looking for a beginner machine

[TheITMan]

my fingers dont like sewing by hand. im looking into options for a beginners machine. my budget is about 300$. i see a lot of singer units on craigslist. are there any models i should look for? what do you recommend?

[Colt W Knight]

What do you want to sew? To be brutally honest, there really isn't a such thing as a beginner leather sewing machine. They are typically big and expensive.

[TheITMan]

i would need something that can sew at least two layers of 7-8oz. iv seen people using older singer units for this purpose. plenty of those to be had at decent prices. 

[Colt W Knight]

I think most of us have been here before, and tried those old Singer home machines. They just don't work for sewing vegtan leather reliably. I know I watched a bunch of youtube videos and internet stuff that said they would work if they were setup right. So I went out and bought one, upgraded everything, and it would sew garment weight leather and heavy canvas/cloth reliably, but never would sew two pieces of vegtan together reliably. It could do short runs, but it would never do any real projects. It would either loose control of the feed and wouldn't stitch the SPI consistently, fray thread, or drop stitches. Plus, they will not sew with larger thread.

There are plenty of old Singers out there that are capable of sewing leather, but they are not cheap like the old home machines.

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Colt W Knight

[TheITMan]

at the very least what models would i be looking for? i might be able to scrape up enough fun money to boost my budget to 4-500. at this point i really cant justify spending 1k+ on a machine for a hobby.

 

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, TheITMan said:

my fingers dont like sewing by hand. im looking into options for a beginners machine. my budget is about 300$. i see a lot of singer units on craigslist. are there any models i should look for? what do you recommend?

Maybe you can find a used walking foot machine being sold by an upholstery shop, or an individual; who did upholstery at home, through your local and nearby Craigslist ads. We also have a classifieds section on Leatherworker.net, called the Marketplace. There is a section for used sewing machines. look for a compound (triple) feed walking foot machine, like a Singer 111w155, or Consew 206RB-something, with a 20x48 inch table with a big 1/3rd or 1/2 horsepower motor underneath. These often show up within a hundred miles of major metropolitan areas. A typical price is between $500 to $800 in working condition. Those in very good condition and having thread, needles, bobbins and other accessories may go for a little more. Junk machines can be had for $300.

[TheITMan]

1 minute ago, Wizcrafts said:

Maybe you can find a used walking foot machine being sold by an upholstery shop, or an individual; who did upholstery at home, through your local and nearby Craigslist ads. We also have a classifieds section on Leatherworker.net, called the Marketplace. There is a section for used sewing machines. look for a compound (triple) feed walking foot machine, like a Singer 111w155, or Consew 206RB-something, with a 20x48 inch table with a big 1/3rd or 1/2 horsepower motor underneath. These often show up within a hundred miles of major metropolitan areas. A typical price is between $500 to $800 in working condition. Those in very good condition and having thread, needles, bobbins and other accessories may go for a little more. Junk machines can be had for $300.

just the info i was looking for. what thread size can these handle?

[bikermutt07]

Me neither. But recently i started investigating the  machines just out of curiosity. Mostly because  there are so many  posts concerning  them. From what i can gather,  anything less than a 2000.00 dollar investment will fall short of what i would be happy with. That's a  lot of scratch for a hobby. Maybe someday I  can justify it or just afford it and get one. Till then it's  hand stitches for me.

[Wizcrafts]

7 minutes ago, TheITMan said:

at the very least what models would i be looking for? i might be able to scrape up enough fun money to boost my budget to 4-500. at this point i really cant justify spending 1k+ on a machine for a hobby.

 

The higher your budget, the better the machine you will end up with.

Brands to watch for include:

• Singer 111w155
• Consew 206RB-(number)
• Consew 255 series
• National 300N
• Seiko walking foot machines
• Juki LU-562
• Juki LU-563
• Juki DNU-1541
• Some Brother walking foot machines
• Mitsubishi walking foot machines
• Cowboy and Cobra walking foot machines (Chinese, but well made for USA use).

4 minutes ago, TheITMan said:

just the info i was looking for. what thread size can these handle?

All of the aforementioned machines max out with #138 bonded nylon thread.

[TheITMan]

13 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

The higher your budget, the better the machine you will end up with.

Brands to watch for include:

• Singer 111w155
• Consew 206RB-(number)
• Consew 255 series
• National 300N
• Seiko walking foot machines
• Juki LU-562
• Juki LU-563
• Juki DNU-1541
• Some Brother walking foot machines
• Mitsubishi walking foot machines
• Cowboy and Cobra walking foot machines (Chinese, but well made for USA use).

All of the aforementioned machines max out with #138 bonded nylon thread.

thanks for the wealth of info

 

[mikesc]

I would add this to Wiz's list ..Singer 211..G or U or A..( and the various sub classes, the letters G, U , or A indicate the country of manufacture )
I have one..compound feed, walking foot , updated version of the 111, equivalent to ( IMO ) the LU 563, or the aforementioned Seikos or Consews..

[TheITMan]

12 minutes ago, mikesc said:

I would add this to Wiz's list ..Singer 211..G or U or A..( and the various sub classes, the letters G, U , or A indicate the country of manufacture )
I have one..compound feed, walking foot , updated version of the 111, equivalent to ( IMO ) the LU 563, or the aforementioned Seikos or Consews..

is the singer 211 capable of handling the same 138 bonded?

[bikermutt07]

While the experts  are following the thread, i have a question. 

Which is more versatile, cylinder arm  or a post machine?

[JLSleather]

If I didn't have a machine, and was looking to stitch stuff like that great lookin holster you posted, I'd call Bob and ask  if he got a Cowboy 3200 with no shipping label on it as yet.

It's "under $2k", but sews with a pretty versatile range of thread / needle combinations, will handle a couple layers of heavy leather easy enough.  And it's slow enough to be a "beginner" model (no fingers stuck to the table).

 

[Colt W Knight]

JLS, you make a lot of holsters, how often do you sew something thicker than 1/2" ?

 

I have a Consew 206 RB-1, and while it is a great machine, it is not a holster machine. Thread isn't big enough, and the flatbed hinders its usefulness getting around all those 3-d holster shapes. Plus, it can't sew the welt on a cowboy holster ( i have tried and tried with no success). Does a great job on belts, leather folders, and purses though.

 

 

 

 

[mikesc]

is the singer 211 capable of handling the same 138 bonded?

Yes..it can run even 207, but not all the time ( not enough clearance under the bobbin plate, so 207 is forcing it if done every day, but occasionally is OK ) But 138..no problems at all..I agree with Colt, if you have the chance of a cylinder arm model ( Singer 211 is flatbed ) then cylinder is more versatile as you can always make flat bed "add on" to fit around the cylinder arm..Or get a flatbed machine ( they are more common ) and later get a cylinder arm machine..one can never have too many sewing machines..

Post is more versatile than cylinder..but has more to go wrong, ( more "gubbinsses" and is going to be more finicky to keep tuned, that said, I wouldn't kick one down the steps if it came calling cheap or free, I might very well reach down and help it into the house ;)..But the one I'm looking for now is an "Irish" ( nearly had one last week but it zigzags from the left only, ( some of the early pre 1930 ones do, it was a 1929 107 ) I want a later "100" series central zig zag, or better yet a 20U63 would be nice, ( although the original 100 series "Irish" can punch through more leather thickness that the 20U series ) but 63s are as rare as hens teeth here )..12mm bight, and knee or foot control stitch width, that I'd carry over the threshold in heartbeat.

Edited July 9, 2016 by mikesc

[graywolf]

Right now the "beginner machine" looks to be a new Consew P1206RB.

You should be able to find a new one for around $1000 plus shipping. That's with the table and a servo motor. That puts them down there very close to the "Never Heard of Them" clones. You folks in the big cities may be able to find a deal on a used machine, around here they want more for a beat up old factory machine than that NEW Consew.

My recent experiments show that a heavier duty home machine does better than most people think they will (see my recent tread

), but I would not consider one if you are going to use it seriously. I would not be too worried about the machine falling apart, but that you are likely to have too many redos, for it to be profitable.

[zoomer56]

Check out the Boss. It is hand operated, will go thru more than your requirement. It is now available through Tandy Leather.

[JLSleather]

On 7/8/2016 at 7:21 PM, Colt W Knight said:

JLS, you make a lot of holsters, how often do you sew something thicker than 1/2" ?

I have a Consew 206 RB-1, and while it is a great machine, it is not a holster machine. Thread isn't big enough, and the flatbed hinders its usefulness getting around all those 3-d holster shapes. Plus, it can't sew the welt on a cowboy holster ( i have tried and tried with no success). Does a great job on belts, leather folders, and purses though.

i haven't sewn anything in the 1/2" or up range for a long time.  That's 4 layers of 8/9, and I'm generally about 'capped off' at 3 layers (which I DO sew all the time).

I think the CB3200 is good money -- prolly what I would get.  I DID have one of the 206-RB5 machines, and if that girl gets tired of it i'd buy it back. Maybe she'll use up the $100 worth of thread I gave her and then not need the machine any more  ??

But the Boss.... I dont see the point.  While I understand it will throw a little heavier thread than the 3200, I have NEVER needed 415 thread (or whatever that size is), and if you add about $300 to the price of the boss you could be running under power

 

[Red Cent]

Most of my SASS holsters are 4 layers. Two 8-9 and two 6-7 here. JL, what has three layers of 8-9?

[JLSleather]

Front, back, whelp.

 

[Wizcrafts]

My thickest holster job in recent times was a full 7/8 inch along the stitch line. There were four 8 oz layers of filler inside the approximately 10 ounce front and back piece. I had to readjust the machine for minimum alternating foot lift, using the slotted plate and a #25 diamond point needle, with #277 thread. The presser bar had to be raised to clear the stack of leather and the inside foot position dinked with to get the leather to feed. This would have been much easier to accomplish on my last Union Lockstitch machine, which I already had modified to sew 7/8 inch. You can't beat a jump foot needle and awl machine for thick sewing.

Here is a photo of the filler side before it was slicked and edge dyed.

[Ken Nelson]

I used to have a Luberto's Classic that would sew an honest inch of skirting leather.   I wish I had not sold it.  Wonderful machine and simple.

[JerseyFirefighter]

On 7/8/2016 at 7:27 PM, bikermutt07 said:

Me neither. But recently i started investigating the  machines just out of curiosity. Mostly because  there are so many  posts concerning  them. From what i can gather,  anything less than a 2000.00 dollar investment will fall short of what i would be happy with. That's a  lot of scratch for a hobby. Maybe someday I  can justify it or just afford it and get one. Till then it's  hand stitches for me.

I went through these same mental hoops. Posted here with a $500 budget looking for a machine to sew a 12oz of leather, begrudgingly upped my budget to over $1000, then went big instead of going home and dropped almost 3x that on my machine. It is a little different because I had been selling products for a few months already, but i'm sure budget will slowly start creeping upwards (not to my extreme I gather). I'm guessing although it's a hobby you sell some of your work..I dedicated a few month or so of profit to offset the hit. Couldnt be happier with not settling. 

[Wizcrafts]

I now Grok that the OP may have been looking for a hobbyist's sewing machine, with no plans for a full blown commercial machine. The two that come to mind are the Tippmann Boss and the Luberto Cub. Both are hand operated, mountable on the edge of a desk or table, or work bench. They can sew up to from about 1/8" up to 3/4 inch with #346 thread, using system 794 needles. They aren't cheap, but will suffice for small pre-production and one-off runs of holsters, belts, horse tack and such. They are also good for repairing these items. A determined hobbyist could pay for such a machine in a few months, then decide whether it is time to move up to a motorized machine, or stay put.