan

Edited January 11, 2013 by Bryan M

[Dwight]

Using two needles makes for a "stronger" stitch, . . . in that if one side gets busted, . . . you can pull it out, . . . and the other thread will hold your product.

Using the single needle, . . . making a machine type stitch, . . . is faster, at least for me, . . . but if the stitch breaks, . . . the whole thing "can" pull out.

Personally, . . . I don't think it makes a tad to me, . . . I use a machine, . . . but even if I didn't, . . . I still put everything together with contact cement, . . . in many cases, . . . the stitches do more decorating than they do anything else.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Leela Valley Leather]

saddle stitch (two needle) for me gives a nicer result, used to drill out the holes but that removed too much material and left the stitching looking sloppy and half arsed.

[katsass]

FWIW from the grumpy old guy: Good hand (saddle) stitching takes some time and effort to be done properly. The little "sewing awl" from Tandy is not anything to be using to stitch with - except, maybe. as an emergency thing to repair canvas with. A good saddler's awl, (also called a stitching awl or diamond awl), two harness needles, and strong thread (I use only waxed linen) is about all that is absolutely needed. A gouge and an overstitch tool just make things nicer. The use of a 1/16" drill bit WILL make holes, albeit the holes that are generally too damned big, and refuse to close back up, which adds to the security of the stitch, and is integral to good saddle stitching. My suggestion is to pick up the book "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" by Al Stohlman, and learn to stitch the correct way. I don't suspect that your buddy's stitching looks a whole bunch like the hand stitching in this pic, and it certainly is not as sturdy as a good saddle stitch. Mike

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Edited January 12, 2013 by katsass

[immiketoo]

Hey Bryan, I have to second what Mike says here, and he is a master saddle stitcher. His work is a testament to the fact. However, there are lots of people who drill their stitch holes and I have yet to hear of any of their products breaking or coming apart. I know that the traditional method is stronger and I KNOW that the cosmetic results are far better based on my personal experience. Those are reasons enough for me to use the diamond awl and two needle method, and truthfully, there IS a reason that its been done that way for hundreds of years.

[Bryan M]

Ok well, I have to admit I feel somewhat chastised. But, that does not mean I don't value everyones input. If you google Mark Knapp Custom Knives you will see his work. I know he uses 65# stranded nylon fishing line for his thread and his knives all are able to take a beating. He makes mostly for an Alaska hunting market. He has won awards and been written up in many knife magazines. Some of the latest ones are mentioned on his site. His current production knife is a 1911 handled survival blade that has a survival kit in the 1911 handle. It was designed and made for the 100 year anniversary of the 1911.

I admit I don't know much about stitching leather. I'm primarily a blacksmith learning knifesmithing. I figured I would need to know how to make a good sheath at some point. I tend not to do things halfway. I am trying to learn to the best of my ability and will take the suggestions given. Just need to find the book and buy more tools now.

[electrathon]

When working with real thick leather (like on a knife sheath) I usually drill my holes with a very big sewing machine needle. The needle does not remove leather but pushes it to the side as the hole is opened up. I hold the needle in the drill press (turn it on), this keeps everything very striaght.

Strength of stitches is very critical in saddles, not near as big of a deal on a sheath that could almost be held togeather with proper glueing.

[immiketoo]

Ok well, I have to admit I feel somewhat chastised. But, that does not mean I don't value everyones input. If you google Mark Knapp Custom Knives you will see his work. I know he uses 65# stranded nylon fishing line for his thread and his knives all are able to take a beating. He makes mostly for an Alaska hunting market. He has won awards and been written up in many knife magazines. Some of the latest ones are mentioned on his site. His current production knife is a 1911 handled survival blade that has a survival kit in the 1911 handle. It was designed and made for the 100 year anniversary of the 1911.

I admit I don't know much about stitching leather. I'm primarily a blacksmith learning knifesmithing. I figured I would need to know how to make a good sheath at some point. I tend not to do things halfway. I am trying to learn to the best of my ability and will take the suggestions given. Just need to find the book and buy more tools now.

Dude, don't feel chastised. There are subtleties to this are that I don't even know about, and it takes years to understand some of them. And, frankly, just because your buddy, who is an amazing knife maker, showed you one way, you think its the way its done. I'd respect a guy like that's opinion too! Like I said earlier, there a zillion ways to do things, some better and some worse. We are here as a resource and you certainly dont have to do it the way I would.

As for buying more tools, THAT is my specialty. Nothing subtle about it Happy stitching!

[mikesmith648]

Same as what Mike2 said................But for the tool buying part.....I OWN that title

Mike......the tool whore!

[Matt S]

FWIW I'm slightly OCD about hand stitching. I like to use a pricking iron (NOT used as a punch), never stitch straight across a strap and only groove/recess when needed (maximises strength but mainly because I prefer the look). Thread is pure linen, hand rolled to whatever size needed and waxed with coad. I use a 1-1/2" harness awl and a pair of no4 harness needles, the smallest commonly found. FWIW I now find it quite easy to stitch 12/5 with even these tiny needles -- the trick is to get a good taper on each end, which IMHO can only be achieved hand-rolling from yarn. Pliers hardly ever needed. The other advantage of this is that you only need to keep one roll of yarn in stock, and can dye it any colour you like before waxing.

I used to have great difficulties hand stitching -- angled stabs, wobbly stitch, dead sailors and above all slow. So I read all I could. Stohlman's book is a good start but I learned plenty also from Ron Edwards and of course from many generous members here -- especially the old saddlers. I sharpened my awl (£3 blade and £1 handle, shortened and shaved to fit my hand), rolled a lot of threads, built a stitching clam, and practiced Then I practiced some more. I'm up to 3 stitches per minute on a very neat line, though there is still room for improvement.