How To Slow It Down...

[Hi Im Joe]

Hello guys and gals,

My father-in-law has a co-worker who services sewing machines as a hobby. I got the adler 67 up and running. My main concern now is the speed it runs at.

It's either hand cranked or just full bore insane. What are some cost effective ways to slow the thing down to a manageable level?

Are there speed reducer's available? Are they worth the investment or should I just bite the bullet and buy a servo motor?

Anybody have any DIY ideas as a stop gap measure while I get my funding in order to do it right?

Thanks again so much for sharing your expertise with me!

Joe

[Ferg]

Jo,

Just bite the bullet and buy a servo. You will pat yourself on the back every time you sew.

ferg

[Hi Im Joe]

Yeah, I think that's my eventual plan. My budget is just non-existent right now.

[Northmount]

Learn to slip the clutch. Takes some patience and practise. You can also do a search here for speed reducers and see what others have done to build there own ... If you are the handyman type. There are lots of posts here about various servo motors to. Look at comments by Wizcrafts.

Tom

[Hi Im Joe]

Yeah I can use the clutch. It's really the only way to do any detail type work. Its hand cranked or full bore. I want to figure out a better way to control the speed for safety's sake. I don't want a slip of my foot to result in sewing through my hand.

[pcox]

If you can get to the clutch disc rub some Vaseline on the disc.

[catskin]

If you can find a REALLY OLD clothes dryer some of them have a perfect speed reducer on them in the back. The one I found is a 2" pully on the side of a 10" pulley It runs on bronze bushings but with a bit of oil once in a while mine has run for 20 plus years. And its still going. I use mine with a clutch and motor.

Edited July 12, 2014 by catskin

[sinpac]

Hello guys and gals,

My father-in-law has a co-worker who services sewing machines as a hobby. I got the adler 67 up and running. My main concern now is the speed it runs at.

It's either hand cranked or just full bore insane. What are some cost effective ways to slow the thing down to a manageable level?

Are there speed reducer's available? Are they worth the investment or should I just bite the bullet and buy a servo motor?

Anybody have any DIY ideas as a stop gap measure while I get my funding in order to do it right?

Thanks again so much for sharing your expertise with me!

Joe

Joe,

Loosen the belt to where it is almost slipping. I know it sounds crazy but try it.

Chris

[Trox]

Hi Joe, you could start with changing out your motor pulley to a smaller one. Try a two inch pulley, that will slow it down allot. A speed reducer costs from 90 to 150$, a cheap Chinese servo is the same and you do not need both. Never put any oil or fat on a clutch disk, then you will damage it totally.

Technics to control clutch:

Make sure the chain/rod from the pedal goes to the last hole on the motors pitman arm (more pedal travel and more control). Take your shoes for better pedal control and put your right hand on the machines hand wheel to brake and slow it down.

Good luck

Tor

[Hi Im Joe]

Thanks everyone! I have a lot to think about.

Trox: I will adjust the pedal. I love going barefoot so taking my shoes off is the best news I've heard so far! The thing goes so fast I don't think I could brake it to slow it down. It would just keep on going like crazy. Maybe I am just afraid of it. But I don't think I could slow it down with my hand.

Right now the most successful method is to slip the clutch and hand crank the wheel.

[pcox]

Trox how long does it take to ruin the disc ? I put vaseline on my cork/rubber disc a long time ago and it hasn't failed yet. It will really take the grab out of it and it will still lock up solid to sew at full speed.

[Hi Im Joe]

So I tried to re-thread the thing and now I can't get the hook to take up the thread again. God its frustrating.

[dentat2]

another trick i used until i got the hang of my clutch. i put some styrofoam blocks under the pedal so i couldnt press it all the way down. that at least will keep it from running away from you too much

[Hi Im Joe]

another trick i used until i got the hang of my clutch. i put some styrofoam blocks under the pedal so i couldnt press it all the way down. that at least will keep it from running away from you too much

That's a freakin great idea. Definitely doing something like that.

Btw...I got it working again. Phew.

[Trox]

Hi Joe,

Your clutch plate might be used up and its possible to get replacements. The brake on these motors should kick in when you let of the pedal or heel the pedal (depended of how it is adjusted). I mostly replace my clutch motors with servos (Efka`s and one Cobra), but I still have a couple machines with Clutch/speed reducers. One of them is a new low-speed 4 pole 600 w clutch motor; this is a very good motor and its easy to control at slow speeds. I had others that are totally uncontrollable, so yours might be one like that. If you un hook the connection from the pedal, you can see how the brake engages. It`s adjustable on the pulley end of the motor. There might be two screws; one for the brake and another for the pitman arm`s return spring. Try out some different settings. To find out if your clutch needs a new friction plate, you better try a good one and see if its any different.

Hi Pcox,

its against my better knowledge to put oil/fat on a friction plate. I can`t tell you how much or when you damages it, only that you will loose friction. It will soak in to your plate and you never get it of again. Sometimes it will form a hard slippery surface and your clutch will start slipping. You needed it to slip a bit more and then took very little on. You succeeded against every advices, but personally I would not risk it.

Well, thats perhaps not that big a risk when people trow these after you now a days.

I have some old ones laying around, I could donate one if anybody locally needed one (V single and V, 3 Ph. They are to heavy to ship abroad)

Thanks

Tor

[Hi Im Joe]

Hi Joe,

Your clutch plate might be used up and its possible to get replacements. The brake on these motors should kick in when you let of the pedal or heel the pedal (depended of how it is adjusted). I mostly replace my clutch motors with servos (Efka`s and one Cobra), but I still have a couple machines with Clutch/speed reducers. One of them is a new low-speed 4 pole 600 w clutch motor; this is a very good motor and its easy to control at slow speeds. I had others that are totally uncontrollable, so yours might be one like that. If you un hook the connection from the pedal, you can see how the brake engages. It`s adjustable on the pulley end of the motor. There might be two screws; one for the brake and another for the pitman arm`s return spring. Try out some different settings. To find out if your clutch needs a new friction plate, you better try a good one and see if its any different.

Hi Pcox,

its against my better knowledge to put oil/fat on a friction plate. I can`t tell you how much or when you damages it, only that you will loose friction. It will soak in to your plate and you never get it of again. Sometimes it will form a hard slippery surface and your clutch will start slipping. You needed it to slip a bit more and then took very little on. You succeeded against every advices, but personally I would not risk it.

Well, thats perhaps not that big a risk when people trow these after you now a days.

I have some old ones laying around, I could donate one if anybody locally needed one (V single and V, 3 Ph. They are to heavy to ship abroad)

Thanks

Tor

Thanks for the tips! It is totally uncontrollable now. I'll have to take a look and see if I can adjust the brake. The motor is a Singer S-463161.

Here's a photo:

alackofcolor@gmail.com

[Trox]

Thanks for the tips! It is totally uncontrollable now. I'll have to take a look and see if I can adjust the brake. The motor is a Singer S-463161.

Here's a photo:

alackofcolor@gmail.com

Hi Joe,

yes I know them and I have a couple of them laying around too. Its very old and very weak. One Hp (horse power) is 746 watt and 1/3 HP is only 248 watt. Even if it was brand new thats not enough to power your machine true leather. It will struggle all the time and then be uncontrollable. You better find something in the range of 600 to 750 watt. I have a inexpensive Chinese Cobra digital servo motor on my Pfaff 345 machine, 145$. The Pfaff 345 is a medium triple feed in the same class as your Adler 67. (My Adler 67 now sold, sewed true 11 mm. bridle leather with that motor) The motor is more than strong enough with out any speed reducer.

Then you have the Family FESM-550 types of analog servo motors. I have seen them from 90 to 150$, I have not tried them because they do not come in 220V. However, I have heard good things about them. You will not find a cheap servo motors with perfect speed controls like on expensive Efka`s and Ho Sing motors. Then you get what you pay for, a Efka cost nearly ten times more too. With enough power the motor will always be more controllable, clutch or servo. I will echo what others have told you, buy your self a Chinese servo.Thats better than a clutch/speed-reducer, saves energy too. Read up on them in the forum, all the member dealer sell them.

Good luck

Tor

[Wishful]

Put a tennis ball under the pedal to slow it down some.

[Hi Im Joe]

Hi Joe,

yes I know them and I have a couple of them laying around too. Its very old and very weak. One Hp (horse power) is 746 watt and 1/3 HP is only 248 watt. Even if it was brand new thats not enough to power your machine true leather. It will struggle all the time and then be uncontrollable. You better find something in the range of 600 to 750 watt. I have a inexpensive Chinese Cobra digital servo motor on my Pfaff 345 machine, 145$. The Pfaff 345 is a medium triple feed in the same class as your Adler 67. (My Adler 67 now sold, sewed true 11 mm. bridle leather with that motor) The motor is more than strong enough with out any speed reducer.

Then you have the Family FESM-550 types of analog servo motors. I have seen them from 90 to 150$, I have not tried them because they do not come in 220V. However, I have heard good things about them. You will not find a cheap servo motors with perfect speed controls like on expensive Efka`s and Ho Sing motors. Then you get what you pay for, a Efka cost nearly ten times more too. With enough power the motor will always be more controllable, clutch or servo. I will echo what others have told you, buy your self a Chinese servo.Thats better than a clutch/speed-reducer, saves energy too. Read up on them in the forum, all the member dealer sell them.

Good luck

Tor

Thanks man! I've read a lot of threads on here about sewing machines and you offer great advice in them all. Thanks for taking the time to educate a noob.

[Trox]

Thank you Joe, you are welcome. Thats what this forum is all about, to help each other. I have learn allot here too.

Sometimes i wish members would be better to post about bad products, like faults on machines and tools. Its allot of good feedback here and not so much of bad ones. Often when somebody breaks the ice and complains about a product, many others follows with the same problem. In the mean time to many others buy that same faulty product. I have seen this a number of times here. Nobody gains on this, nor the seller or the customer. I think that in general Europeans complains more often than US Citizens. Or am I wrong.

Thanks

Tor

[Constabulary]

Morning Trox - seems you are an early bird too

@ Joe

I´d personally go with a new servo too. You can buy a smaller pulley and new clutch discs but you may find out that the motor is still too fast and you already have one of the "slower" types with 1725rpm.

I have used several different clutch motors and the worst to control was a Singer from the 1980´s. It is still floating around here - that was a beast with 2800rpm and an almost uncontrollable clutch. The best clutch motor I had was a Pfaff (made by WEG Germany) but nothing beats my current servo.

I have had 2 servos before I got my current one (which I really like). One arrived broke (well that can happen) and the other one had a poor needle positioning system and made an annoying "beeeeeeeeep" sound. The one I´m using is a JACK JK-563A1 with NPS but I figured I do not need a needles positioning system as I´m sewing rather slow so I can see where and when the needle will stop. But I don´t think the JACK motors are not available in the US.

I think the FESM-550 seems to be a good one - Wizcraft often recommends it in some of his post.

I remember there was one with a gear reduction (suffix GR) and I think It came from Toledo Sewing Machine Co. But I don´t know if it is still available.

I´d contact them for further details.

[Trox]

Good morning to you Constabulary, Joe's motor is from the 1880`ties not 1980 ties. No, but its a pre WW2 motor I think. Anyway, I have the same one in grey color too and thats even worse than the earlier black color one. I agree about the WEG motor, I had one of those too. I also have a good one from Kobold Germany, only 370 Watt single Ph but good control on it. It came with my Pfaff machine and really did not needed to be changed out. I had that Cobra servo laying around and some speed reducers so I changed it out. I often wondered about that Jack motor with position system, was it any good? did the needle position work on it?

Yes Wiz talked allot about that gear reduction motor, but suddenly I heard nothing more about them. Perhaps it turned out to have low quality gears in it?? I do not know. Anyway, it was not available in 220V. Europe have a "pretty strict" quality control on electrical products "CE", perhaps thats why many of the Chinese motors do not turn up here.

That FESM 550 look pretty low tech and simple, just what the Chinese electronics production is capable to manage today. Then again the pot meter on them was not a good quality, according to the topics about them. Thats not a big problem anyway.

Tor

[Constabulary]

@ Jack - sorry for "occupying" your thread

Trox, seems the Jack actually has a problem with the NPS at very slow speed. High speed worked. But with the speed reducer installed it seems that the synchronizer has some problems. I reported it to College Sewing and a new (improved?) synchronizer is on the way already. But I figured I don´t really need a NPS at slow speed because you really can see where your needles will stop so from my point of view the NPS makes sense for high speed sewing but for slow sewing it doesn´t make a difference if I have one or not. But I still would recommend this motor and I will buy one again but w/o the NPS as I don´t really need it.

I will update my review of the motor when the new synchronizer has arrived.

I think it always depends on your personal "sewing situation" whether a motor suits for one or not. I have tried a few and this is the first I`m really please with but have to admit it is the first I´m using with a speed reducer and it makes a big difference.

BTW - this was my 2nd Servo

www.ebay.de/itm/251326331365

and the NPS did not position the needle properly, it always made 1 or 2 stitches too much.

And it had this annoying "beeeeeeeep" sound + it made an different sound when it was positioning the needle. Seller said this will end after 30Hrs but it didn´t. Next problem was you can´t turn off the NPS. And buying the same motor w/o NPS was not an option because of the stupid sound.

So this and not having the money for an EFKA lead me to the Jack motor which even has much more power and I like it!

Edited July 13, 2014 by Constabulary

[needles]

Hi Joe

i put a 40mm pulley on the motor at first which really slowed things down, and of course when using a light right foot, but the real difference cam when i swapped my clutch motor with a machine engineer and a small amount of cash for one of his new serrvo units, works a treat now....

good luck, i prayed daily that i would finish the working day with all my digits intact before the servo arrived....

Al

[Trox]

Hi Constabulary, Well the NPS will not work properly with a speed reducer because of the extra gear and its belt slippage. Some digital servos have the synchronizer that only calculate belt slippage like new Efka`s. The motor has a so called community drive, the control-box gives the motor the distance to run and not the synchronizer. (The synchronizer is only there to calculate belt slippage on the specific machine pulley) Then the speed reducer will mess this up.

Then you have the old type of NPS motors with the position adjusted in the synchronizer, it will run with a speed reducer but not accurate. The belt slippage on the reducer will mess up the NPS timing and makes it miss the positions. Like when it miss down position with to many degrees it will return to up position and opposite. One solution that might work is to place the synchronizer on the speed reducer, I have seen that setup but do not know if it works perfect. Depended of the particular NPS motor construction you can have a error signal, some run inaccurate and some do not run at all.

Tor