how much over the belt should knife handle be??

[Mocivnik]

I've always got a dilemma, how high on the belt the knife should be.

Are there any kind of unwritten laws about this? (we're talking about fixed blades, not folders, ofc)

I've seen some holsters, which keep a whole knife handle over  the belt, just like this pictuer below..

 

...while some are super low, as the top of the handle barely reaches the upper edge of the belt, as shown below.

 

[alpha2]

I don't believe there is any particular rule. It's whatever the wearer, and maker decide it to be. The sheaths I've made, are based on how the original cheap sheath held the knife. Here are a few of mine for example.

They are more like your second example than the first one. 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by alpha2

[Mocivnik]

Thanks!

Are there any pros and cons of anything of these 2 options?

[Dwight]

12 minutes ago, Mocivnik said:

Thanks!

Are there any pros and cons of anything of these 2 options?

The only thing to consider is that the higher it rides, . . . the less "swing" you get of the lower portion, . . . which on some knives I've seen, they almost want a leather thong to tie it to the leg to keep it from flapping in the breeze.

On the other hand, . . . if you bring up the knife so it rides higher, . . . the grip has a tendency to get caught on stuff you might bump into in the house, garage, or out in the field.

But generally, . . . it simply boils down to the question: "What does the customer want??"

THAT, . . . is the best answer.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Mocivnik]

The customer in this occasion is me  And I'm just asking questions for myself 

And the only thing that holds me back now is the size of the leather I've got :D

[alpha2]

Well, the wider the fold is at the top of the belt loop, the less the sheath will wobble front to back. As you can see with the KaBar sheath, (USMC knife), the fold is fairly narrow, and there is a hole at the tip for a cord to tie around the leg. All the years my brother carried this knife in the Marines, he never used a cord, and doesn't remember anyone else doing it either. He didn't do much slogging in the jungle, though, he was an aviation type.

There's a LOT of sheath makers on this forum, so feel free to ask more questions as you move forward with your sheath!

Jeff

[kiwican]

I spent a lot of time in the jungle and the bush. Always wore a knife strapped to my leg. Things get caught up real quick. Suit the sheath to the purpose 

[Boriqua]

I don't know of any rules but if someone has some that would be interesting. In holsters and knife sheaths I am always sure to go into some detail about how the customer intends to use it and in what environments. Sometimes its a mater of needing two separate sheaths.

If it is going to be something that needs to be concealed I might suggest a pancake approach to a client. I can get it up fairly high and it sticks to the body nicely.

If they will also carry a gun on the strong side I might suggest cross draw and then I would put a fair cant on it.

 

Will they be on horseback or in and out of cars. The one below was for a woman that did a lot of horseback riding. The belt is actually just about behind the handle strap. It pulled the knife up on the belt a bit higher so it wasnt in the way when she did horse stuff but still kind of looks like a traditional knife sheath

 

I think its important to have the conversation because many times a customer not being a leatherworker doesn't know what can be done and only knows what they have seen. As mentioned above .. some people are quite happy with the factory setup just not the factory quality so I also do a ton that are the same dimensions and just built better and better looking.

You are doing it for yourself so ... just think about how and where you intend to use it. I just did a holster for myself .. something I rarely get to do .. and wanted to try some new ideas and I did a mock up with some glue and 5oz leather I had in my scrap bin and wore it for a week before making some changes and building the final version. In the past I have used cardboard for knife sheath tests. Some rubber cement or duct tape and some cardboard and just live with it a while to see what you think on the cheap.

I personally prefer to have the belt at the hilt on stuff I own and carry. I find its the most comfortable. High enough to be out of the way but low enough that I dont have to contort to get at it. Lower and I start to notice its there but I rarely carry a knife w more than a 5 inch blade and usually just at 4 1/2 whether hiking or just for general chores. I have a bunch longer than that but ... I just thought they were neat and had to have them! 

 

BTW ... Alpha2 .. Those are pretty damn sweet looking sheaths!!!

Edited April 18, 2018 by Boriqua

[kiwican]

Some sweet sheaths being made for sure+

[Sheilajeanne]

I'd also worry about the handle poking me in the stomach/chest when I had to bend over if it rode too high in the sheathe. There's that to consider as well. 

I remember an old WWII series (Rat Patrol) where one of the guys carried a bayonet knife. He'd strap it to his leg so it wasn't swinging around and getting in the way. Makes sense for a blade that long!

[Boriqua]

Its not a sheath but I wanted to throw this out there as food for thought. This gentleman wanted to go from car, to walking through brush, to ATV and of course be able to squat without his gun barrel touching the floor all while hunting. I did this kind of pivot thing. The leg tie down was eventually changed to a 3/4 belt but the idea is even in a tight sitting position like while riding an atv the gun would pivot up ride along the outside of his thigh. Its been in hard use for at least 2 years and I hear from the gentleman all the time and he still loves it.

Just figured .. why not a sheath for a large fixed blade?? The D or O ring could be mounted lower I guess.

 

[kiwican]

18 minutes ago, Boriqua said:

Its not a sheath but I wanted to throw this out there as food for thought. This gentleman wanted to go from car, to walking through brush, to ATV and of course be able to squat without his gun barrel touching the floor all while hunting. I did this kind of pivot thing. The leg tie down was eventually changed to a 3/4 belt but the idea is even in a tight sitting position like while riding an atv the gun would pivot up ride along the outside of his thigh. Its been in hard use for at least 2 years and I hear from the gentleman all the time and he still loves it.

Just figured .. why not a sheath for a large fixed blade?? The D or O ring could be mounted lower I guess.

 

This is beautiful 

[fredk]

I found that it was a personal preference to how high the knife was on the belt. I made the knife sheaths in my medieval group. All of the knives were  longer than 15 inches and some were 18 to 20 inches long. Some chaps wanted the knife with the top of the hilt level to the top edge of the belt, some others preferred to have their knives lower down. Only one person wanted his with the top of the hilt a couple of inches above the top of the belt; but his fighting style was such that he could cross-draw that blade very swiftly

[Mocivnik]

I'm actually having real difficulties right now, I'm struggling for a day straight now "how can I solve this"!

 

You see, the photo below is my drawing of the sheath with knife.

Red: The full tang knife.

Yellow: Bottom layer (the one, which is slosest to human skin while hanging)

Green: Top layer, the face of the sheath.

The middle layer isn't properly marked with color, but it's about 0.5mm thicker than the knife blade. All three layers are from same leather, 7/8 thick (3mm). Handle of the knife is from very top to the slightly curved line, where the red matches the green part.

What my problem here is is that I cannot figure out, how to "end" the belt loop. Can't determine length AND shape of upper part of bottom layer (yellow), neither how to fix it. Should I use rivets, should I sew...I'm lost here.

I want to avoid a belt loop like this, I'd like to turn it outside-in, so the smooth surface will be seen (From bottom to the middle layer, just to be clear).

I can't figure it out, whether how long it has to be, (I know at least 2 lengths of the knife handle + 1 inch (25mm) for the curve on the top?), where to reconnect with midddle layer and what shape it should be.

 

I hope I was clear, although I don't think I was :D

[Boriqua]

I am not sure I entirely understand the dilemma but I will try my best to offer some help. Keep in mind .. I am not an expert.

It appears to me that the drawing show a fold over design. While they make great pouch sheaths I think with the interesting hilt shape and your design to have a snap over retention system you will be disappointed. I would be thrilled if you prove me wrong but I think your design wants to be a flat sheath. The down side is that it does add some width.

The upside is it will make the retention system more secure and  center your belt strap better if that is important.

Now there are two ways to do the flap so you see smooth leather. you can add some type of liner. so say you glue a 2/3 oz piece of leather  to the inside of your sheath piece so when its bent over you see smooth or you can bend the loop forward.

In the sheath below I chose to go forward. It was going on a 3" belt. What I do is give a fair taper to the end of the strap. Go at least 3/4 inch back and taper to zero. I turn my belt loop forward and glue it in position and tap with a hammer. Its important it goes to zero.

I then glue my welt and front piece to the back piece. They will override the skived belt loop by about 3/4" Then sew up the sides normally. It works out nicely because it give the very opening of the sheath an extra little bit of clearance and you see pretty smooth leather. When you sew the sides you catch 3/4 inch of the belt loop on either side and you have the backup that it is glued in place.

I have a close up of the joint somewhere and see if I can find it.

 

edited to add

no good, I cant find the close ups. If you are interested in the tapered loop and dont get it through my explanation I am sure i could do a quick sketch. Let me know .. it may not be the answer you are looking for.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Boriqua

[Bigfoote]

I make mine the same as Boriqua, with some belt loops higher depending on the customer. Very strong and look great!

Edited April 18, 2018 by Bigfoote
add pictures

[fredk]

2 hours ago, Mocivnik said:

What my problem here is is that I cannot figure out, how to "end" the belt loop. Can't determine length AND shape of upper part of bottom layer (yellow), neither how to fix it. Should I use rivets, should I sew...I'm lost here.

I want to avoid a belt loop like this, I'd like to turn it outside-in, so the smooth surface will be seen (From bottom to the middle layer, just to be clear).

I can't figure it out, whether how long it has to be, (I know at least 2 lengths of the knife handle + 1 inch (25mm) for the curve on the top?), where to reconnect with midddle layer and what shape it should be.

 

A. the only way you can achieve this on a fold-over sheath is to have the belt loop as a separate piece. 1. Sew the belt loop near the top of yellow, on the back, with the good sides together with the loop part extending up from the top, 2. then fold it downwards and 3. sew it to the back of yellow further down. Allow about 2 inches between the inside of the curve of the fold and where its sewn further down

B.  On a two piece sheath you could have the flesh side of the leather on the outside of yellow, and just fold down the extended top of yellow and sew it to the back of yellow

I think sewing is better in this case

[chiefjason]

I just finished 2 that were folded over smooth side out.  I skived and buried the leather into the welt.  Which means you have to shorten the welt to compensate.  They came out OK but I also learned a few things.  

The black one was buried enough to secure with glue and a couple stitches. 

 

 

I got the brown one short and had to stitch over the top to get another stitch in it. 

 

[Boriqua]

Hey Jason I wouldnt regard stitching over the top a mistake or fix. I am not sure how I decided it but sometimes I stitch over the top and sometimes I dont and I dont think either is wrong or right. It is usually an on the fly call like you did regarding construction and how I feel about the attachment but truth is like most of us ... if I didn't feel good about it I would start over even if I had a bunch of time in it.

I dont however cut back my welt to accommodate the belt loop. I see you are leaving your "flip over" piece a little thick at the edge. I bring mine to zero or close to it.I then go over that with the welt and front. It doesnt really add a whole lot of extra space but I think it makes it a bit easier to sheath you knife if for not other reason it pitches the opening forward a small amount.

Anyway ... if it is useful to anyone .. I found the close ups

I skive the rough side so I get a good rough side to rough side glue joint before I stitch.

I know for a fact that that one has been used on hunting and camping trips for over 6 years.

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by Boriqua
Found the pix

[chiefjason]

That would certainly be easier to pattern.  I like it.  This is the first time I have done it, so nothing is set in stone.  The only reason I call it a mistake is I noticed it after stitching.  I pulled all the stitching out, put an extra hole on each end, and re stitched.  It was not how I intended it to be, but I still like it.  A stitch or two and a good glue line will hold.  

Probably the biggest complicating factor on mine was how small the knives are.  Not a lot of room for error, or room to work.  

Edited April 20, 2018 by chiefjason

[alpha2]

15 hours ago, Boriqua said:

Hey Jason I wouldnt regard stitching over the top a mistake or fix. I am not sure how I decided it but sometimes I stitch over the top and sometimes I dont and I dont think either is wrong or right. It is usually an on the fly call like you did regarding construction and how I feel about the attachment but truth is like most of us ... if I didn't feel good about it I would start over even if I had a bunch of time in it.

I dont however cut back my welt to accommodate the belt loop. I see you are leaving your "flip over" piece a little thick at the edge. I bring mine to zero or close to it.I then go over that with the welt and front. It doesnt really add a whole lot of extra space but I think it makes it a bit easier to sheath you knife if for not other reason it pitches the opening forward a small amount.

Anyway ... if it is useful to anyone .. I found the close ups

I skive the rough side so I get a good rough side to rough side glue joint before I stitch.

I know for a fact that that one has been used on hunting and camping trips for over 6 years.

 

That is very similar to the KaBar sheath. KaBar ran the loop just a bit further into the welt area, and added one rivet in the center of the connection. So, they had stitching on both sides, the rivet, and four staples! It doesn't ever come apart, though.

Jeff

[Mocivnik]

Thanks everyone for answers, I happily read them all!

But the thing is, that my sheath-to-be has to be "half-open" as such, because the blade will be a bowie with sharpened back (not whole, just the tip).

And that's why I'm so confused.

 

[Boriqua]

You can still do it exactly as described. Fold it forward, Go back about 3/4 inch or more and make a line across at that measurement, Skive from that point at full thickness down to zero, Glue it down to the back well. sew accross or you could just sew part way in from the open area at the spine.  Lay down your welt and face piece and sew as in the picture being sure to go over the glued belt loop on the blade side. Done