Anyone Tried this Speed Reducer?

[KeithHideWorks]

After trying my hand at handstiching, I quickly realized I wanted a sewing machine to speed the process up.  I started to do some research and was able to find a local Consew 225 with Table and Servo Motor for $500 locally.  Nothing else was in this price ball park so it really was a good deal locally. Having never even touched a sewing machine before, the gentleman i bought it from spent an hour showing me the basics in getting it running,ect.  Looked easy.

I get it home that night and over the next week, cus this damn thing out because it won't work. I tried everything I could research and eventually traced it back to not threating the bobin thread correctly under the hook when it catches the upper needle thread. Anyway got that sorted out and have been running a bunch of #138 Poly Thread with Groz Beckert #22 leather needles (135x16 DPx16D).  I was having trouble with getting enough foot lift with the knee lift to get my holsters made of 2 12oz veg tans lined with suede under there and eventually figured out how to adjust knee lift to get more clearence.  I am still have issues with the walking foot messing up the leather on top, not sure what adjustment will fix that. I have twisted the knob ontop of the head (Looks like it compresses a spring in the walking foot, figure that is foot tension) but nothing really changes. At this point im just trying to be able to practice sewing, I can fix the adjustments later.   The machine is timed dead on the money so thats not the issue (I dont think).

Anywho, even with the servo motor set to lowest setting 300rpm, and feathering the foot pedal, Its way to fast. If I feather it too much, there is not enough torque and then the machine jumps when it gets enough power and is hard to control.  So i thought , hey, maybe a speed reducer will help with this. It will slow it down and provide more torque on the low end to smoothly punch through the material. So as I have been researching, I found this one on ebay.  This seems to require the least amount of modification to my table, while also being local (few hours away).  

I was wondering if anyone has used this and has any thoughts? Here are the links I have found so far.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222373125535?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[mixmkr]

the speed reducer in that video is hooked up to a clutch style motor.  Not sure why your servo is not allowing slow enough speeds at its' lowest setting, unless you have a larger pulley on the motor.  Typically, I think you might see 50-60mm pulleys in use for super slow speeds.  Any rate, a different servo motor is definitely less expensive than the speed reducer, usually costing a good amount less than $200 for a quality servo motor.   I've bought two servos in the last couple years (both SewQuiet Reliable brand) and they have been fine.  Albeit the settings are on the motor, so you have to reach underneath the table, but it isn't that far a reach actually and easy to see.

[KeithHideWorks]

The Servo in it is a Familysew FESM-550N. When I see videos of people running quality machines online (Cobra,Cowboy 441 Clones and the like), they are all nice and smooth and slow.  I see that most of them come with a servo motor AND a speed reducer built into the table/kit.   The pulley in the motor looks to be between 2-3 inches, hard to measure without taking guard off,ect.

Its really not about the money. I plan to buy a Cowboy 4500 in the next year and really am wanting to learn and have a good backup machine down the road.   Even if it turns out I need a new Servo, would the speed reducer ever be a bad idea?

I am having trouble keeping my stitches inside the groves and don't know what else I can do but slow the machine down.     The motor is currently at the lowest setting (350rpm) and won't move any further. Its way to fast for what I'm trying to do I think.

[brmax]

That link ya have there is showing one of the newest styles of box reducer, and they are nice. Most here will use one of the reducer styles on even the normal, industrial flatbeds and cylinder arms sewing thicker materials. If you are interested in that new style or the other older post style, take a look at the dealers on top of the page here. I think they are still using the post style on the big dogs but i could be corrected there.

You need a reducer with 12oz and would benefit with a big thread machine, but anyway pick up a reducer and be ahead of the game for that machine. Oh! possibly a better priced source, not sure with shipping and all that, but listed below when i last looked these places had plenty in stock.

If you have pop-up's turn off some companies helping answer and troubleshoot machine questions have some good deals on reducers Ive seen.

Some of the company's I have called upon, with good help all around. There are also many listed top of the page above so maybe some are close to you, but shipping is pdq with any.

Leather machine co.(cobra), http://www.leathermachineco.com/

Keystone sewing, http://www.keysew.com/

Toledo sewing, http://www.tolindsewmach.com/

 

Floyd

[Northmount]

You need to also consider the size of the machine head's pulley.  On smaller machines, the pulley is smaller than on the larger machines, thus it has a lower speed reduction.  I have a similar sized machine with a Familysew servo with built in 3:1 geared speed reduction.  I had to add a pulley reduction set too in order to get the initial punching torque required for 8 oz and heavier leather.  So I would say from my limited experience, add the pulley reduction set or fabricate your own if you have ability to do so.

Tom

[KeithHideWorks]

Thanks for the information fellas.  I do have a bunch of add blockers running in my browser, but disabled them for this site. The least I could do for all the generosity the membership has shown so far.    Thank you again. 

[dikman]

Holsters are arguably one of the toughest things to sew, due to thickness, so a slow speed with good torque is needed. I'm puzzled why you can't adjust the speed any slower (my servos can be set to almost a crawl just by themselves). Fit the smallest pulley you can to the motor, generally 2", and a speed reducer will definitely help as it will give more torque at low speed. The big machines have a small pulley on the motor and a (very) large pulley on the head unit. I did this on my Pfaff (fitted an 8" on the head) and it gives excellent slow speed control + torque. Some of the big machines will also have a speed reducer fitted as this combination gives an incredible amount of grunt to let them punch through very thick leather.

By all means fit the speed reducer, as it won't do any harm, but you really have to get that servo running slower too.

[KeithHideWorks]

Well I can feather it slow, but it doesn't have enough torque to smoothly sew through what I need it to. The motor will bind up until enough juice is fed to it then its shoots off like a rocket.  

I cant get a nice slow and steady pace like I see with most of the machines online. 

[brmax]

I see belt parts back there! 

I think if your is starting and stopping a stitch line say in that particular project.  Really for that matter projects under 2'feet would seriously benefit with a reducer pulley system both for reduced speed and that your gain of the greater amount of torque the machine is happily supplied with for leather and thick material.

On some machines i have retained the new front edge power switch, as its wired to motor. These retain the speed control on motor and seems to work pretty good.

Another brand of servo is not going to address what you need completely, and as investment the pulley system is the 1St best choice. 

good day

Floyd

Edited January 15, 2017 by brmax

[rac1812]

I have been vacillating between a servo or a reducer pulley.  Finally decided to go with the pulley system has I could make my own.  I am running a Singer 211G156.  Already swapped the motor for a 1750 rpm and that helped but not enough.

Based on the video from the forum and various system designed on EBay .... we built our own.

Basically we dropped the motor to male room for a reduction pulley....motor went straight down so the final belt driving the "head" was in the same location and allowed to use the bobbin winder to remain in its usual place.

If some one can be so nice as to inform me how to post pictures I will gladly share my design.

I installed a 1.5 in. pulley on the 1750 rpm motor driving a 5 inch pulley on the jack shaft..... in turn the jackshaft has a 2 inch pulley driving the head 3 inch standard set up..... my overall reduction is 350 RPM flat out at the sewing head pulley.

The first two pictures are not for readers from Australia...... we choose to work upside down for greater ease.

 

 

Did a few test strips and it is much easier to maintain 100 or 200 rpm.

I used two 3/16 thcikness..... 5 by 10 plates and three rectangular 1x2 tubing 9 inches long

Two Taiwan 5/8 pillow block and a few bolts

Needed to rewire the motor has the new positioning made the original cables too short to reach the switch.

,,,,have not given up on a servo..... but need to gain more practical experience with these mods first

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MADMAX22]

Good job Rac, thats a nice setup. Plus the link belts are a bonus. I put machined pulleys and link belts on my old craftsman table saw, that thing is so quiet now and no vibration what so ever. 

Extend that arm on your motor actuator and it should give ya even more control. 

[dikman]

Nice job! Now, replace that 5" pulley with an 8" and fit a larger pulley on the head unit (replace the handwheel) and I reckon you might not need a servo. It will also have gobs of torque.

[rac1812]

Thanks..... will be working on extending the control arm....

I found a high quality 8" industrial pulley with screwed sheave.........real heavy like a flywheel

....but I am at a lost for a larger pulley that will fit the head........ any suggestions short of machining on???

 

Bob C

 

 

[cjartist]

Hey Keith,  I'm sure this is not your problem but in the picture you posted of the servo you have the speed set to the max.  Just wanted to point that out.

There is a real nice video on youtube of the actuator extension.  I just watched it yesterday

Youtube - Machine Control

[dikman]

Sorry mate, I just realised that your machine is probably similar to my 211G166 and in order to fit a replacement pulley on the head unit a sleeve will have to be fitted around the shaft and fit inside the body of the machine which Is why I haven't done it to my 211 (yet). On most machines there is a bushing/bearing fitted inside the pulley end of the main body and the shaft fits through it. The 211 is different and the pulley (handwheel) is machined to fit over the shaft and extends inside the main body. If you try replacing the pulley then the main shaft can oscillate unless it has this sleeve fitted.

Use the 8" in place of the 5", you should have the room there and it will still make a difference.

[Yetibelle]

I wanted to try out this method since the parts are easy to get and it installs from the top of the machine.. looks like it works well?

 

 

[KeithHideWorks]

On 1/16/2017 at 7:59 PM, cjartist said:

Hey Keith,  I'm sure this is not your problem but in the picture you posted of the servo you have the speed set to the max.  Just wanted to point that out.

There is a real nice video on youtube of the actuator extension.  I just watched it yesterday

Youtube - Machine Control

I know someone was going to say something about that lol.

Its actually at the lowest setting, turned all the way clockwise.  I thought the same thing too, and played with each setting to see if that was the issue. Backing it counter clockwise it speeds up considerably.  I think its just the cheap chinesse manufacturing in that the labels don't line up with actual settings.   

Thanks for the Video!

I ordered the Speed reducer and it should be here friday. After I get it installed I will report back with pictures and results.  Thanks again everyone for the kind words and assistance. 

[Evo160K]

Keith,

You might want to check the article and video in the link below to see if his method will work on your servo.  Note in his comments that begin about 2:49 into the video, he found by setting the speed range to "0" on his Enduro servo, he had far more torque.  I found that also to be the case on my Consew CS1000.

http://www.swflholsters.com/358/sewing-servo-motor-diy-smoother-speed-control-mod-paper-gradient/

[dikman]

Yetibelle, that's not a bad solution, as it's easier working on these things from up top rather than clambering around underneath! Just make sure that it doesn't interfere with tilting the head back. On of mine is mounted underneath but in order to tilt the head back I have to slacken the speed reducer first (no big deal but it is annoying).