dikman Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Which is what I said a few posts back.......so it must work. The parts list shows two grub screws holding the handwheel on, spaced around the wheel. If it still won't budge you could try tapping it GENTLY with a rubber/plastic hammer. Failing that it may need a pulley remover to exert some pull on it. As for the belt guard, in the parts manual it looks like you should still be able to change the belt without having to remove it. Art, you're a bit of a worry........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LumpenDoodle2 Report post Posted November 14, 2015 See, great minds think alike. ;-() Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Which is what I said a few posts back.......so it must work. The parts list shows two grub screws holding the handwheel on, spaced around the wheel. If it still won't budge you could try tapping it GENTLY with a rubber/plastic hammer. Failing that it may need a pulley remover to exert some pull on it. As for the belt guard, in the parts manual it looks like you should still be able to change the belt without having to remove it. Art, you're a bit of a worry........ Lol! You could just do what I do. Take a bit string, put it round the two pulleys, just like the belt, then measure its length. I can guarantee from personal experience, it is idiot proof. :-() I did do the string test guys. Still came up short: My string laid flat is measuring about 18 in long, so that's the size belt I'm looking for. But if I'm taking Toms instruction (correctly) and another member who says he has a 40 inch belt, I'm suppose to times my 18x2 which would equal 36. The old belt from the clutch is about that size and when I placed it its flopping all over because it's too big... Like why would I buy a belt that much bigger when I can see that it's already not gonna work. Please excuse my ignorance. Never done this stuff before. Getting frustrated cuz now I have to do math to figure this out and I hate math. Also, I can get the belt in with the thing on there it's just difficult. Seems as I have bigger fish to fry anyway trying to get this thing the correct belt. Thanks everybody. I'm about to take these belts back to autozone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Years ago when I first started repairing sewing machines my neighbor wanted me to look @ his mothers machine.I went there & it was a real old White treadle machine.So I looked it over oiled it,threaded it & started to sew & it started getting tighter,so I oiled it again & then it tied up & wouldn't turn.The she started yelling to him in Italian & he started getting upset w/me saying she thought I ruined her machine.I didn't know what to do so I said let me take it with me & fix it.She didn't like the idea but he convinced her it'll be ok.So I took it to work & told the old mechanic what happened & he just started laughing & thought it was really funny.Then he said that's what happens after years of 3 in 1.It builds up a waxing shellac type of crap in the bearings & when I oiled it it expanded & tied it up.He said take to kerosene & put in the bearings,so I did & it freed up.Took it back & she was smiling when I left.So after that I don't want to think about using 3 n1 on anything.ATF,motor oil,gear lube isn't good for most machines either,if it drips off the machine onto what your sewing it'll stain.It is best to use clear sewing machine oil or mineral oil.Even then if someone has used the wrong oil n the past it might stain for a while until it gets worked out of the machine.Bob called me this morning and walked me through the issues with the belt.,. I think I'm like 2 inches short! Gonna head back to auto zone for a longer one. Really appreciate every bodies help seriously. Thanks.Bob here is what I was talking about in that tension assembly! I still haven't tried threading the machine yet I will be doing that when I get back. I'm gonna try and hand fill the bobbin til the new winder gets here. Try and learn how to work this tension Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Ideally, the belt should set flush with the outer circumference of the pulley. So the belt size is measured around the outside. Make sure you measure around the outside of the pulleys to get the length. You should be able to roll the belt onto the pulley, but sometimes with new belts you can't. You can lift up the sewing end of the head and slip the belt on, or if the motor is in the standard position on a standard table, you can tilt the head back to install the belt. I know I have never removed a balance wheel to install a belt. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 14, 2015 You can lift up the sewing end of the head and slip the belt on, or if the motor is in the standard position on a standard table, you can tilt the head back to install the belt. I know I have never removed a balance wheel to install a belt. Art I was about to post the same thing. I always tilt the head back to replace belts, to oil the underside bearings, etc. All industrial sewing machines on standard tables have pivots on the back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TinkerTailor Report post Posted November 15, 2015 Here is the easiest way to get belt length: 1:) set adjuster to somewhere around 25% of total travel. This should leave you enough slack to make installing the belt easy but give you plenty of stretch adjustment. 2:) measure outside diameter of both pulleys. 3:) measure the distance from the center of one pulley to the center of the other. 4:) Plug these three numbers into this calculater: http://www.blocklayer.com/Pulley-BeltEng.aspx 5:) Double check with this calculator if needed: http://www3.telus.net/shebang/pulley_calculator.html 6:) Order belt to nearest 1/2 inch if possible. Done. No math needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted November 15, 2015 I still prefer my piece of rope . As LumpenDoodle said, it's idiot proof (probably why I like it). No maths, no calculators, don't even need to log onto the computer to use it. Rope of the correct diameter, however, will be better than string as it will fill the pulley grooves. (The guy at one shop had a measuring device that basically stretched the belt/rope/whatever between two half pulleys, mounted on a ruler. That way he could read off the exact size that I needed). Anyway, maths makes my brains hurt..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted November 15, 2015 I did do the string test guys. Still came up short: My string laid flat is measuring about 18 in long, so that's the size belt I'm looking for. But if I'm taking Toms instruction (correctly) and another member who says he has a 40 inch belt, I'm suppose to times my 18x2 which would equal 36. The old belt from the clutch is about that size and when I placed it its flopping all over because it's too big... Like why would I buy a belt that much bigger when I can see that it's already not gonna work. Please excuse my ignorance. Never done this stuff before. Getting frustrated cuz now I have to do math to figure this out and I hate math. Also, I can get the belt in with the thing on there it's just difficult. Seems as I have bigger fish to fry anyway trying to get this thing the correct belt. Thanks everybody. I'm about to take these belts back to autozone Looks like you still have more adjustment on the motor to move that pulley closer to see if the belt you have would fit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARK9 Report post Posted November 15, 2015 Something you can try (since you won't be needing the old belt) is: Cut the old belt. Wrap it as tightly as you can in the grooves of both pulleys, then mark the point where the belt's end laps. Measure to that mark. Ask for that belt size. -DC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Ideally, the belt should set flush with the outer circumference of the pulley. So the belt size is measured around the outside. Make sure you measure around the outside of the pulleys to get the length. You should be able to roll the belt onto the pulley, but sometimes with new belts you can't. You can lift up the sewing end of the head and slip the belt on, or if the motor is in the standard position on a standard table, you can tilt the head back to install the belt. I know I have never removed a balance wheel to install a belt. Art I still prefer my piece of rope . As LumpenDoodle said, it's idiot proof (probably why I like it). No maths, no calculators, don't even need to log onto the computer to use it. Rope of the correct diameter, however, will be better than string as it will fill the pulley grooves. (The guy at one shop had a measuring device that basically stretched the belt/rope/whatever between two half pulleys, mounted on a ruler. That way he could read off the exact size that I needed). Anyway, maths makes my brains hurt..... Here is the easiest way to get belt length: 1:) set adjuster to somewhere around 25% of total travel. This should leave you enough slack to make installing the belt easy but give you plenty of stretch adjustment. 2:) measure outside diameter of both pulleys. 3:) measure the distance from the center of one pulley to the center of the other. 4:) Plug these three numbers into this calculater: http://www.blocklayer.com/Pulley-BeltEng.aspx 5:) Double check with this calculator if needed: http://www3.telus.net/shebang/pulley_calculator.html 6:) Order belt to nearest 1/2 inch if possible. Done. No math needed. I was about to post the same thing. I always tilt the head back to replace belts, to oil the underside bearings, etc. All industrial sewing machines on standard tables have pivots on the back. Hey guys, i think ive got the belt down now! Finally lol. Wizcrafts, yes your right my machine does have the hinges, but i took them off to remove the head when i bought the machine and i have since lost them. Ill have to buy another pair. But when i tried to lean the machine back while on the hinges i could not for some reason So at this point if ever i need to get or look under the machine i will have to lift the whole head up. Looks like you still have more adjustment on the motor to move that pulley closer to see if the belt you have would fit. Something you can try (since you won't be needing the old belt) is: Cut the old belt. Wrap it as tightly as you can in the grooves of both pulleys, then mark the point where the belt's end laps. Measure to that mark. Ask for that belt size. -DC Colt yes u were right, Bob walked me through how that worked on the phone. The previous belt was still a tad too short though when i adjusted it higher, i could wrap it around the bolt on the outside of the pulley burt not the actual pulley. SO. Now that the belt problem seems to be solved i now have a new one; with the bobbin winder. Its not actually filling the bobbin. Made a short video to try and make the problem easy to diagnose. What could i possibly be doing wrong now?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Hey guys, i think ive got the belt down now! Finally lol. Wizcrafts, yes your right my machine does have the hinges, but i took them off to remove the head when i bought the machine and i have since lost them. Ill have to buy another pair. But when i tried to lean the machine back while on the hinges i could not for some reason So at this point if ever i need to get or look under the machine i will have to lift the whole head up. Colt yes u were right, Bob walked me through how that worked on the phone. The previous belt was still a tad too short though when i adjusted it higher, i could wrap it around the bolt on the outside of the pulley burt not the actual pulley. SO. Now that the belt problem seems to be solved i now have a new one; with the bobbin winder. Its not actually filling the bobbin. Made a short video to try and make the problem easy to diagnose. What could i possibly be doing wrong now?! On your bobbin winder - I had the same problem - Take a flat head screw driver and wedge it into the slot in the peg to spread it out some. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Chinese adjustable diameter bobbin shaft. Simple fix with 38 cents left over. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TinkerTailor Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Chinese Precision adjustable diameter bobbin shaft. Simple fix with 38 cents left over. Art Fixed that for ya. No hammer was needed.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) On your bobbin winder - I had the same problem - Take a flat head screw driver and wedge it into the slot in the peg to spread it out some. Ahhhh! Thanks Colt! Im already at work but i will try this when i get off. AM i to keep the flat head in that slot when its winding, or am I just to wiggle it around to get some separation and then take it out?? Chinese adjustable diameter bobbin shaft. Simple fix with 38 cents left over. Art Wait is that an actual part?? Lol, I'm gonna look that up too... Thanks guys for the help. Im gonna try Colt's screw driver idea right after work! Edited November 16, 2015 by MG513 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregg From Keystone Sewing Report post Posted November 16, 2015 I clicked on a thread about servo motors, now we're doing bobbin winder adjustments??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Ahhhh! Thanks Colt! Im already at work but i will try this when i get off. AM i to keep the flat head in that slot when its winding, or am I just to wiggle it around to get some separation and then take it out?? Pry it apart a little till the bobbin fits snugly, then take the screwdriver out. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LumpenDoodle2 Report post Posted November 16, 2015 May I suggest, for the sake of your safety, that you remove the screwdriver after giving it a bit of a wiggle to open up the splitty bit on the shaft. Otherwise, make sure you have health insurance. ;-() (or have the camera running for a good bloody youtube vid). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 16, 2015 I clicked on a thread about servo motors, now we're doing bobbin winder adjustments??? Hi Gregg, It started with Motors, then progressed to belt fitting (drive belt), and then it was off to Bobbin Winders. All pretty much a progression to get the same user up and running. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregg From Keystone Sewing Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Hi Gregg, It started with Motors, then progressed to belt fitting (drive belt), and then it was off to Bobbin Winders. All pretty much a progression to get the same user up and running. Art Oh I'm just kidding around here, of course. Bobbin winders need love, too! Hope my posts dripping with sarcasm don't come off wrong, not trying to kill this thread by any means. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TinkerTailor Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Oh I'm just kidding around here, of course. Bobbin winders need love, too! Hope my posts dripping with sarcasm don't come off wrong, not trying to kill this thread by any means. Can't even get the thread started until the bobbin is wound...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Hi Gregg, It started with Motors, then progressed to belt fitting (drive belt), and then it was off to Bobbin Winders. All pretty much a progression to get the same user up and running. Art Oh I'm just kidding around here, of course. Bobbin winders need love, too! Hope my posts dripping with sarcasm don't come off wrong, not trying to kill this thread by any means. May I suggest, for the sake of your safety, that you remove the screwdriver after giving it a bit of a wiggle to open up the splitty bit on the shaft. Otherwise, make sure you have health insurance. ;-() (or have the camera running for a good bloody youtube vid). Ok remove the screw driver lol. Got it. Yes sorry Gregg. I'm a total newb (clearly). Im just trying to get everything out of the way so I can get out of every bodies hair. Every time I figure out 1 issue another pops up and its all unfolded here lol. Like now that I may have a solution to get the bobbin to actually wind, I can't get this plate cover to fit over this hole. Doesn't matter which way i flip it, doesn't matter how hard I press or try to slide it into the grooves. SImply doesn't fit… So im just gonna order a whole new plate lol. Hopefully buying a new 1 will solve that problem, and then after that i should be problem free! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LumpenDoodle2 Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Don't worry, there's always a gremlin waiting in the wings. You mght need to lift the machine just clear of the table surface, then slide the plate in from left to right. Sometimes, with the machine hinged over on its side, you can lever the plate spring into place with a screwdriver, then push the plate home. Other machines, you have to feed the plate into the space at an angle fron right to left. Problem is, I've got so involved in reading about your belt, and winder, I've forgotten what machine you have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 16, 2015 Can't even get the thread started until the bobbin is wound...... Don't worry, there's always a gremlin waiting in the wings. You mght need to lift the machine just clear of the table surface, then slide the plate in from left to right. Sometimes, with the machine hinged over on its side, you can lever the plate spring into place with a screwdriver, then push the plate home. Other machines, you have to feed the plate into the space at an angle fron right to left. Problem is, I've got so involved in reading about your belt, and winder, I've forgotten what machine you have. Yes I plan on getting the bobbin winding down pat once I get to the house, then I'm gonna work on threading the machine. Luckily there are several YouTube vids for that so I shouldn't have to bombard you all with questions on that!! And yes Lumpen I'm sorry I've been all over the place lol. I have a consew 206rb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 16, 2015 I did the screw driver thing, helped but didn't work well. Found this little piece hanging around and that seemed to really help. I feel like the thread is too tight in the tensioner but I can't loosen it anymore or the whole thing comes flying apart. I got the bobbin to fill (whether it's filled correctly is a different story) but there is no kick back. Th thing just stops spinning. I'm wondering if I should get another belt, just a tad bit shorter... Maybe that will increase the friction on the bobbin winder wheel or something? I don't know I'm grasping at straws here... This should not be this difficult to figure out. *exhales* Thanks everybody for the help thus far!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
