Help Applying Saddle Stitching to Tool Bag Design

[OrthodoxMason]

Hey All,

I'm in the process of developing durable, hand stitched tool bags for tradesmen. The first iteration I'm working on is a traditional carpenter's bag. By trade, I'm a builder who specializes in structural masonry and timber framing. I began leather working as a way to replace the old Medallion bags that I had used for years and were falling apart. I'm quite happy with where I have landed design-wise, but believe there are a few production processes that need improvement. Generally speaking, I'm looking for any guidance on how to approach stitching through two layers of 8-10oz. leather in an efficient and frustration free manner. I'm a believer that hard work will always be hard work, but it shouldn't be frustrating. Right now, there are a few of aspects that exasperate me, and I'd like to iron them out if I can. Below, I've posted a brief overview of my stitching process and a few pictures that hopefully provide further insight. 

 

• I plot out all of my stitching lines and use a groove set to hollow out a channel for the stitching to lay flush into.
• I use a SEIWA  6x4.5mm Stitching Iron to mark and puncture all of my runs of stitching on a cutting pad.
• I use large 000 harness needles with 1.0mm tiger thread waxed.
• I use a french styled stitching clam on some aspects of the bag, but the doubled up edges don't seem to provide enough material to clamp down. I've also used a table vise to good effect as well. Also, I sometimes wet and hammer flat the edges before stitching them in place.
• Currently, I rely on a little scrap leather to help push the needles through. I know I need to buy or made a some sort of glove to keep my fingers free, but should I be having to force my needles through?
  
  Hopefully, this provides enough background to my current progress and situation. Let me know what I need to explain further, and most importantly what areas I need to improve upon. Thanks for taking the time to read this and help me out. 
  
  Here is a link to an imager album that I had already compiled featuring pictures of my work with a further description.
  
  Best regards,
  
  Patrick
  
  P.S. Let me know if I am formatted my post incorrectly, or have posted in the wrong place. I am still learning the rope of this forum. Thanks again
  
   

[Dan Miller]

I'm just learning hand-stitching myself, so can't really help you with your questions. I just wanted to say that I really like your tool pouches.

I've also done a bit of timber framing myself.

 

Cheers,
Dan

[cradom]

Well, as for pushing needles - this https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/sewing-palm-right-hand

As for problems stitching, are you using an awl? Sometimes a pricking iron/ stitching tool wont punch all the way through the leather. I recommend getting a good awl and blade and using that to open holes to stitch.

I'm not qualified to recommend a brand but it doesn't have to be expensive. I use a Barry King with a Tandy blade (after much sharpening, will try another brand next time).

[480volt]

I stitch with a pricking iron and awl. Pricking irons are used only to lay out stitch locations, not actually punch through the work. I own a couple very old sewing palms from when I used to sew Axminster and Wilton carpets and a several sizes of thimbles. I will occasionally wear a thimble while stitching, if the going is tough, but a traditional sewing palm just doesn't work for how I stitch: too clumsy, wrong angle.

[Tugadude]

I think your work looks great.  A couple points to consider.  First, I like that you are using red Loctite on the brass fasteners, but personally, I think you are overdoing them.  I mean I think some are unnecessary, such as the ones on the pencil pouches.  Stitching alone is incredibly strong if done correctly.  1.0mm Tiger thread is very strong.  

You might try smaller needles.  Maybe a John James #2.  The ones you are using are bound to get hung up and hard to press through.  I see no problem with using the Seiwa chisels and you can do each layer individually so long as you take pains to ensure the holes line up.  Nigel Armitage has videos where he discusses the process.  But even if you are using the chisels, you could use an awl to expand the holes just prior to stitching.  Don't use a sharp awl as you don't want to cut the holes bigger, just stretch them temporarily.

I've seen tool pouches made of leather and canvas and leather and nylon, but yours are something that will really become special to the owner.

Good work!

[Tugadude]

27 minutes ago, 480volt said:

I stitch with a pricking iron and awl. Pricking irons are used only to lay out stitch locations, not actually punch through the work. I own a couple very old sewing palms from when I used to sew Axminster and Wilton carpets and a several sizes of thimbles. I will occasionally wear a thimble while stitching, if the going is tough, but a traditional sewing palm just doesn't work for how I stitch: too clumsy, wrong angle.

You are correct but I think the OP is using stitching chisels which are diamond shaped but not tapered and are designed to punch all the way through.  The newer irons are making decent looking stitching attainable more quickly than pure awl work.  I do both, but when I can get by with a chisel, I do.  YMMV.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Tugadude

[byggyns]

I'll second the suggestion of adding an awl to your stitching. I use the diamond chisels for laying out my stitching on holsters, but when I stitch I have an awl and use it for each stitch. When you are punching through 2-4 layers of 7-9 oz veg tan (sometimes even more), you need the extra help. I'll also say to go with smaller needles. I use a #2 John James for 1 mm thread.

When I sharpen my awl, I do it the way that Stohlman lays out in his books. Just sharpen the front edges, leave the shoulders blunt. After I push it through, I give a little twist to temporarily open the hole (which is why the shoulders have to be blunt, or it would cut), then when the stitch line is finished, a little hammering helps to close it back up. Make sure you match your awl blade size to your hole/thread size. If you go too big, you end up with more hole than you need (and more chance for the holes to tear).

[AZNightwolf]

X4 on the Awl, it will change the way you view the world. I h8ted life til I found this out

[Dan Miller]

22 hours ago, cradom said:

I'm not qualified to recommend a brand but it doesn't have to be expensive. I use a Barry King with a Tandy blade (after much sharpening, will try another brand next time).

My awl-work was jumpstarted, IMO, by starting with Barry King awl blades. They cost $25, but come polished, sharp, and ready to use out of the box.

[Dun]

 

if I'm seeing it correctly, if not, feel free to ignore
any inner corners(90* or more acute angles) should be made with a sharp round punch. I'll look for a pic to demonstrate.

 

 

edit: here is a tandy example 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Dun

[Windrider30]

Personally I do not use a thimble or even one of those gloves, I just wrap my fingers in tape normally the kind that you use for wraping wounds, or once in a hwile a little duct tape if I am in a hurry helps protect the fingers from thread burn from pulling as tight as I do. Now I flat refuse to use an awl (again have shoved that evil over grown ice pick of death under my thumb nail enough times to know its not for me) but what I will use from time to time is a fig, especially if you are having trouble getting the needle though and a good pair of teethless pliers make it a lot easier to pull the needle though the other side a breeze, saves the fingers, though you really want to make sure you buy more than one or two needles (I buy  mine by the 100) as you will end up breaking a few here and there. as for making sure that my holes line up if I am going though two thick layers, I tend to lay each side by side, drive the punch though one set, then switch over to the other lining up as perfect as I can really helps make sure that both sides are all the way punched though and makes it a lot easier to stitch.

[480volt]

1 hour ago, Windrider30 said:

what I will use from time to time is a fig

Do you mean "fid", the rope splicing tool?

[Windrider30]

6 hours ago, 480volt said:

Do you mean "fid", the rope splicing tool?

Yep stupid phone was having a fit lol

[OrthodoxMason]

Thanks for all of the insight and helpful advice! Sorry for the delayed reply, I was out of town this last week. After reading through the replies, I am going to work on the following aspects and see if they culminate into faster stitching speeds. I read on an old forum post that folks were able to perform 6" runs of stitching in 12 minutes. If I am able to work my way to such a rate, I will be quite content!

• Use a dull awl in conjunction with the stitching chisels to widen holes temporarily. 
• Use smaller harness needles. John James #2 is where I'll begin.
• Wear sewing palms to help push needles through.

 

Thanks again. I will try and follow up with any progress that I make.

 

On 7/21/2017 at 4:51 PM, Dun said:

 

if I'm seeing it correctly, if not, feel free to ignore
any inner corners(90* or more acute angles) should be made with a sharp round punch. I'll look for a pic to demonstrate.

 

 

edit: here is a tandy example 

Dun,

Can you elaborate on where this inside corner punch should be used on my bag? I am intrigued, but I don't quite understand. Thanks

[OrthodoxMason]

On 7/19/2017 at 11:00 PM, Tugadude said:

You are correct but I think the OP is using stitching chisels which are diamond shaped but not tapered and are designed to punch all the way through.  The newer irons are making decent looking stitching attainable more quickly than pure awl work.  I do both, but when I can get by with a chisel, I do.  YMMV.

Yes, I am using stitching chisels

[OrthodoxMason]

On 7/19/2017 at 10:57 PM, Tugadude said:

I think your work looks great.  A couple points to consider.  First, I like that you are using red Loctite on the brass fasteners, but personally, I think you are overdoing them.  I mean I think some are unnecessary, such as the ones on the pencil pouches.  Stitching alone is incredibly strong if done correctly.  1.0mm Tiger thread is very strong.  

You might try smaller needles.  Maybe a John James #2.  The ones you are using are bound to get hung up and hard to press through.  I see no problem with using the Seiwa chisels and you can do each layer individually so long as you take pains to ensure the holes line up.  Nigel Armitage has videos where he discusses the process.  But even if you are using the chisels, you could use an awl to expand the holes just prior to stitching.  Don't use a sharp awl as you don't want to cut the holes bigger, just stretch them temporarily.

I've seen tool pouches made of leather and canvas and leather and nylon, but yours are something that will really become special to the owner.

Good work!

Many thanks for the advice! Indeed, the chicago screws are a bit of any overkill. For the pencil pouches, it is part bulletproofing and part aesthetics. I am not worried about the time to install them though. Compared to the stitching time, it is quite minimal. 

[OrthodoxMason]

Below is a brief breakdown of the linear runs of stitching required to make the bag. I thought that y'all might enjoy these measurements for points of comparison and review.
 

• Main Pouch - 70 Linear Inches
• Front Bag - 40.5 Linear Inches
• Pencil Pouch 20 Linear Inches
• Total - 130.5 Linear Inches

Working on such a stitch intensive bag (at least to me) means that refining the stitching process yields huge saving in terms of time and effort. I am grateful for your collective thoughts and replies, for I have much to learn.

[johnv474]

Once you have everything in place (holes made, needles threaded, leather in clam or stitching pony), and with some practice, it is possible to stitch 8 stitches per minute or so.  If you are using 6spi chisels this works out to about 1.25 inches per minute.

Certainly that is not the fastest out there, but it is certainly not the slowest (some people stitch 2 stitches per minute).

In anything hand-sewn, the sewing portion will take the lions share of the project-making time, so careful planning and preparation--and plenty of time refining your sewing technique--will pay off big dividends in time savings.

Edited July 28, 2017 by johnv474
Website's spellcheck caused typos

[Dun]

I just saw this 90* angle on the edging and wanted to mention it, just in case you have any inside or in a load bearing spot. With your inside-out pocket design you are probably covered.

[OrthodoxMason]

1 hour ago, Dun said:

1 hour ago, Dun said:

I just saw this 90* angle on the edging and wanted to mention it, just in case you have any inside or in a load bearing spot. With your inside-out pocket design you are probably covered.

Dun,

Ah, I see now! Thanks for the excellent recommendation! I will begin approaching those corner cuts as you have recommended. It makes a good deal of sense.

 

[OrthodoxMason]

1 hour ago, johnv474 said:

Once you have everything in place (holes made, needles threaded, leather in clam or stitching pony), and with some practice, it is possible to stitch 8 stitches per minute or so.  If you are using 6spi chisels this works out to about 1.25 inches per minute.

Certainly that is not the fastest out there, but it is certainly not the slowest (some people stitch 2 stitches per minute).

In anything hand-sewn, the sewing portion will take the lions share of the project-making time, so careful planning and preparation--and plenty of time refining your sewing technique--will pay off big dividends in time savings.

Pardon my potential ignorance, but are the folds of leather that I am working on considerably different than a typical lapping of two separate pieces of leather? The hardest aspect of the stitching for me now are the folded edges. Doubling over the edges in a pleasing and efficient manner has been quite a challenge for me. In your experience, do you believe that stitching those connections ought to be similar to a more typical connection? Would you happen to have any advice on how to approach such an aspect?

[Tugadude]

You are right in that the folded tops of the pouches make things more difficult or at least slower.  I'd be tempted to create holes in what is the outer aspect of the rolled edge and the glue it or tape it down with double-sided tape and then use an awl to go through the existing holes and through the second, unpunched layer.  Seems to me a reasonable way to approach it.  Once you get things sorted out you will likely amaze yourself with how fast you can stitch.  

Edited July 28, 2017 by Tugadude

[OrthodoxMason]

Pardon a six month space of silence, but I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread that was kind enough to chime in with their ideas and recommendations. Truly, having such input has been a helpful guide. I'll try and compose an progress update post soon. My main line of work is construction and design, so this project often has to take a backseat. Moving slowly is still moving. I'm aiming to begin selling these tool bags alongside other leather goods in late spring. In my update post I'll cover more of that in depth, but I wanted to reach out to you guys first because I welcome your continued input. Thanks again for taking the time out of your day to dialogue with me. Hopefully, I can contribute and give by to this forum.

Best regards,

Patrick

P.S. Dun, I have implemented your curved tab suggestion to great effect and am excited to show it to you. Thanks again!

[motocouture]

Really impressive work! My hubby used to do construction and fine finish carpentry, so I showed him your bags and he was also very impressed! He pulled out his tool belt, made by Occidental Leather, and suggested (assuming you haven’t already : ) researching their website for price points etc. A couple of photos below...

@nstarleather and @RockyAussie also have written some great posts on some of the business aspects of the leatherwork that might be handy (again, forgive me if you’ve already covered this ground). 

[Dun]

Glad to see you're still at it! I've been moving slowly as well with my stuff.