Chinese knock offs

[Nightshade]

Has anyone tried or seen reviews for the Chinese knock offs of machines like the Juki DDL8700?

 

I'm getting into machine sewn holsters and knife sheaths. I've looked at a Juki DNU1541S and Cowboy 3200. But cost is a factor to see if these lines will be a viable addition. I'm also looking for a machine that can handle thinner garment, 2-4oz layers, for some of the reenactor and biker stuff I do. 

 

Heres a link to a knock of I saw...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sewing-Machine-with-Table-Servo-Motor-Stand-LED-Lamp-Quality-Stitcher-Manual/392106527423?_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D53210%26meid%3D3f7afaddf679482190d37e4ec6f7eb3b%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D173283495047%26itm%3D392106527423&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

[TomG]

The listing says it's a chain stitch machine.  If I remember correctly, that's the type of stitch that you see on top of dog food bags so you can remove a lock stitch at one end and pull the thread end. You literally unzip the bag. Not what you want for leather, clothing or any durable goods.

Plus, it sounds pretty lightweight. 

Hopefully, someone much more knowledgable than me will chime in.

Tom

[Nightshade]

I did some more poking and it looks like the same California Chinese sales group, the ones that have 126 different seller ids all selling the same stuff within pennies of the same price, are selling Juki 8700s complete for $700 shipped.

 

I just don't know if the 8700 will do what I want. I'd like to get the Cowboy 3200, but he wants $1650, that's almost new cost less shipping.

 

 Then I saw this...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Extra-Heavy-Single-Needle-Cylinder-Bed-Compound-Feed-Walking-Foot-Sewing-Machine/142027698300?hash=item211182b07c:g:cCUAAOSw1ZBUuGLq

[billybopp]

Personally, I wouldn't risk buying one of these and would buy from a known reputable dealer such as the ones listed in banner ads up at the top of the page here at LWN.  They go through the machines they sell and set them up properly to sew leather before delivery to you.  They also provide superb after-sales support both here and by phone.  If you buy a no-name machine, you may be totally on your own for initial setup, parts and support.   Unless you have LOTS of experience with industrial sewing machines, that is certainly worth the relatively small price difference.

Just my opinion, FWIW

- Bill

[kgg]

Hi Nightshade,

You are looking at three different machines made for doing three different functions. The Chinese machine on ebay is listed as a chain stitch machine which is made mostly for the garment industry you need a lockstitch, the Juki 1541S is a good machine but I wouldn't attempt to use mine for anything close to holster work where as the Cowboy CB3200 would I think be the smallest size to do some types of holster work.

If the cost of a new machine is above the budget I would visit a brick / mortar dealer and bring along a sample of what you are wanting to sew to test drive a good used machine. I would stay away from the Chinese knockoffs on ebay and deal with someone who will give you support. You will need to decide which type of machine will give you the best bang for your buck capable of doing what you mostly do. Flatbed vs Cylinder vs Cylinder with table top attachment.

kgg

 

[Wizcrafts]

@Nightshade

I have an entire sewing room full of industrial and non-industrial sewing machines. Some are heavier duty than others. What I have learned over the decades I've been doing this are that one should purchase the best built machines that can perform particular desired jobs best and with the least downtime and that have plenty of aftermarket or real market parts available.

To that end, while my primary bevy of machines are all walking foot or patcher machines, I do have one straight stitch tailoring machine that is best used on garments and satin linings. That machine is a 1920s Singer 31-15. It shares an industrial 20x48 inch table with an early model Singer 111w153 walking foot machine. I swap out the walking font machine for the 31-15, move the knee lever and adjust the motor position to accommodate the bottom feeder. That ancient Singer machine does a beautiful job on materials too light for any walking foot mechanism. Best of all I only paid $180 for that machine, including the table (Craigslist ad). I did swap out the old clutch motor for a servo motor I got from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines.

If you search your local (SC) Craigslist you can probably find some inexpensive low speed (manually oiled) Singer or Consew sewing machines, or even real Juki machines at a price you can afford. Then you will have enough left to order a brand new CB3200.

BTW: Since you plan to sew holsters and sheathes, consider saving up for a full blown CB4500 instead. It sews over 3/4 inch, while the 3200 stops at 1/2 inch.

[Nightshade]

 I'm looking at a couple of used on local CL, an Artisan 618-1SC, a Singer 112w140 and a Singer 128 that was refurbished. I have one that needs a good cleaning and tune up but is much too light for anything more than 2 thicknesses of garment. I also have a White Rotary, 50s vintage, good for about the same.

 

To start with my plan was to make concealment holsters and mad pouches then reinvest in a better machine, like the 4500, for cowboy or duty type work. Retasking the starter machine to chaps and saddlebags after getting the bigger machine.

[kgg]

Forget the Singer 128 it is a domestic sewing machine that has a vibrating shuttle, a long thin bobbin, with low capacity that rest inside a boat shaped shuttle. The very max thread size that I could push through with the 127's and 128's I once owned was v92 and the shuttle a lot of times will not work properly from one machine to another. If you are looking at portable machine with a walking foot consider machines like Reliable Barracuda or a Techsew 611. These are about $500 US new.

kgg

[dikman]

Cost is nearly always a factor, but if you have a market for your products then the initial outlay will be money well spent. If you're purely a hobbyist, as many on here are, then it can be hard to justify the expenditure. If all you're going to make is pancake-type concealed holsters then a CB3200 would be a great machine, but if you intend doing Western-style holsters then you'll really need a CB4500, anything smaller is not going to be suitable.

[Nightshade]

What I mostly make is stuff for reenactors and medieval faires. I have a bit of extra money and I'm looking to reinvest. I'm also recovering from rotator cuff surgery and wont be able to do much until around the first of the year.

 

I'm trying to move more to a wholesale/consignment business model rather than direct retail in that market and expanding into other area like holsters and motorcycle leather.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Nightshade

[brmax]

In my experience it is much easier on a person and purchaser to first focus on the machine needed to do the specific job with great ability. I say that to avoid any self enticement toward particular machines that maybe could if “ doing this “ or under this certain change.

I think in your products soley as a biz for visual and reenactment products. The thread could be smaller in a security stand point yet the machines effeciency to produce the products ( on either end of your spectrum) is just not there in both scenarios, just as a director simply needs additional actor in the same scene. Its just not fun for the same actor to go do a change up for a different person. 

The options possibly could be materials used in your products being more compatible for a machine size selection.

To me the wholesale/consignment is again two distinct business model differences. In that consignment is always involved with a rental space cost.

Im positive we all would like to help here and respectfully a bit more narrowing of choices can help your final decisions. 

 

Good day

Floyd

 

 

[kgg]

It sounds more like a production type run where you are planning on doing more then one of's so I would advise you to buy new or good used industrial equipment. Equipment that can handle the total thickness / toughness of the items day in and day out without having to figure out work around's. It will mean a larger cash outlay up front but you will be able to take on any project from the start. It would be more cost effective in the long run to purchase too much capability up front, CB3200 vs CB 4500, then need the extra ability.

kgg

[Nightshade]

The more research I'm doing and your suggestions, I'm leaning towards the Juki DNU1541 or one with equivalent capabilities. It will easily take care of what I need to get things started. Then I'll look into a heavier machine for heavier work, like the 4500 or a 441.

 

I'm not in a hurry. I'll keep my eyes open and see if I can find a deal.

[kgg]

If you decide on the Juki 1541 or one of the clone equivalents get the Juki 1541S. The "S" stays for safety mechanism so if you overload or jam up the machine it disengages itself and is easily reset after clearing the fault by the push of a button on the bed. The cost differences between both models is only about $100, cheap insurance against buckled internal parts.

Before purchasing a 1541 clone make sure you test it first then try the Juki. If dollars are not going to be the major factor I think you will lean towards the Juki on sound, feel, finish, availability of accessories / parts and reputation. It definitely will not sound like a bucket of bolts banging around fresh out of the box like some of the cheap clones.

kgg

[Nightshade]

I've seen the Juki in action. A friend uses it sew leather bags and garments. They modified a horsemans tunic for me with it by sewing in a 10/11oz latigo belt.

 

I like the idea of an arm machine like Cowboy has but for the future plans I think the flatbed would be better. I might do some drawing with the attachable flatbed and rolling it into a larger table.

 

I'm in no hurry.

[kgg]

Now it sounds like you have a game plan.

Best of luck,

kgg

[Nightshade]

Wish I could get to Ohio...

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F283121730430

[CowboyBob]

  On 8/28/2018 at 11:31 AM, Nightshade said:

Wish I could get to Ohio...

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F283121730430

Expand  

That's a great deal almost 1/2 price!

[Nightshade]

It's an 8hr trip and the seller wont ship. I have friends closer but none who can get it for me or even do a relay

[dikman]

If it was me I'd already be half-way there .

[Jbinpa59]

 

Pretty much what I did 3 years ago 

Bought a cb4500 standard trim model and a few extras off eBay for $1650 from a seller that wouldn't ship and claimed in listing i'd need a truck to pick it up (which btw is what kept the bids down)

Won the auction, threw a socket set and a couple moving blankets in my honda 

And made a run to columbia SC from western PA.      9-10hrs each way

Pulled the head off the table

The table off the post

post off the base

It'll fit in the back seat of anything bigger than a smart for two you don't need a truck 

the deals are out there if you're patient, diligent in watching for them are willing to trade some time And effort for price

And most importantly are ready to buy cash in hand now

Btw I've got friends in spartanburg i need to visit

 

[Matt S]

  On 9/8/2018 at 8:38 PM, Jbinpa59 said:

 

Pretty much what I did 3 years ago 

Bought a cb4500 standard trim model and a few extras off eBay for $1650 from a seller that wouldn't ship and claimed in listing i'd need a truck to pick it up (which btw is what kept the bids down)

Won the auction, threw a socket set and a couple moving blankets in my honda 

And made a run to columbia SC from western PA.      9-10hrs each way

Pulled the head off the table

The table off the post

post off the base

It'll fit in the back seat of anything bigger than a smart for two you don't need a truck 

the deals are out there if you're patient, diligent in watching for them are willing to trade some time And effort for price

Expand  

Three times I've rocked up to collect a machine in my little VW Polo and the guy's told me it'll never fit. Even my 310lb harness stitcher fit just fine with the head unbolted. Sure beats hiring a truck. Last week I got a bargain on a Seiko from a warehouse an hour's drive away. Had the head in the passenger footwell and the full size table (with clutch motor) on its side into the back in five minutes then went to look for the man. "Need a hand?" he asked. "Nah just wondered where you wanted the pallet truck left." "Cocky bugger!"

[R8R]

I'm reading that eBay ad in the first post and cracking up. What a train wreck of an ad. The description is for a portable chainstitch bag-closer machine, not a tabled lockstitch machine. Slap any old sewing machine pics and mix and match a description - then take the money and run.

 

The 1541S is a great machine as is the 1508, etc.

 

If you do need a drop feed machine for garment work, and you look at a Juki or a Juki clone, check Craig's List as they always seem to pop up there. A decent Juki can be had for about $500 or less. (or a Brother DB series, etc)

Keep in mind - the Juki 8700 type is a slightly heavier duty machine than the Juki 5500 type. The 5500 type (5550, etc) are light weight machines built purely for garment production speed.

With swapped out feed dogs, needle plate, etc the 8700 can handle some heavier garment fabrics, denim, light canvas, etc.

 

 

 

[R8R]

  On 8/25/2018 at 5:33 PM, Nightshade said:

 I'm looking at a couple of used on local CL, an Artisan 618-1SC, a Singer 112w140 and a Singer 128 that was refurbished.

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That Artisan is a good bet if it's been well cared for. Decent upholstery class machine. I think they are Mitsubishi clones. (Reliable 4000SW is basically the same machine) Horizontal hook, much like the 1541's.

The Singer 112W is a DOUBLE NEEDLE machine.

[Nightshade]

Well I was ready get a Juki 341 clone from a local seller but said it might take me a bit extra time to pick it because of scheduling around the hurricane. Well they made some smart comment and lost a $1200 sale.