Looking for advice on a stitch groover

[geargarcon]

I’ve already asked this on a few corners of the internet and was hoping everyone here might chime in as well.

 

I’m trying to decide between the Barry King and Bob Douglas stitch groovers.  Truthfully I’m sure both are great and would do exactly what I need.  That being said, is there anyone who has experience with both who could advise one way or another?  Or anyone who has either one of them who could provide some feedback?

 

cheers,

gg

[Alisdair]

I bought a crimson groover...it's an absolute beauty!

https://crimsonhides.com/products/crimson-groover

[Rockoboy]

1 hour ago, Alisdair said:

it's an absolute beauty!

It would have to be pretty damned good to be worth $90USD!

[geargarcon]

3 hours ago, Alisdair said:

I bought a crimson groover...it's an absolute beauty!

https://crimsonhides.com/products/crimson-groover

I didn’t realize he made a groover.  I’ve heard great things about his tools.  Although this now only further complicates things.  It looks to be just a brass version of the Versa groover.  Does that seem to be a fair evaluation?

[immiketoo]

Crimson looks like a near exact copy of Douglas.  I have the Douglas, and several others.  It's by FAR the easiest to use and get consistent lines.  Buy the different sized tips, or just get the small one.  There;s not a lot of call for stitching with rope  Best money I've spent on a groover, and I have a Danny Marlin as well.

[chrisash]

Personally I prefer all the tool Handle's to be square or rectangle to i can feel there in the right place, where as round ones you just don't instinctively know, it's like a flat sides Awl you just know when the flat side is in your hand its at the correct angle

It's always hard to select as price does not always mean better and we can be influenced by a rare and exotic wooded handle, over the quality of the steel.  and our upbringing in society that marketing tells us, the more you spend the better the item

That's why they call me the "Grumpy old man"

[geargarcon]

17 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Personally I prefer all the tool Handle's to be square or rectangle to i can feel there in the right place, where as round ones you just don't instinctively know, it's like a flat sides Awl you just know when the flat side is in your hand its at the correct angle

It's always hard to select as price does not always mean better and we can be influenced by a rare and exotic wooded handle, over the quality of the steel.  and our upbringing in society that marketing tells us, the more you spend the better the item

That's why they call me the "Grumpy old man"

That’s a great point regarding flat vs rounded sides!  I will often be using it without the edge guide and I hadn’t considered that I might inadvertently rotate it in those situations.

52 minutes ago, immiketoo said:

Crimson looks like a near exact copy of Douglas.  I have the Douglas, and several others.  It's by FAR the easiest to use and get consistent lines.  Buy the different sized tips, or just get the small one.  There;s not a lot of call for stitching with rope  Best money I've spent on a groover, and I have a Danny Marlin as well.

Yes!  I am definitely being distracted by the beautiful wood handle on the Barry King and I’m always a sucker for anything brass like the Crimson Hides tool.

[Alisdair]

1 hour ago, geargarcon said:

I didn’t realize he made a groover.  I’ve heard great things about his tools.  Although this now only further complicates things.  It looks to be just a brass version of the Versa groover.  Does that seem to be a fair evaluation?

There's a little cap on top that can be unscrewed, so as to store different sized tips inside the tool. Quite useful if you have several tips (I have 1 mm and 2 mm) Dunno if the versa groover does that. Apart from that, they're pretty much identical.

[Matt S]

12 hours ago, geargarcon said:

I’ve already asked this on a few corners of the internet and was hoping everyone here might chime in as well.

 

I’m trying to decide between the Barry King and Bob Douglas stitch groovers.  Truthfully I’m sure both are great and would do exactly what I need.  That being said, is there anyone who has experience with both who could advise one way or another?  Or anyone who has either one of them who could provide some feedback?

 

cheers,

gg

Evenin, GG.

Perhaps not a popular opinion or one you're seeking, but I really don't like stitch groovers or the effect they achieve on the seam, except in the very few circumstances where their effect is necessary. Leaving the stitches semi-proud of the surface is perfectly fine in 90+% of circumstances, and I think gives a more impressive tactile and visual effect than burying them. I'm sure both of these groovers are excellent quality but I can think of some far better uses of the $$$ 

Just my two cents as they say. No offence intended, I'm sure you know what you're doing and the effect you want to achieve. Certainly not trying to tell you how to spend your beer tokens, just offering a slightly different perspective.

[immiketoo]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

Evenin, GG.

Perhaps not a popular opinion or one you're seeking, but I really don't like stitch groovers or the effect they achieve on the seam, except in the very few circumstances where their effect is necessary. Leaving the stitches semi-proud of the surface is perfectly fine in 90+% of circumstances, and I think gives a more impressive tactile and visual effect than burying them. I'm sure both of these groovers are excellent quality but I can think of some far better uses of the $$$ 

Just my two cents as they say. No offence intended, I'm sure you know what you're doing and the effect you want to achieve. Certainly not trying to tell you how to spend your beer tokens, just offering a slightly different perspective.

I actually agree with this 100%  I rarely use a groover anymore, but when I do, its nice to have one that works.

[plinkercases]

For those who do not use a groover I assume you also do not tap the stiches down with a cobblers hammer afterwards?

I am still working out which approach I prefer as I still see advantages to both and am not afraid of the groover boogie man of weaken the leather (as I don't groove on anything less than 6 oz) I also don't groove deeply....

I suspect I am leaning towards just scoring a line to follow....

[geargarcon]

4 hours ago, Matt S said:

Evenin, GG.

Perhaps not a popular opinion or one you're seeking, but I really don't like stitch groovers or the effect they achieve on the seam, except in the very few circumstances where their effect is necessary. Leaving the stitches semi-proud of the surface is perfectly fine in 90+% of circumstances, and I think gives a more impressive tactile and visual effect than burying them. I'm sure both of these groovers are excellent quality but I can think of some far better uses of the $$$ 

Just my two cents as they say. No offence intended, I'm sure you know what you're doing and the effect you want to achieve. Certainly not trying to tell you how to spend your beer tokens, just offering a slightly different perspective.

So I actually don’t intend to use it for stitching.  I plan on using it to cut channels in thicker leather to facilitate folding and molding corners in bag gussets.  While the channel won’t be as visible as it would be on a stitch line, I want something that is easy to use and leaves a clean cut.

[geargarcon]

3 hours ago, plinkercases said:

For those who do not use a groover I assume you also do not tap the stiches down with a cobblers hammer afterwards?

I am still working out which approach I prefer as I still see advantages to both and am not afraid of the groover boogie man of weaken the leather (as I don't groove on anything less than 6 oz) I also don't groove deeply....

I suspect I am leaning towards just scoring a line to follow....

I only mark a line, I do not cut a groove.  But I do tamp down the stitch line with a cobblers hammer afterwards.

[Matt S]

3 hours ago, plinkercases said:

For those who do not use a groover I assume you also do not tap the stiches down with a cobblers hammer afterwards?

I suspect I am leaning towards just scoring a line to follow....

Heavier stuff I rarely tap as I find it tends to sit neater than lighter work, and I like the feel of the stitches slightly proud. Lighter stuff I will tap if it's a little uneven, or to encourage the thread to fill the awl holes better if they're looking a little empty.

6 minutes ago, geargarcon said:

So I actually don’t intend to use it for stitching.  I plan on using it to cut channels in thicker leather to facilitate folding and molding corners in bag gussets.  While the channel won’t be as visible as it would be on a stitch line, I want something that is easy to use and leaves a clean cut.

Perhaps you are looking for something that makes a particularly narrow channel but have you looked at a V- or U-gouge, or perhaps even a race? These are designed for exactly this purpose and often have a flat facet which can be run along a straight edge. They have a blade that's less likely to jam up when taking a heavy cut than a stitch groover, though in all honesty the only true stitch groover I've used is an Ivan, which is certainly not the best quality.

[geargarcon]

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

Heavier stuff I rarely tap as I find it tends to sit neater than lighter work, and I like the feel of the stitches slightly proud. Lighter stuff I will tap if it's a little uneven, or to encourage the thread to fill the awl holes better if they're looking a little empty.

Perhaps you are looking for something that makes a particularly narrow channel but have you looked at a V- or U-gouge, or perhaps even a race? These are designed for exactly this purpose and often have a flat facet which can be run along a straight edge. They have a blade that's less likely to jam up when taking a heavy cut than a stitch groover, though in all honesty the only true stitch groover I've used is an Ivan, which is certainly not the best quality.

I don’t want to remove very much leather and I want a high level of consistency which is why I am looking for a stitch groover rather than a v or u gouge.

[ScoobyNewbie]

It depends on whether I have thick braided thread or the hemp thread. Thick thread I usually hammer down, I feel that the thinner hemp thread is pretty flat already.