DIY Filler for Edges?

[Nuttish]

We use something similar to PVA glue that's more flexible and has a high gloss. Several applications of a medium thin solution allowed to dry completely then sanded with 150 will fill the loose fibers marvelously. You can then do whatever other edge treatment you want. Sand with 100 grit to rough the surface up for acrylic edge paint, but you won't need to do lots of applications to build nice smooth layers because it doesn't need to penetrate and will adhere evenly and smoothly. PVA burnishes like a dream. You're essentially impregnating the edge with flexible plastic which you can then polish however you wish just like any other plastic. Just use progressively higher grits and burnish as usual with canvas and a thin solution, then let it dry and hit it with a felt wheel loaded with carnauba wax for a nice shine.

[BDAZ]

Is that a commercial product or do you make it?

Bob

[BDAZ]

Another experiment, I punched a hole at the edge of an old credit card producing a semicircle the diameter of the width of the leather. I applied a bead of caulk to the edge of the leather and "squeegeed" the bead forming a perfect semicircular bead the exact width of the edge. It dried perfectly. I am going to obtain some black caulk which could be an alternative to edging, burnishing and painting. The white looks perfect!

It would be easy to make a jig that would be a slot with a rounded top the exact width of the project, and one would simply draw the leather through and form a perfect bead on the edge in one step.

Bob

[Nuttish]

19 hours ago, BDAZ said:

Is that a commercial product or do you make it?

Bob

As I said, PVA is a great filler and on its own burnishes beautifully. It's durable and remains flexible enough for our purposes. However, it remains porous to water and could always stand to be mechanically stronger.

I make my solution based on protocols from academic articles from polymer and materials science journals. I'd rather not completely give away the secret sauce, but with these search terms you'll easily be able to figure out what I'm doing with cheap and readily available ingredients: crosslink PVA glutaraldehyde.

[Caesar]

I would think that using tape instead of contact cement is your main problem.  Why not use glue?  Or am I missing something?

[BDAZ]

2 hours ago, Caesar said:

I would think that using tape instead of contact cement is your main problem.  Why not use glue?  Or am I missing something?

You may have missed that this is production work and I find using tape saves me lots of assembly time and eliminates drips and ruined pieces. The parts have quite a bit of work already invest in decoration prior to belong assembled. I only use glue for touch ups. I was thinking of making a paste with glue and a black filler but I am not sure how well glue will take edge paint. So far all my tests have failed.

Bob

[Caesar]

5 hours ago, BDAZ said:

You may have missed that this is production work and I find using tape saves me lots of assembly time and eliminates drips and ruined pieces. The parts have quite a bit of work already invest in decoration prior to belong assembled. I only use glue for touch ups. I was thinking of making a paste with glue and a black filler but I am not sure how well glue will take edge paint. So far all my tests have failed.

Bob

Right on.  I've had a few times I could have used some leather spackle as well.  

Hope you find what you're looking for.  Good luck in your endeavors!

Cheers

[fredk]

I'm wondering if 'Artists Acrylic Medium' mixed with dye would work

AAM is available in art shops. It usually comes in tubes or tubs. Available in gloss or matt. Its neutral in colour. Artists mix it with their acrylic paints to thicken them and give them body. It does sometimes take a time to dry. Although it dries 'hard' it stays fairly flexible. I use to thicken my model acrylic paints and as a gluecked

Not DIY there is this stuff; a set of acrylic colour pastes.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Seat-Sofas-Vinyl-No-Heat-Liquid-Hole-Rips-Burns-Leather-Repair-Tool-Kit-Hot-/272961840219?hash=item3f8dcb245b

I first came across them 25 years ago for repairing cracks in dried out dashes in cars, My Cadillac  dash top was badly cracked and this stuff was mixed and pasted on. Back then it cost me about £25. I recently got some from China and the set cost under £3 - delivered. I tried some on a bit of leather. It took over night to dry but its remained flexible

[BDAZ]

Thanks for the input but a quick set solution is essential.

 

Bob

[Matt S]

Bob, did you experiment with silicone caulk as well as acrylic? Silicone can apparently be catalysed by mixing in corn starch, which provides moisture to the silicone away from the surface so allows the whole lot to set up faster. There are people using it for low-cost casting.

[BDAZ]

9 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Bob, did you experiment with silicone caulk as well as acrylic? Silicone can apparently be catalysed by mixing in corn starch, which provides moisture to the silicone away from the surface so allows the whole lot to set up faster. There are people using it for low-cost casting.

Not yet. I don't believe edge paint would stick to the silicone but if the silicone could be used as a combination filler/edge dressing, that could be the business. To that end I am playing with a slot with a small rounded end that can be used to run a perfect bead of silicone across the top of the edge producing a perfect rounded silicone edge and fill. Black silicone would be perfect.

Will definitely try the corn starch as well. Thanks!

Bob

[carmela]

Hello - I was wondering if you found a solution? I am going through a tough time getting my edges to stay together after I sew them up. I logged in to the Forum for some expert advice and saw your thread. I get small gaps & edge separation along my gussets in handbags. I tried many glues and different clamping methods but after sewing ( cowboy 4500) possibly the heavy pressure foot causing edges to come apart? I'm sewing croc embossed cowhide ( has a glossy surface) using a edge skiver ( also cowboy brand) I feel I tried everything as far as prepping edges ( even enrolled in a online edge course) using sander, wax, burnisher and paint. Edges still coming apart and even have small ripples in some areas. I'm getting as close to the edge as possible when I sew and using different length of clamps to mold edges prior to sewing. I'm really stumped & frustrated at how many bags I have to seam rip & try again unless someone has a suggestion?    

Sincerely

xoxoxo

[BDAZ]

I have not had any success in finding a stable filler that will bind the edge and produce a smooth finish.My problems occur after wet forming on a wooden form which stretched the 5-6 oz leather sides. I haven't given up yet..

 

Bob

[RockyAussie]

5 hours ago, carmela said:

Hello - I was wondering if you found a solution? I am going through a tough time getting my edges to stay together after I sew them up. I logged in to the Forum for some expert advice and saw your thread. I get small gaps & edge separation along my gussets in handbags. I tried many glues and different clamping methods but after sewing ( cowboy 4500) possibly the heavy pressure foot causing edges to come apart? I'm sewing croc embossed cowhide ( has a glossy surface) using a edge skiver ( also cowboy brand) I feel I tried everything as far as prepping edges ( even enrolled in a online edge course) using sander, wax, burnisher and paint. Edges still coming apart and even have small ripples in some areas. I'm getting as close to the edge as possible when I sew and using different length of clamps to mold edges prior to sewing. I'm really stumped & frustrated at how many bags I have to seam rip & try again unless someone has a suggestion?    

Sincerely

xoxoxo

@carmela If you would post some pictures of the problem and a description of how you went about it I would be happy to try and advise. Is the leather oily/greasy? What glue type are you using. If you are using edge paints you should not apply any waxes until the very end. Burnishing is also not advised. A picture of the cowboy set up showing the needle and entry point area may be an idea as well.

[nrk]

On 6/16/2018 at 7:39 PM, BDAZ said:

Most of my production items are glued, stitched and then wet formed with dozens of different forms. I make a number standardized products customized with the particular form required. Sometimes there is a very tight fit and the edges tend to separate slightly. I generally  don't use an edger, just edgepaint and burnish but it hasn't been a critical part of the process. I would like to improve the quality of the edges , especially where there is a small separation along the edge. I would prefer to have some type of filler  I can apply and then use a single coat of edge paint rather then multiple coats.

After researching I have seen a few possibilities but I am wondering if anyone has a personal favorite that would work as a filler, sand, burnish and then take Edgecote.

Thanks!

Bob

if the edges separate from each other then you're doing something wrong.

edge paint will do the job, unless you want the edges looks good. but you have already stated 'not looking for perfection' - this confuses

[carmela]

Also wondering if the Giardini dense base coat was tried and worked as a Filler?  I was planning to buy that along with the dense edge paint as an alternative to Fiebings. I would try the caulk but I'm using many unique leather colors ( reds, blues, greens, yellows, orange, brown, salmon, purple ) so mixing up batches of edge paint keeps me busy enough. I would love to find a way to make the edges stay together throughout the entire process and not start popping apart in sections after I sew them. I thought it was Barge - maybe I got an old batch from Amazon so I tried the newer version but the same thing happened. I then tried Fiebings and the latest glue I tried and still using after reading about it on the Forum is Aquilim 315 ( from Sorrell Notions & Findings). I love the glue ( odorless ) and definitely comparable to Barge. ( no more Barge headaches or dragging my folding tables outside to glue ) big process improvement! Thank you Leatherworker Forum!  Now I am really hoping to figure out a solution to my current problem.  I clamp gussets to handbag body right after the glue sets up and sit overnight clamped up and then I remove clamps as I sew ( using cowboy 4500 - cylinder machine) In some sections seams are together but in many small section they are seperated. Tomorrow I plan to try different leather to see if I get the same thing. I appreciate any ideas as a way to fill in the gaps along the edge. Sincerely

xoxo

 

[carmela]

[carmela]

Also wondering if the Giardini dense base coat was tried and worked as a Filler?  I was planning to buy that along with the dense edge paint as an alternative to Fiebings. I would try the caulk but I'm using many unique leather colors ( reds, blues, greens, yellows, orange, brown, salmon, purple ) so mixing up batches of edge paint keeps me busy enough. I would love to find a way to make the edges stay together throughout the entire process and not start popping apart in sections after I sew them. I thought it was Barge - maybe I got an old batch from Amazon so I tried the newer version but the same thing happened. I then tried Fiebings and the latest glue I tried and still using after reading about it on the Forum is Aquilim 315 ( from Sorrell Notions & Findings). I love the glue ( odorless ) and definitely comparable to Barge. ( no more Barge headaches or dragging my folding tables outside to glue ) big process improvement! Thank you Leatherworker Forum!  Now I am really hoping to figure out a solution to my current problem.  I clamp gussets to handbag body right after the glue sets up and sit overnight clamped up and then I remove clamps as I sew ( using cowboy 4500 - cylinder machine) In some sections seams are together but in many small section they are seperated. Tomorrow I plan to try different leather to see if I get the same thing. I appreciate any ideas as a way to fill in the gaps along the edge. Sincerely

xoxo

 

[carmela]

Also wondering if the Giardini dense base coat was tried and worked as a Filler?  I was planning to buy that along with the dense edge paint as an alternative to Fiebings. I would try the caulk but I'm using many unique leather colors ( reds, blues, greens, yellows, orange, brown, salmon, purple ) so mixing up batches of edge paint keeps me busy enough. I would love to find a way to make the edges stay together throughout the entire process and not start popping apart in sections after I sew them. I thought it was Barge - maybe I got an old batch from Amazon so I tried the newer version but the same thing happened. I then tried Fiebings and the latest glue I tried and still using after reading about it on the Forum is Aquilim 315 ( from Sorrell Notions & Findings). I love the glue ( odorless ) and definitely comparable to Barge. ( no more Barge headaches or dragging my folding tables outside to glue ) big process improvement! Thank you Leatherworker Forum!  Now I am really hoping to figure out a solution to my current problem.  I clamp gussets to handbag body right after the glue sets up and sit overnight clamped up and then I remove clamps as I sew ( using cowboy 4500 - cylinder machine) In some sections seams are together but in many small section they are seperated. Tomorrow I plan to try different leather to see if I get the same thing. I appreciate any ideas as a way to fill in the gaps along the edge. Sincerely

xoxo

 

[BDAZ]

4 hours ago, nrk said:

if the edges separate from each other then you're doing something wrong.

edge paint will do the job, unless you want the edges looks good. but you have already stated 'not looking for perfection' - this confuses

If you are referring to the above post separation is due to stress on the seams after wet forming which causes stretching and stress on the seams. I can sometimes use white glue in a syringe and clamp but it's tedious. The silicone caulk wouldn't take edge paint and other types didn't bind well or have enough body to bead. Plastic wood didn't hold. maybe wood or leather white glue with powdered leather as a filler may do the job. To busy building to experiment at the moment.

 

Bob

[garypl]

Carmela, I have sewn embossed cowhide and to make edges smooth and tight, I put the edges in my vise and cranked the jaws tight.  Flattened the edges for @2-3mm so I can glue them together tightly.  Kept a nice closed seam after sewing.

Gary

[BDAZ]

Sounds time consuming and not very economic, unless it's for hobby work.

 

Bob

[RockyAussie]

7 hours ago, carmela said:

Also wondering if the Giardini dense base coat was tried and worked as a Filler?  I was planning to buy that along with the dense edge paint as an alternative to Fiebings. I would try the caulk but I'm using many unique leather colors ( reds, blues, greens, yellows, orange, brown, salmon, purple ) so mixing up batches of edge paint keeps me busy enough. I would love to find a way to make the edges stay together throughout the entire process and not start popping apart in sections after I sew them. I thought it was Barge - maybe I got an old batch from Amazon so I tried the newer version but the same thing happened. I then tried Fiebings and the latest glue I tried and still using after reading about it on the Forum is Aquilim 315 ( from Sorrell Notions & Findings). I love the glue ( odorless ) and definitely comparable to Barge. ( no more Barge headaches or dragging my folding tables outside to glue ) big process improvement! Thank you Leatherworker Forum!  Now I am really hoping to figure out a solution to my current problem.  I clamp gussets to handbag body right after the glue sets up and sit overnight clamped up and then I remove clamps as I sew ( using cowboy 4500 - cylinder machine) In some sections seams are together but in many small section they are seperated. Tomorrow I plan to try different leather to see if I get the same thing. I appreciate any ideas as a way to fill in the gaps along the edge. Sincerely

xoxo

 

I see lots of problems here, and having just gone through my photo collections I can not see any that can show enough to be much help. I will try and get something together over the next few days. First up for now you will find it of help if in the corner of the gusset you take out a small V section to relieve the pressure there. There should be no edging done until the pieces are put together and sanded smooth and rounded. In some cases it could be stitched first if that helps by allowing the stitch to be in from the edge enough to allow later sanding but I usually prefer to get the sanding done first and sometimes a couple of edge coats done to assist it to stay together. A tip that should help is the use of a heat gun which if used carefully will reactivate the glue and allow you to reshape and press down all the up and down wobbly bits. This can also be used to singe away some of the furry leather bits after sanding before the edge coat application.

The Cowboy 4500 is most likely too large for this job a bit especially with the standard feet and throat plate. Do not try and stitch so close to the edge or your under/bobbin side will be all over the place. You may find this post of interest-

I have to get some work done for now so I will try and get you some more info later.

Brian

[carmela]

Thank you! I will try a heat gun on my next bag. The pic of blue bag was one I tried some edge paint on prior to sewing to see if it helped tack it down or fill in gaps but it just created a wobbly edge ( I tried the V cutouts on some rounded flap bags but they were hidden on underside - I wouldn't have thought about trying on the outer edge of gusset )  I stitched further back from the edge on this gusset & need to even it up with a fresh blade & then will try the heatgun. I ordered a welt foot from my dealer Cowboy Bob at Toldeo Ind and will try piping on some bags but I prefer the edge painted look so I'm not giving up. I ordered the dense basecoat & paint from the place in Italy recommended earlier in the thread ( GIARDINI) it sounds very thick so maybe that will help.  I have some thick leather ( mellowtan chap leather from Hidehouse in Nappa) that comes in many colors and looking forward to transitioning to that. I really should try sewing the gussets on the 1541 flatbed but I'm so used to 4500 and love the cylinder & reverse. Thank you for taking the time to help me. I appreciate it very much. ( PS-your leather business looks amazing- gorgeous bags & love your farm):O)