Newbie with questions

[Tigdim]

Almost 2 years ago I started thinking my wife and I would like to get try our hand at leather-work. We bought 2 shoulders (7-8oz and 3-4 oz veg tan from local tandy-2 hours away,) some tools, some thread and then we got distracted with life; Adding a second bathroom in our basement, Baby #2, Remodeling the baby room... the list of projects goes on and on!

Now, I am in need of a new holster for my carry gun. My current setup has worked well enough for the last 5-6 years, but has warn some and the friction fit is no longer holding on to the gun as tightly as I like. I believe, part of the reason it has loosened up is that it is only 5-6 oz leather  holding a relatively heavy gun for its size. Springfield EMP 3". Rather than purchase a new holster I am going to make one out of the 7/8oz shoulder I have... then another, and another .... until get one that is functional and I am happy with it. Then I will most likely make one out of some black drum dyed leather. I really like black holsters and belts-and as I am just starting out, I am thinking it may be easier to use drum dyed rather than having to mess with dyes right away.

Are there any issues with using the "drum dyed skirting" vs the natural "tooling" leather? Using terms taken from W&C website as they will sell direct to customer in small quantities. 

I do have a pancake holster patter for my EMP. ( Thanks JLSleather !!!! )  IF I don't screw it up too bad I might just get a functional holster sooner than I think!

First off, what size oblong punch do I use for a 1.5" belt- its a double layer gun belt about .25" thick? (belt actually measures at 1.42" tall)  The JLSleather pattern has slots that measure 1.58" tall by .25". Is the 1.5" oblong punch what I need or do I need to step up to a 1 5/8" oblong punch to have a little extra room? I do want the belt to fit somewhat tightly in the slots but don't want it to be a battle it every morning and evening getting the holster on/off the belt. Or is this a non-issue because it will stretch / open up with use? (old holster fit looser than I would like as the slots are a full/strong 2" tall and 1/2" - 5/8" wide- could have stretched some over time as well. ) 

I am also getting confused- or should I say... I'm finding conflicting information on holster interior and liners, whether here or on Holster manufacture websites. The search function here is great.... just so much information for a beginner to take in!!!

Some say flesh side is fine for the inside holster- other say use a liner; the flesh side of the leather holds dirt and debris and is hard on gun finishes.  Some say suede is the best liner, while others say suede holds on to dirt and debris making it hard on gun finishes. And still others say veg tan grain side in makes the best interior for a holster whether flesh out or double layered veg tan, to have grain side in and out.... looking for some guidance on this. Is it all personal preference? This is really a question I need a long term answer too, as I am not planning on lining the first holster just going to have flesh side in, but when I get to the final Black version I may want a liner or go double layer with grain inside and out. 

Aaron

 

[bikermutt07]

In answer to your gun being in the holster, flesh side, grain side, suede, whatever..... It doesn't matter. It will all be hard on the finish.

Most of the pros line using grain side out laminating. But, you don't have too.

I haven't tried any drum dyed skirting. I don't know if it will wet mold but I think it would.

[JLSleather]

Sounds like you gave this some thought  

I've made about a JILLION holsters with W/C drum dyed skirting - works great.  It's not as "hard' as Hermann Oak when set up, so it's different but not better or worse - just a different flavor.  I always have black - since those Glock boys love black, no point dyeing all of that one at a time.

Not sure why you found my pattern 1.58" slots.. they should be inch anna half. Maybe printed large, or maybe just thickness of the lines?  My punch is 1.5" x .25", and you may gain a little when burnishing the slots (i make a point of staying close to that size - I hate when they "rock").

Finally, I try to END UP WITH about 8 oz total thickness MOST of the time.  Larger firearms get heavier leather, pocket models are often 6/7.  I don't use "suede" as most people think of it, meaning chrome tanned.  Biggest reason for that is it doesn't form.

As a rule, two layers of 4 oz is fine. 

Or when I tool it, I likely use 5/6 lined with 2/3 (the revolver pictured left was 6/7 cow lined with 2/3 goat, if I remember right).

The Glock 19 on the right was 4/5 lined with 3/4.

 

 

OH, in WI, the fit of your holster getting loose could well be from freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw

We'd know better if we had a pic ...

Edited March 15, 2018 by JLSleather

[chiefjason]

I don't line my holsters.  Anything you put a gun in will eventually wear the finish.  I have a Sig that has serious wear on the finish from my t shirts.  Nothing else touches those spots.

 If you do line a holster it usually makes a stiffer holster.  

[Dwight]

There used to be a fellow on here, . . . have not seen him in a couple of years, . . . was in really bad health last time we corresponded, . . . his persona was Katsass.

He hand sewed all of his holsters from veggie tan, then dyed them or sat them out in the desert sun to tan to the color he wanted.

Here is a post showing a holster I made very similar to JLSLeather's above:  http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/69512-designed-by-katsass-executed-by-dwight/?tab=comments#comment-454607

(Katsass made some really good looking stuff, . . . take a half hour and use the search function for him, . . . you'll see some neat work.)

For that particular holster, . . . I gave it a good coat of Resolene when I made it, . . . and it is one tough, hard, holster.  It is 4 layers of leather bonded flesh side to flesh side.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Hildebrand]

Tigdim,

If you really want an education on holsters I suggest doing what I am in the process of.  I am on page 82 of the 273 in this topic.  I have read every thread on holsters and most of those on knife sheaths and other projects.  The amount of information is amazing, some of the members no longer post or just sporadically but there are tons of holsters to look at and compare to the advice given.  The only downer is the posts with photobucket pictures, the pictures are no longer available.  I plan to read all 273 pages, I have learned a ton, I thought I had a basic understanding after making a few holsters based of the instructions in Al Stohlmams how to make holsters book.  Man was I wrong, just what I have learned from this forum so far makes me realize I wasn't even up to Newbie status when I started reading.

Todd

[Tigdim]

Thanks for the insight guys, 

JLS- I will double check the print off I used... I know I checked the scale on the first one I printed, but the second one I printed... I am not sure, and I will double checked. Cut up the first one transferring it to card stock. IN either case I will just make sure I make the slots 1.5" by .25" I can always open them up a little bit if needed. 

Dwight, thanks for reminding me of User- Katsass. I have a few threads with his work bookmarked... things that I liked and would like to "borrow" something from. I also have a few older threads with your work bookmarked... I would like to eventually make one of your Cactus style holsters for a close friend of mine. He got me over the hump of being scared to modify my own guns. Helped me re-build/improve my deer rifles accuracy: bed action, float barrel install a Timney trigger. Took it from 2.5" groups (5 shots) at 100 yards to 1" groups with factory ammo. With reloads I can Knock on the door of a 5/8" group (It shoots 3/4" groups very consistently.) Seams silly now, after all the work I have done to other guns, including building my own 1911... but sometimes you just needs a little guidance/push to get over that feeling of doom every time you think, "What if I mess it up?" 

I was looking at the patterns I have last night, and it appears I have a 50/50 pattern.  I am also going to play with the card stock and see if I can figure something out that will be more like a 80/20. The search for a 80/20 holster pattern is what originally brought me to this site a few years ago! 

http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/64142-holster-patterns/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-445609

Now for my next questions, These all come from reading in "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" 

How many threads per inch/ What size over-stitch wheel do you suggest? and what size thread? Waxed nylon/poly? And as long as we are on the topic of thread... From reading in the 2, AL Stohlman books I have - it appears He was not a fan of pre-waxed thread... What do you guys use on your holsters for Threads per inch, thread size, and what kind of thread?

I am not sure where on this site I found them, but I was thinking of ordering from "Maine Thread Company" as I like to order from American businesses. Anyone have any experience with them? 

Thanks again, 

Aaron

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Tigdim
formatting correction, spelling

[Tigdim]

5 minutes ago, Hildebrand said:

Tigdim,

If you really want an education on holsters I suggest doing what I am in the process of.  I am on page 82 of the 273 in this topic.  I have read every thread on holsters and most of those on knife sheaths and other projects.  The amount of information is amazing, some of the members no longer post or just sporadically but there are tons of holsters to look at and compare to the advice given.  The only downer is the posts with photobucket pictures, the pictures are no longer available.  I plan to read all 273 pages, I have learned a ton, I thought I had a basic understanding after making a few holsters based of the instructions in Al Stohlmams how to make holsters book.  Man was I wrong, just what I have learned from this forum so far makes me realize I wasn't even up to Newbie status when I started reading.

Todd

Todd,

Funny you should mention that. I have not gone through everything, but I have been going over older stuff, doing searches on topics, and bookmarking pages with information/Ideas/photos that interest me or I think may become pertinent later. This site has a vast supply of information. I have also read 2 Stohlman books, read on many production and custom holster maker websites, some custom knife makers forums where they also make their own sheathes, and some on the holster sections of gun forums. There is lots of information outside of this site as well, but I have to say this forum is the best source of information I can find for leatherwork, with many people willing to help not just argue with one another. 

One of the problems I am finding, is that on just about any topic, you can find opposing views. Method 1 works for person A, but does not work for person B. Person B likes method 2. While person C has had success with both method 1 & method 2. While person D is looking for new method 3 as they do not like the results from Method 1 or 2! Good for research, but hard as a beginner, as I do not know what I do not know, so I don't know what will work for me... but most of the time I relinquish those debates too... it appears to work both ways just have to figure out which way works BEST for me.

Its lots of fun... I like reading/learning/researching thing thoroughly before I jump in. 

[Dwight]

FWIW, my holsters and belts are all done on a Tippmann Boss, . . . with the longest stitch length I can get on the machine, . . . which averages something in the 5 1/2 SPI.

Thread, . . . 346 bought at Tandy store.   I believe it is a poly thread, . . . the nice thing about it is when it is cut, . . . I can hit the end with a BIC lighter, . . . it melts and disappears, but creates a little ball like on the end of it, . . . keeps it from getting pulled through.

Tandy used to sell a waxed thread that I truly enjoyed using, . . . if I had known they were going to abandon it, . . . I would have bought 10 spools, . . . 

It somehow did a better job, . . . I'm not all into how it did it, . . . it just did.  Wish I could get some more of it, . . . but all they have now is dry and while it works, it sometimes just wants to be a pain, . . . and it IS a pain when it wants to be.

EDIT:  forgot to mention, you said you were doing a 50/50 pancake.  Some day when you feel like experimenting, go for a flat backed pancake.  I personally choose flat backed holsters for CCW over any of the others.

Most of my holster making technique I borrowed from looking at Milt Sparks holsters, . . . I would not make a copy of one of their designs, . . . but I have let their ideas influence what I do, . . . and so far it has worked really well.  

Most of their CCW holsters are also flat backed.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited March 15, 2018 by Dwight

[JLSleather]

I use nylon thread MOSTLY (and a bit of poly cuz I had to know for myself).  Don't think there's a big difference.  "Supposedly", the poly is more resistant to UV damage, but how often is a concealed holster in the sunlight?   By the time the thread even begins to be 'damaged", the holster (and maybe the gun) would usually be replaced, and if not, send it back and I'll sew it with new thread for free

I like 6 per inch on smaller (thinner) stuff, 5 - 5.5 on the larger ones, and usually I use 277 or 346 size thread, which I think stohlman called 4-cord and 5-cord.  I don't wax any of it.

This was done to show the effect of different needles.  Same thread (5-cord), same leather, same settings, but the needle change affects the finished look.

This is a zoomed view showing 4-cord thread at 6 per inch, natural thread in natural leather.  For scale, this is up against a Sig 938 (pointed to the right).

 

 

 

 

And this is just a "tip"... if you're using a pattern you cut out, cut on the OUTSIDE of teh line -- tehn you can save the pattern piece, and use teh CUTOUT on the leather, so you can see the leather you are cutting out.  Only takes one time cutting out a piece with an unacceptable mark on it to remember that one.