Getting a chisel scary sharp

[TomWisc]

I just saw this video on sharpening woodworking chisels and thought some of his techniques apply to sharpening leather tools. I didn't check if someone already posted this video but I have not seen it before.

Worth the watch!

 

[bermudahwin]

Everyone develops their own techniques for sharpening, learned through various observations, lessons and experimentation. Thank you for sharing the video.

My note is not about the video, but about the title:

SCARY sharp, should not exist if you are using tools daily.

All of my blades (including axes) are really sharp andfit for purpose. The guy in the video would say scary sharp; I say properly sharp.

DO NOT TRY THIS: I am not suggeting or recommending this as a way to test blades... I can shave with all of those knives I have tried (keep the 10 in cooks knife away, as I cannot guide it around the chin without removing nose).

You cannot be scared of your blades or you will cut yourself. Get the proper tools properly sharpened for the job; too blunt they'll snag and jump - ooh bad cut there and the cut is jagged so healing's harder. Properly sharp, far less likely to snag, unless you are scared of it...

I know its semantics, but I once drove 20 minutes to a friend with a horror cut, where the tomato knife  had not cut the tomato, but had cut her hand. The ragged cut made fun cleaning and butterfly stitching, but she has just a light scar as a reminder. The knife was BLUNT so I sharpened it, and taught her how to handle sharp knives and keep them sharp... she had been worried that they were too sharp as she had kids in the house. That was a whole nother lesson.

[Danne]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:44 AM, hwinbermuda said:

Everyone develops their own techniques for sharpening, learned through various observations, lessons and experimentation. Thank you for sharing the video.

My note is not about the video, but about the title:

SCARY sharp, should not exist if you are using tools daily.

All of my blades (including axes) are really sharp andfit for purpose. The guy in the video would say scary sharp; I say properly sharp.

DO NOT TRY THIS: I am not suggeting or recommending this as a way to test blades... I can shave with all of those knives I have tried (keep the 10 in cooks knife away, as I cannot guide it around the chin without removing nose).

You cannot be scared of your blades or you will cut yourself. Get the proper tools properly sharpened for the job; too blunt they'll snag and jump - ooh bad cut there and the cut is jagged so healing's harder. Properly sharp, far less likely to snag, unless you are scared of it...

I know its semantics, but I once drove 20 minutes to a friend with a horror cut, where the tomato knife  had not cut the tomato, but had cut her hand. The ragged cut made fun cleaning and butterfly stitching, but she has just a light scar as a reminder. The knife was BLUNT so I sharpened it, and taught her how to handle sharp knives and keep them sharp... she had been worried that they were too sharp as she had kids in the house. That was a whole nother lesson.

 

When I started with leathercraft I couldn't sharpen my knives, and I needed a lot of force to skive. Now I have learned how to sharpen and not only did it give me more consistent results, It also gives me more possibilities to skive at "awkward" angles.  Sometimes I hold my leather down and skive between thumb and index finger. Which would be really dangerous with a blunt knife.

[bikermutt07]

4 hours ago, Danne said:

 

When I started with leathercraft I couldn't sharpen my knives, and I needed a lot of force to skive. Now I have learned how to sharpen and not only did it give me more consistent results, It also gives me more possibilities to skive at "awkward" angles.  Sometimes I hold my leather down and skive between thumb and index finger. Which would be really dangerous with a blunt knife.

Yep, I didn't know I would have to learn to sharpen when I started in leather. Just one of the many techniques you have to aquire along the journey. 

Most of my sharpening goes to my Kalamazoo 1x 42 belt sander. It makes life so much easier. I think it cost me about 300 bucks, but it was a great investment. I'm sure it will outlast me.

[Danne]

11 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

Yep, I didn't know I would have to learn to sharpen when I started in leather. Just one of the many techniques you have to aquire along the journey. 

Most of my sharpening goes to my Kalamazoo 1x 42 belt sander. It makes life so much easier. I think it cost me about 300 bucks, but it was a great investment. I'm sure it will outlast me.

I often hear people complaining about how hard it is to skive with consistent results. I think those people would think it's quite easy if they used a really sharp knife and skive with the bevel down. (I don't say it's the wrong way to use the flat side down, but I think most people would think it's easier with the bevel down.)

I use sandpaper for sharpening. But I plan to buy one SK11 150-600 for reshaping bevels and flattening whetstones, and two whetstones (Shapton Kuromaku 1000 and 5000) 

I just had to comment on this "I'm not paying 80 bucks for a belt!!! It's a strip of leather."  I don't think people in general understand that 80 bucks is not that much money for a belt, compared to the cheap belt for 15 bucks, which you throw in the trash after a couple of years. (split leather with a finish.)

Edited February 25, 2019 by Danne

[OwenSweenie]

Thank you very much, everyone! This is worth a try.

[NeilMott]

Hey all.

I'm a bit late to this thread.  A few questions to clarify: 

it's ok to push and pull on a whetstone?  

Any preference on a set of diamond stones?  I have a 3000/8000 whetstone but I think both are really too fine to get my chisel and my skiving knife sharp.  I think they are too fine by themselves.

I also find it a bit easier to skive with a chisel...Danne, you're saying you skive with the flat side up?  I will have to try this.  

Neil

[MikeRock]

Danne,

The term 'scary sharp' came from the Old Tools site.  Twenty some years back there was a thread on sharpening, everything from using an old flat rock to diamond stones and water stones, even finishing with buffing.

We regard tools with some reverence even, and 'scary sharp' means properly sharp if you will.  There is some limit to just how sharp a tool should be to be useful, and also some limit on how dull we should work before sharpening.   I don't know the list population as of today but it is a good number of folks.  Some of the 'scary sharp' stuff involves working with graded abrasive papers on a backing plate, whether an old chunk of granite or a plate glass chunk.   Down to 2000 grit with just those papers I can shave my forearm easily.  Stroping, as we do with head knives, applies to wood working tools as well, from a pocket whittling knife to the finest compound curves on a molding plane blade.

[MikeRock]

oldtools@swingleydev.com <oldtools@swingleydev.com>

[zuludog]

On 10/14/2019 at 12:49 AM, NeilMott said:

Hey all.

I'm a bit late to this thread.  A few questions to clarify: 

it's ok to push and pull on a whetstone?  

Any preference on a set of diamond stones?  I have a 3000/8000 whetstone but I think both are really too fine to get my chisel and my skiving knife sharp.  I think they are too fine by themselves.

I also find it a bit easier to skive with a chisel...Danne, you're saying you skive with the flat side up?  I will have to try this.  

Neil

Yes, it's OK to push or pull on any kind of sharpening stone - oil, ceramic, water, or diamond, but you must only pull when using wet & dry paper

I'm puzzled by your comment about your stone being too fine to get a sharp edge, as the finer the stone, the sharper should be the cutting edge, and 3000/8000 followed by a stropping should give you an excellent sharp cutting edge

But if your chisel is blunt to start with, then you could get it into the correct angle first by using coarser stones.

Once you have the edge sharpened on the 3000/8000 stone you should very rarely need to go back to anything coarser; so as a coarse grade is only used rarely you could use wet & dry paper, say work through 600, 800, 1000, which would be a bit cheaper than buying another stone, then go to the 3000/8000 stone

You can skive with either side of the chisel, whatever suits you

I suggest you play around with the Search box on YouTube and look for things like - Sharpening a woodworking chisel - sharpening a skiving knife - Japanese leather knife - using a water stone - sharpening a Japanese leather knife, and follow the links & videos, there . Plus, if you search for sharpening a knife there will be loads of videos

[NeilMott]

Hey Zulu.

I appreciate the info.  My chisel is fairly new, so I think maybe it could use a coarser stone to begin with?  I've definitely sliced my fingers here and there so I know it's pretty sharp.  I've almost entirely been working on baseball leather from used gloves.  I have a sense that it's not as easy to work with compared to regular veg tan leather...  

I was surprised to learn from that video that my whetstones will groove but it makes sense.  So I'd need a diamond stone to get it flat anyway right?  Most don't say if they are mono-crystalline diamonds...  Any recommendations for a diamond stone and guide?

Neil

[YinTx]

2 hours ago, NeilMott said:

Any recommendations for a diamond stone

I did this with an Atoma 1200 diamond plate, and a 1000/4000 water stone, followed by a leather strop.  It started with a pretty rough edge that I reprofiled on the diamond plate.

I don't think you need to be fancy, just steady and persistent.  

 

YinTx

[zuludog]

My Dad was a carpenter; I grew up with oilstones as diamond & ceramic stones just weren't around when I was a boy, and that's what I I still use; mainly because I inherited them, and also because - call me old fashioned -  but I just can't get me 'ead round the idea of using water on a sharpening stone. Nevertheless I bought a cheap, coarse diamond stone for rough work, and I accept that it will wear out more quickly. However for finer work I use my oilstones

But as YinTx has stated, it doesn't really matter what you use, as long as you're patient. Here are my comments, though I'm sure there will be other opinions

Oil stones - Not as popular as they were, but they still do the job. Reasonably cheap to buy, and because they've been around for longer you can often find secondhand ones quite cheaply. Try secondhand dealers; flea markets; garage sales. Clean them up as shown in YouTube videos

Japanese water stones - I must admit that I haven't used one, but people do, and manage well enough. Need soaking before use - fairly messy - as I understand it, these stones are designed yo wear as you use them, and it is this slurry of water & grit that does the sharpening. The slurry can be created either as the tool is sharpened or by rubbing the stone with a special type of stone called a NAGURA. this nagura stone is also used to flatten the waterstone as it wears

Ceramic stones - notably Shapton - ceramic bonded to glass - lubricated with water - less messy than water stones

Diamond - lubricated with water - probably easiest to use - with cheap ones the spread of particle size is not as consistent, and the diamonds are more likely to wear off - good ones are expensive

Instead of water on these stones you can get special lubricating solution, or use clear window cleaning spray, or a small amount of washing up liquid in the water

So there you are - yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. And speaking of money, you will find that things can easily get expensive. By all means buy a set of diamond stones if you wish, but as you already appear to have a decent fine stone, my suggestion is that you get a cheap, slightly coarser diamond or water stone, say 800 to 1000 grit to start off your sharpening, then go to the 3000/8000. Once you have the chisels sharp all you should need is a strop and occasionally that fine stone. Treat yourself to some proper honing/stropping compound; I use Veritas, a small bar will last for ages

It's easier to skive leather if you dampen it slightly, especially old or veg tan; experiment to find the right level

You might find this YT video useful - 'Preparing and sharpening a woodworking chisel' by Paul Sellers