US new China Import duties how will it affect sewing machine prices

[chrisash]

I read today that China is to be charged a massive amount starting at 10% and going next year to 25% on US import duties, so you guys in the states can expect massive increases in the imported sewing machines very soon, so if in doubt probably a good time to rush out and buy now if you want a new machine

Not sure how it will effect the rest of us but as I imagine the US is the largest market, there could be a flood of machines on the market

[alpha2]

My understanding is that the tariffs are targeted to goods also made in the USA, goods that China has massif tarriffs on our goods coming into China. I don't see many US made industrial stitchers, if any, I could be wrong.

Jeff  

[ComputerDoctor]

GOOD

Maybe these actions at trade parity will allow someone-anyone, to develop and produce HD leather sewing machines and other consumer products in the United States, using our resources and American CITIZENS for labor. Fair is fair:)

Sam

[chrisash]

Just a follow up on the new duties , here is the list

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/Tariff List_09.17.18.pdf

section 4107 effects leather

section  8208 knifes and other tools

Section 5204 all sewing threads

Section 8452 all sewing machines

It was a bit boring going through the list

[Constabulary]

6 hours ago, ComputerDoctor said:

GOOD

Maybe these actions at trade parity will allow someone-anyone, to develop and produce HD leather sewing machines and other consumer products in the United States, using our resources and American CITIZENS for labor. Fair is fair:)

Sam

As sad as it is but I guess most small businesses or hobbyist could not afford these machines then.

These days are over! I think when an labor intensive industry is down once it will not rise again. Lets dig out Isaak Merritt Singer, lets see what he says.

When did Singer quit making industrial sewing machines in the US and UK? 30 / 40 years ago?

So keep the old cast iron alive - it´s worth it - I always said that

 

Talking US made stitchers:

Windham Cub, Luberto Classic, Campbell / Randall Lockstitch... so it´s not that you don´t have them... but...

Edited September 18, 2018 by Constabulary

[Matt S]

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

As sad as it is but I guess most small businesses or hobbyist could not afford these machines then.

These days are over! I think when an labor intensive industry is down once it will not rise again. Lets dig out Isaak Merritt Singer, lets see what he says.

When did Singer quit making industrial sewing machines in the US and UK? 30 / 40 years ago?

So keep the old cast iron alive - it´s worth it - I always said that

Singer Kilbowie closed in 1980. I believe that's when the U classes came about, Seiko machines rebadged as Singer. BUSM continued until 2000, though I don't think they were making any sewing machines by that stage.

I doubt even a 25% tariff on Chinese machines is going to have any effect other than putting up the retail price by a similar amount. Premium machines are two or more times the price of a Chinese copy of the same model. Compare the price of a CB4500 against that of a Juki TSC-441 -- even after a 25% price rise there's going to be a lot of small custom shops and hobbyists going for the clone. It's still a fraction of the price of a "real" one. I'd have to check with someone like @gottaknow but I don't think many American factories make much use of Chinese made machines -- the longevity and reliability just aren't good enough working full-speed 2,000+ man-hours per year. So perhaps these tariffs might tip a few potential purchasers closer towards a premium machine rather than a Chinese one, or perhaps to rebuilt vintage/classic/used machines. However these are still going to be the small custom makers and hobbyists that buy maybe a machine every few years, rather than volume production factories, which will buy a dozen or more machines at a go.

There's not going to be a lot of sewing machine factories get built in the US any time soon. Sadly.

[bikermutt07]

I think it will all settle itself down before long. The Chinese and others have had high tariffs on American goods for decades. Pretty much since the end of WWII. 

Our president is just trying to level a playing field that has been lopsided for a long time.

We just need zero tariffs in a world market. That will make it a real fair trade market. 

And I'm all for that.

[RegisD]

What bikermutt07 said. 

[garypl]

Prices to the end users may not go up 25% because the tariffs are based on landed cost.  The distributors will have to decide how much of the tariff they will absorb and how much will be passed along to the end user.  I am hoping that both parties will come to the table and come up with an equitable agreement for both sides and tariffs will be lowered or reversed.

Gary

[Constabulary]

taxes makes sense in some cases - they can protect industries / markets from being swamped with cheap Chinese products or products from other foreign / cheap labor countries. It depends on the market. But in a globalized world its hard to control all that especially when items come in in small numbers through Ebay and Alibaba / Ali Express and so forth.

Taxes on sewing machines do not make much sense because there is no serious sewing machine industry in the US anymore - or? I think there are probably a few smaller manufacturer who still make sewing machines for special applications, right? Or do they meanwhile all modify import sewing machines? I honestly do not know. Nowadays often some foreign investors bought the brand names and put on some stickers with the "good old names"...

Keep the old Singers running... 

Oh - BTW if we need Singer 111 parts we have to check with some African countries. Read this?

https://www.army.mil/article/146004/munitions_manufacturing_equipment_finds_new_life_in_african_peacekeeping_mission

Different topic but interesting to read too:

https://www.army.mil/article/146104/clothing_repair_taught_for_final_time_at_quartermaster_school

[chrisash]

Well as the say how things are different between two countries, in my time (12 years) in the Royal Navy we never had any repair staff for uniforms, just issued with a small housewife sewing kit of some thread, buttons, needles and darning cotton and told to do it all ourselves, I think our other forces were the same

Back to the subject, sewing machines regardless where they are made, most components are probably made by different firms using cad controlled machines to keep the standard high, but assembly is the area where low cost labor play's a major cost saving, I seriously doubt there is any real difference between clones and Juki these days, apart from Juki having the highly skilled design staff where as other countries just copy out of date patent designs. That's not to say all Chinese goods are assembled well in fact we can all name items with missing screws etc

In the UK we learnt many years ago you cannot compete with low cost economies in labor hense we lost ship building and many other industries and now rely on high tech and services

[bikermutt07]

@chrisash a lot of times industries move to cheaper countries because their nation of origin taxes them too much. This is how America was robbed of it's great industrial might. 

It wasn't labor costs that sent our companies over seas as much as it was our greedy politicians and the "EPA". I'm sure labor costs played a part, but not as much as one might think.

Inflation in our country ( also caused by greedy politicians ) probably played a more significant part in making labor costs look much higher.

[CowboyBob]

Yes,I just got the news a couple days ago & it starts on 9-24 any imported machines will have 10% on them & after 1-1-19 it's going up to 25% so if you've been setting on the fence about a machine you better make your mind up soon.Or it will cost you more $$.

[chrisash]

Unfortunately when the prices go up in this artificial way, even when its all sorted out the prices never drop back to the old prices just drop a small amount, so maker and middle men make more money at expense of the buyers 

[bullmoosepaddles]

@CowboyBob Do you have an estimate of the differences at this point? The tax will only apply to the import price I assume?  

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

55 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Unfortunately when the prices go up in this artificial way, even when its all sorted out the prices never drop back to the old prices just drop a small amount, so maker and middle men make more money at expense of the buyers 

Yep, kind of like the cattle/beef market.

[Constabulary]

I would not count on that - you never know - when a new player / competitor enters the game the price could drop again. it also depends on how much a dealer already has stocked. If you have a good number of machines in stock you can hold the price for a while and in 2 years (most likely) you  have a new president anyway and then cards are being reshuffled again. Time will tell.

[bikermutt07]

14 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

I would not count on that - you never know - when a new player / competitor enters the game the price could drop again. it also depends on how much a dealer already has stocked. If you have a good number of machines in stock you can hold the price for a while and in 2 years (most likely) you  have a new president anyway and then cards are being reshuffled again. Time will tell.

I'm not sure I would make that 2 year bet...

The opposition to our current president doesn't have a single candidate in play that could give him a run for his money. 

America is waking up to the tired old millionaire white politicians ( Republican and Democrat ) claiming to be for the little guy and minorities.

Not trying to go all political or anything, it's just what I am observing.

[Constabulary]

41 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

America is waking up to the tired old millionaire white politicians ( Republican and Democrat ) claiming to be for the little guy and minorities.

I understand that!

Lots of people over here are sick of their government too - and its not getting better. Just yesterday they promoted the chief of the intelligence service because of several frailties - What - kidding me ? Sorry too complicated to explain the whole story in English. They really provoke it and scratching their head why they are going to loose (or already have lost) a lot voters. And that is just one sample...

** deleted what else I wanted to write - don´t want a political discussion here **

reg. 2 years - I take that bet - lets bet for 2 packs of 135x17 / 135x16 needles (no Chinese needles - they will be to expensive then )

Edited September 19, 2018 by Constabulary

[LetterT]

2 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

America is waking up to the tired old millionaire white politicians ( Republican and Democrat ) claiming to be for the little guy and minorities.

There was an excellent photo I have seen on the recent trade talks between China and US, the age gap between two parties was astounding. I found it, New York Times link https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/business/china-trade-talks.html

 

[Constabulary]

10 minutes ago, LetterT said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/business/china-trade-talks.html

Ha - I think I spotted Mr. Burns

[bikermutt07]

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

I understand that!

Lots of people over here are sick of their government too - and its not getting better. Just yesterday they promoted the chief of the intelligence service because of several frailties - What - kidding me ? Sorry too complicated to explain the whole story in English. They really provoke it and scratching their head why they are going to loose (or already have lost) a lot voters. And that is just one sample...

** deleted what else I wanted to write - don´t want a political discussion here **

reg. 2 years - I take that bet - lets bet for 2 packs of 135x17 / 135x16 needles (no Chinese needles - they will be to expensive then )

I’ll take that bet. But, if the tariffs are off by then chinese needles will be fine.

Official bet: If Donald Trump is still alive for 2020 election, I bet that he wins.

[alpha2]

On 9/18/2018 at 12:28 PM, chrisash said:

It was a bit boring going through the list

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din!

[480volt]

This site works well because members generally do not bring politics into the discussion. The OP was simply about cost impacts on sewing machines due to the ongoing tariff situation in the US.  If people want to talk politics or state opinion as facts, than they should start another thread.