Machine Learning Curve

[Rick54]

I'm considering a machine after doing hand sewing. The projects I'd be doing are wallets, purses, belts, and knife sheaths. The machines up for consideration would be either the Cowboy 4500 or Boss. Unfortunately, I'm not reading many "fantastic machine" posts regarding these machines. What I have been reading are about problem issues with each of these machines, and how they seem to be very temperamental. I know nothing about sewing machines, and the wife has already informed me I will NOT be attempting to use her sewing machine. So I'm depending on you folks for the straight skinny on these two leather machines. Since I doubt I'll be doing high volume production, I'd like you're thoughts on how steep and tricky the learning curve is for these machines? Perhaps one should save themselves a big headache and just stick to hand sewing, your thoughts?  I'm sure many of you are thinking, if you're not doing high volume, why are you looking into a machine. Well, I've worked and saved all my life, and now that I'm retired, I'd like to enjoy MY savings a little before the nursing home enjoys it ALL!

[JLSleather]

25 minutes ago, Rick54 said:

oing are wallets, purses, belts, and knife sheaths

Often, the leather used in wallets and the leather used in sheaths is not the same thickness (or perhaps not even same type).  HERE lies your question... what WEIGHT and TYPE of leather would you like to sew?  AND, the material and thread size you want to use will [somewhat] define which machine you'll want.

My opinion:  Forums, including this one, are perhaps not the best source of information / reviews about equipment.  And that includes me -- I'm NO sewing expert. At all.  Often what you will see is someone asks a legitimate, sincere question - and instead of a reasonable answer they get opinions and conjecture (though it's often presented as factual information).

My recommendation:  

Look for a machine in your area. This is BY FAR the best approach.  Take some leather with you to see the machine work, and see it work with teh leather YOU intend to use.

If that's not doable, and you can't talk with someone you know (or at least can see), then were it me I'd CALL BOB.  Based on your location, and my own conversations with Bob, I'm confident he can fix you up.  Just let him know WHAT you want to sew (tooling leather, garment leather, upholstery, etc) and teh approximate weights you'll want to work with.

I will say that if you want to make wallets (on the thinner end) and sheathes (the heavier end) I would say that MOST people 'round here would recommend thread size from about 138 to 277.

And one final note of common sense.... if another member goes by the name of WIZ pops in and disagrees with anything I've said --- go with what HE said

I have been reading are about problem issues with each of these machines, and how they seem to be very temperamental

It's possible that some are looking for ONE machine which will perform well in every situation.  Tough to do with anything, though.  I mean, at one point I owned both a dump truck and a sports car.  While both quite good, neither will do the job of the other.

Edited March 29, 2017 by JLSleather

[bikermutt07]

Ha!

 

[Northmount]

If you are thinking about a Boss, you need to realize that you can only use one hand to guide your sewing.  The other has to be on the lever to make the stitch.  So the more finicky the project, the harder it is going to be.

One machine to sew from say 3/16" to 5/8" inches thick material without having to do a bunch of re-adjusting between projects just isn't going to happen, especially for a new user.

Tom

[Gregspitz]

the more company support you have for the machine you buy the shorter and easier learning curve.

Buy the Seller!

I have 2 Techsew machines and could not be happier with the machines and the support.

I do wish someone would have been around to teach me but the process now that I look back on it was necessary to know how to do things.

The good companies will help you pick out the correct machine for you.

Let us know what you do!

 

[MadHatter]

the Cowboy, or any in that class, will do a good job for any projects you mentioned but will require changing adjustments for lighter any heavier threads.

I  use a CB4500 along with a JUKI LU563 for lighter 69 to 138 threads. Each should have the newer type motor controler for much smaller learning curve

Having both is the way to go.

Your wife's machine sewing skills may help you cut down your learning  curve :-|

[brmax]

I would consider a bit more towards the machine with a pulley wheel. 

Good luck

Floyd

[TacticallySharp]

I used the Cobra 3. Yes I have to adjust it based on what I'm  doing which is the same as you listed plus holsters. Basically two settings cover everything  I  do.

Steve at Cobra may even have a unit which he took on an exchange for a new one. 

[eglideride]

Rick54-

I like what you said- basically you can afford a machine, Cool. I bought one because I knew I would never sew a rifle sling, belt or guitar strap by hand.  No interest in it what so ever. I am not into "production" at all really. I have one because I wanted one. The machine does make it possible to do more things that I do enjoy. Also, I like the "mechanicalness" of the sewing machine...find it fascinating. I will hand sew from time to time..when it makes sense (read,  because I have to)

Enjoy the adventure! Do purchase from one of the advertising supporters of this forum- Gregspitz is correct- buy the seller! Great way to put it!!...I went with the CB 3200 and Cowboy Bob FWIW...great experience. JLS and Wiz are huge resources (although JLS left Iowa and moved NORTH for some crazy reason, so he is suspect) do a lot of reading on this forum...watch you tube videos...then jump in!

But hey- I am just a hobbyist...

 

Best

 

[Rick54]

Thanks everyone for the input. eglideride, I like the way you think!

 

[JimTimber]

Would there really be 6-8 distributors of the 441 clones if they were overly problematic?  Same design in continuous production for 30 years - bad?

Some people struggle with getting them dialed in more than others, some people who are struggling don't post about it online too.  I'd argue most people understand that you're going to need to make some test seams when changing materials and thread, and it might take a couple dozen 2" tests to get the thread/needle/stitch length/tension all in harmony before you're able to "sew" your part.  If that part is only 6" of stitching in super thin leather, you might have gotten it done faster by hand vs getting the machine dialed in to bury the knots in a lockstitch (sometimes the work is unforgiving like that).

I have a 441 clone, and I have had material(s) that didn't want to play nice for me.  I didn't post about it because I knew some part of my configuration was responsible (ended up being the thread and needle size I was using were incompatible in that leather).  I find it an easy machine to use, and most of the time it takes very little adjustment before it's making great stitches.

As Wiz has said in other threads; the 441 is really in it's sweet spot on thicker materials.  Not that it can't sew a 69 thread and 500D fabrics (I've done it, and it did great), but that it's not as good in the lighter stuff as a bed type machine which is made to sew those weights (at faster rates, no less).  I'm glad I have two different machines.  My 441 will never sew two layers of canvas with the speed of my Singer 211G.

[Doc Reaper]

I have the Cowboy 4500, glad I have it, it's easy to learn how to sew but it's involved when you are just starting out

[Earl Ash]

My two cents. I use the Boss. I like it, some don't. You are in Michigan. As has been stated, take your materials and go see Bob at Toledo Machine. You will leave with something that works for you, new or used. He will take good care of you.