Holster belt input

[carguy4471]

I believe I saw a section for belts, but since this relates to holsters I thought I'd ask here.

So once I've got my first holster finished and I get going on my second I was thinking about giving a belt a go.

A couple question on holster specific belts:

If one is to be hand stitching, are single thickness belt blanks available to avoid stitching?

How heavy do folks usually go for total oz on a holster belt??

 

[Dwight]

I make mine upwards of .200 depending on the leather I have available.  Most of the time that is two pieces of 6/7 flesh to flesh, . . . contact cemented together.

If I were making a single layer, . . . it would have to be 14 oz or better, . . .  but I have never had anyone insist on a single layer belt.  Once they see, try on, and feel the fit of the double layer, . . . they seem to be happy with it.

May God bless,

Dwight

[carguy4471]

Which leads to the question:

Is hand stitching a belt insanity?  I've never done it but it seems like it'd drive one nuts pretty quick.

[Josh Ashman]

I've made single layer belts out of heavy saddle skirting (14/16 oz) that have held up very well. If you cut them along the back parallel to the spine they have a minimal amount of stretch. For comparison, this is where you'd cut stirrup leathers for a saddle. That said, they do not hold up as well, nor are they as rigid as a double layer, glued and stitched belt. I have hand sewn many belts. Get yourself a stitching horse, a sharp awl, some thin leather gloves, a small pair of pliers and practice up on your saddle stitching. It's been a while but if I recall correctly you're looking at around 3 hours of mind numbing work (or relaxing, depending on your outlook). Since I've purchased a sewing machine (Cobra class 4) I haven't been even close to tempted to hand sew a belt, or really anything. 

I usually make my doubled belts out of 2 layers of 7/8 oz because I usually have it on hand. Although I have also used 10/11 with a 4/5 back. Basically somewhere between 14 to 16 oz for a total thickness which will come in just under 1/4". The nice thing about using 7/8 is that it's thick enough to have the top layer make the fold around the buckle then skive it off and pick up the liner and it's all one thickness without the doubled up bulk at the buckle. with the 2 colors of leather you can see what I'm saying in the picture below. 

Good luck with your belt, however you decide to make it!

Josh

[billybopp]

If you're only looking to make a belt or three, hand sewing is not a bad option.  I have not sewn a belt myself, BUT I have done a few guitar straps which are similar.  It's not something you'd want to do all the time, but when you hit your stride sewing something that size, it moves along nicely.  Stopping every few inches to stretch my arthritic hands the straps still only take two or three hours.  There is a certain zen-like quality to hand stitching for me, and there's a little extra bit of pride in the finished product it seems.  So, no.  It's not insane.  Not something you'd want to do every day, but do-able!

P.S.  Be sure to have some proper music to work with, or if you can maintain concentration a movie or TV show.  It helps.

Edited December 6, 2016 by billybopp

[carguy4471]

The only bit I was worried about with hand stitching is the length of thread I'd need to be pulling through when getting the belt started.  That'd be pretty dang long threads to tend to and keep from getting all tangled up.  Unfortunately I don't see a sewing machine in my near future.  The funds just aren't there for it and available funds will need to be going into leather and dies.  I've only just picked up a double shoulder and a small bottle of die and resolene to get myself started.  I sure would like to do a couple 2-3 belts though.  

I was trying to find somewhere online that sold pre-punched belt blanks and regular belt blanks for liners, that'd sure make the process easier but I wasn't seeing the weights I'd want to a 2 layer belt.  

[JLSleather]

My belts are generally around 13-14 oz total thickness.  I have hand stitched them, but not so much these days (though I would if I needed to).  This weight can be done with different weights, like I do -- 8/9 oz lined with 4 oz - or with two layers of the same weight, like Dwight mentioned (double 6/7 oz).  Two layers of a single thickness lets a guy get by with only buying one weight of leather, or thicker lined with thinner lets me carve a little deeper.. so each has it's benefit.

No rule says you have to go all the way around the belt with one thread.  Tw0-piece it (one splice) would be fine....

 

[carguy4471]

12 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

My belts are generally around 13-14 oz total thickness.  I have hand stitched them, but not so much these days (though I would if I needed to).  This weight can be done with different weights, like I do -- 8/9 oz lined with 4 oz - or with two layers of the same weight, like Dwight mentioned (double 6/7 oz).  Two layers of a single thickness lets a guy get by with only buying one weight of leather, or thicker lined with thinner lets me carve a little deeper.. so each has it's benefit.

No rule says you have to go all the way around the belt with one thread.  Tw0-piece it (one splice) would be fine....

 

That's about the weight's I've been looking for.  8/9oz pre-punched belt blanks are out there but I can't find any 4oz 1-1/2 belt strips to use as liner.  

[billybopp]

My guitar straps were all done with a single length of braided poly .. A couple with black Tiger thread, the others with Chinese poly.  They were all darker colors, so color contamination was not a problem.  Managing tangling does take a bit of care, and it will happen.  You just have to be aware of it and keep an eye out for knots.  If a knot appears, don't pull it through if you catch it, back out and untangle the knot.  It's a little bit of a pain, but I've not had more than two or three in a project.  You quickly learn how to manage your thread and not tangle it.   Over that length, the needle end of the poly will begin to show some wear for a couple of inches, so add a little extra to allow for that.

If I were doing a light color, or using linen or some other thread that's susceptible to wear I'd go for shorter lengths and splice.

Also, as previously mentioned, some protection for your hands is in order .. Lightweight gloves would work, but I use athletic tape wrapped around the fingertips that grab needle and thread and around the "wear" places on my fingers that I pull to tighten with.  Without these, in time you'll get callouses on those spots, but until then you can end up sore and maybe even a little bloody.

Another big help is a couple of thin strips of wood to help support long runs in your stitching pony.  About 1/4" X 1" x 12" on both sides of the strap held by the stitching pony.  Some have made stitching clamps just for straps, but the wood strips work really well.

Edited December 6, 2016 by billybopp

[JLSleather]

I had one supplier split me a strip of two once when I didn't want to cut into what I had here.  What they charged me to split a couple of strips was borderline insane

I generally have 3 weights here, and sometimes a 4th weight from time to time.  But once I move, I think I'll just purchase a good size splitter.  I mean, assuming that I can find one.

[Josh Ashman]

When hand sewing I'd use a manageable amount of thread and just splice as needed. If it could be done with one length, great! If it needed to be spliced, no problem!

[dakotawolf]

I hand stitched a belt once - just once.  I watched two movies in a single sitting while doing it.  The belt was for me; I don't think I could could hand sew belts to sell because it's too time consuming.  

As for working with long thread on a belt, start at the tip (billet end) and work towards the buckle.  When one half of the belt is sewn, start at the tip again using the same hole you started with before, and then sew the other side towards the buckle.  At first I though I'd have to sew the entire belt with one length of thread that started at the buckle end and ended at the buckle end (or splice in thread as needed).  Luckily my local leather shop guy gave me this advice.  I knew it was good advice because I had that "why didn't I think of that feeling".  Doing half the belt at a time made it quite a bit easier, and it looks just as good.  

Edited December 6, 2016 by dakotawolf
Added more info for clarification

[bikermutt07]

Since you mentioned just starting out....

Get yourself a 6 foot straight edge (home depot) and a piece of straight pine 1x6 or 1x8 for a cutting board. Grab your tape measure and razor knife and have at it.

Make sure and have some fun.

[dikman]

Nothing wrong with hand stitching, it's something to be proud of. I've done four gunbelts, three with what's known as gunfighter stitching, and one dress belt with the same stitching. Yes, it does take a long time (!) and I doubt if you could justify it if you were doing it for a living - it only works if your time isn't taken into account. I also did them using one piece of thread, but it does take a fair bit of managing until you reach the half-way mark!!

I also recently made a gunbelt from a single piece because I wanted one that was flexible, but in general I think two pieces glued back-to-back makes for a stronger belt. Whilst I now use a machine for gunbelts, holsters and cartridge slide/holders are still handstitched but I can't really charge for the time taken as it's my choice to do it that way.

And yep, music helps when doing a belt.

[carguy4471]

14 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

Since you mentioned just starting out....

Get yourself a 6 foot straight edge (home depot) and a piece of straight pine 1x6 or 1x8 for a cutting board. Grab your tape measure and razor knife and have at it.

Make sure and have some fun.

I'm not even sure how I'd hold a six foot straight edge in place with one hand and try to cut something possibly 50" long in with the other without that straight edge slipping.   

[Dwight]

The first cut for a belt (or anything for that matter) out of a hide almost has to be done against a straight edge.  I have two:  one has cork backing and the other does not.  I use the cork backed one on that first cut, . . . then use a strap cutter to make the next number of cuts.

A cousin of mine gave me the strap cutter, . . . and at first I was not too keen on it, . . . but I really love it now.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Josh Ashman]

I use a 6' piece of aluminum angle for a straight edge. I roll the hide out on the floor, lay the angle where I want the first cut and then mark the line with a scratch awl. I just make it deep enough to be seen easily. Then I cut that line with a round knife. I use a poly cutting board, the biggest Wally world stocks and just move it up every few feet. Used to use a pine board but felt like the grain of the wood sometimes pulled my cut off line. Once the first cut is done I use a strap cutter like Dwight, 

Getting used to round knives, strap cutters, draw knives and assorted other leather specialty tools has really helped me out. I used to try and make do with utility knifes and they just don't work as well for me. A sharp round knife will easily cut heavy leather and you can make anything you like. A strap cutter or draw knife is essential for belts and other strap goods. 

Good luck, Josh

[TinkerTailor]

23 hours ago, carguy4471 said:

The only bit I was worried about with hand stitching is the length of thread I'd need to be pulling through when getting the belt started

One way is to use several shorter pieces, In a belt because it is stitched all the way around, you can tie a knot and ditch the tails between the layers, and then just start again with a new thread. No backstitch necessary if there is an internal knot. This technique is easier if you don't glue to the edge. The difficult part is getting the tension the same across the join and the knot flat. Some replace the knot with a drop of superglue.

I have also seen a technique to use on non taperable thread(see below) that is hard to explain, and takes a bit of practice,  but works well. As you start running out of thread, get a new piece and lay it perpendicular to the stitch line between 2 holes. You then stitch 4-8 stitches with the old thread, winding that new thread in and out between the stitch holes like a slalom course, between the layers of leather.(minimum number of weaves will depend on stitch tension, tighter=better). This will lock in the start of the new thread  You then switch which thread is visible, and continue with the new thread, ditching the old one the same way you started the new one. Repeat on bottom side. When i am going to use this technique, i usually start my stitch with one thread 4-6 inches longer than the other and then the long one is the one i ditch first.

One of the things with traditional linen thread, is when properly used you taper the ends of the thread by scraping them with the edge of a knife, which allows you to just twist on a new piece and keep stitching without changing the thread thickness or needing knots and backstitches. The taper allows both the new and old thread to weave through several holes at the same time. Much faster than tying off and restarting or working with 10 feet of thread. Also, linen tends to fray much faster than synthetic thread, and can only go through so many holes before it looks like crap. You can run a 10 foot piece of braided poly through every hole on a belt and it will look the same at the end. Run a linen thread through all those holes and it will be all frayed up if not broken by the end. Adding new pieces as you go keeps the thread stronger and looking more pristene and uniform. Before synthetic thread, getting these necessary taper joins right was one of the things that made old school stitching harder, and separated masters from dabblers.

[TinkerTailor]

1 hour ago, carguy4471 said:

I'm not even sure how I'd hold a six foot straight edge in place with one hand and try to cut something possibly 50" long in with the other without that straight edge slipping.   

Weight. If you want it proper, take a arrow straight 2x4, glue an aluminum ruler on the edge and screw several metal gate handles along the top so you can really lean on it. The leather shop i go to has one like this on their cutting table.  If you want total hands free cutting, put a vertical dowel at each end you can slide a 20 pound weightlifting weight onto each end. These can be had at thrift stores for cheap. Saw the old owner square five 10oz hides at once in one cut. He had a whole pallet of double bends to make into belt strips and did not want to waste time.

[Josh Ashman]

When hand sewing anything, once I need to change threads I'd backstitch two holes then start over with a new thread and move forward. Run an overstitch wheel over the front of your stitches when you're done and the two back stitches are all but invisible. Certainly a person can make things as big of a deal as they like or keep them as simple as they like, what you do is up to you. The pic below is the last saddle I built, which was about 4 months before I bought a sewing machine. Everything, including the breast collar you can see in the background was hand stitched. 

[JLSleather]

2 hours ago, carguy4471 said:

I'm not even sure how I'd hold a six foot straight edge in place with one hand and try to cut something possibly 50" long in with the other without that straight edge slipping.   

It's not difficult as it sounds. I cut hides with a 6' aluminum stick I found in the drywall section at Menards

 

[carguy4471]

6 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

It's not difficult as it sounds. I cut hides with a 6' aluminum stick I found in the drywall section at Menards

 

That's a pretty slick idea there!!

[JLSleather]

Gotta watch them goofy marketing people.  They'll take a $2 knife off teh shelf at the auto parts store, put a sticker on it that says "leather knife", and charge $24 ea.

 

[bikermutt07]

Mine is a six foot yard stick.

Just get it where you want it , kneel down on it with my knee and start cutting.

 

[TinkerTailor]

13 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

six foot yard stick

Do you have a 1 foot ruler with 24 inches on it as well??/ Should sell it to JLS, for the journey to fishing country.....

Edited December 8, 2016 by TinkerTailor