Oval punches

[GregS]

Hi guys.  Really new to leather craft.

One of my near future projects is going to be a belt.  I've watched many YouTube videos.  It looks like the way to go is oval punches.  I have round hole punches and not really sure that I'll make use of oval punches in the near future.  I know that part of the fun of a new hobby is getting all the tools.  But being new, I'd rather not spend the money on tools that I may not use any time soon.

Instead of an oval punch, how much of an overlap can I have for round punches in place of an oval?  The various pics sort of look like it is a tear drop shape.

[bikermutt07]

Welcome aboard.

I'm not sure what you mean by overlap?

I have only made one leather belt for work. I used round punches. It works fine. I would invest in ovals if I were going to sell them. 

And, there are tear drop shaped punches out there.

[fredk]

11 hours ago, GregS said:

Instead of an oval punch, how much of an overlap can I have for round punches in place of an oval?  The various pics sort of look like it is a tear drop shape.

About 25% to 50% should do as overlap - just depends on how long you want your oval. Use a smaller size hole punch [individual bar type] as a bar to burnish and smooth the hole sides. Even with a single oval hole punch you should do this.

Oval hole punches are not very expensive. Heres a link to one of 6 x 4mm. just about right for belt holes; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-Leather-Craft-Oval-Rectangle-Punch-Hole-Hollow-Tools-Strap-Belt-Square-Hole/253632650535?hash=item3b0daf1d27:m:mOKIZkFkSuQ00-e1dRVDpxA:rk:4:pf:0&var=552864877734

[NVLeatherWorx]

16 hours ago, GregS said:

Hi guys.  Really new to leather craft.

One of my near future projects is going to be a belt.  I've watched many YouTube videos.  It looks like the way to go is oval punches.  I have round hole punches and not really sure that I'll make use of oval punches in the near future.  I know that part of the fun of a new hobby is getting all the tools.  But being new, I'd rather not spend the money on tools that I may not use any time soon.

Instead of an oval punch, how much of an overlap can I have for round punches in place of an oval?  The various pics sort of look like it is a tear drop shape.

Reality is that the round hole punches are just fine, the oval thing is just a visual thing and does not lend itself to any better performance over the life of the belt.  Besides, who really looks at the hole style on a belt?  The flash of a belt is in the overall style and design.

[bikermutt07]

Oh, now I know what you mean about over lap.

[fredk]

24 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

Reality is that the round hole punches are just fine, the oval thing is just a visual thing and does not lend itself to any better performance over the life of the belt.  

I'm contrary. I did new bonnet and boot belts for my vintage cars. On the old belts the round holes had ripped the leather into an oval hole and distressed the strap. On the new ones I punched oval holes and after many, many months of use the holes are/were the same shape with no distress to the leather belt strap

Edited February 2, 2019 by fredk

[GregS]

I like that with the oval holes, the belt doesn't seem to get pulled out of shape like the round holes do.  Of course the only belt I had with oval holes was a higher end belt than I usually buy.

Bikermutt, love your signature block.  Isn't that the way most hobbies start?  And a belt is obviously on my list of things to make.

 

[Transporter]

Definitely a new contrib me, answer to NV leather specifically to the question of just who looks at the oval holes in a belt answer: leather crafters, the trained eye.

 

[OLESKIVER]

you might try going to osbornleathertools.com they can send you a catalog. they offer all the different punches and more for leather working. am fixing to buy some of their oval punches but personally can't see going over a size 10 ( they go to size 16 ) as they say " the right tool for the right job" but it does speed up your work. hope this helps.

[mike02130]

Oval is the way to go.  Good luck overlapping.  On the second punch (the overlap) the punch is going to want to slide towards the previous hole.  Weaver leather craft sells excellent ovals. Not cheap: around 40 bucks.  I use a 1/4"

[Spyros]

Having the oval punch is one thing.  Keeping the oval holes in a straight line, evenly spaced and all pointed in the same direction is a whole other kettle of fish LOL

 

[jcuk]

16 hours ago, Spyros said:

Having the oval punch is one thing.  Keeping the oval holes in a straight line, evenly spaced and all pointed in the same direction is a whole other kettle of fish LOL

 

Ι will kinda go against the flow here, and I know many people won't agree with me, but don't buy more tools.  Trust your hand and your eye, and if you don't, keep practicing until you do.   It will give you confidence to do many things throughout this (and any) craft and it will often get you out of tight spots.  I firmly believe our hand-eye coordination is the most important tool and just like any other tool it also needs honing from time to time.

By all means try different things if it's easy and practical to do so but keep in mind that the perfect cutter might actually not exist

 

Thats the rule with most leather working hand tools, try not to over think things, being a southpaw i have a lot of tools that are right handed so took a lot of practice and wasted a lot of leather along the way but sometimes that the nature of the beast. 

Hope this helps

JCUK

 

[Danne]

19 hours ago, Spyros said:

Having the oval punch is one thing.  Keeping the oval holes in a straight line, evenly spaced and all pointed in the same direction is a whole other kettle of fish LOL

 

It's a simple solution for that. Print a template (Or draw a template on paper) punch the holes in the paper template. Then you can align it to your belt. push down your hole punch by hand to make an impression, remove template and punch holes. 

Just a quick drawing (not to scale) just to show how I mean.

I don't make belts, but watch straps. And when I see those multi hole punches from Ksblade and such, if I made a lot of straps it would be nice to have some of them. But I think it's also important to be able to do the same things without special tools, because what to do you when you get that order with a hole size or distance between holes that doesn't match up with your "multi punch" ? The same with strap points. Yes it can be quick and nice to have a strap end punch, but I also think it's important to learn how to cut that point by hand.

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Danne

[Trox]

On 2/2/2019 at 2:54 AM, GregS said:

Hi guys.  Really new to leather craft.

One of my near future projects is going to be a belt.  I've watched many YouTube videos.  It looks like the way to go is oval punches.  I have round hole punches and not really sure that I'll make use of oval punches in the near future.  I know that part of the fun of a new hobby is getting all the tools.  But being new, I'd rather not spend the money on tools that I may not use any time soon.

Instead of an oval punch, how much of an overlap can I have for round punches in place of an oval?  The various pics sort of look like it is a tear drop shape.

Some buckles will need oval holes, it will look better and keep the holes smaller. You would need a much larger round hole for the same job. That might make a strap weaker and look ugly. However, in most cases you will get away with a round hole. There are cheap roller punch pliers with oval punches available. You can also buy cheap oval punches, but they will not last very long and some of them makes ugly holes too. I've tried a few  types of today's oval punches.  You can be lucky to find some old ones in good condition otherwise there are very few new good ones. The new Blanchard's aren't good, small sizes are to soft steel. There are inexpensive Dixon copies, they look like they have just pressed a round punch to a oval shape...bad outcome. I've settled with the Weaver ones. They are a little on the fat side and the flat indicators on the handle isn't oriented correct to ovals long side. I expect that is a mistake to one or two of mine because the rest of the set are correct. Anyway, good punches are a expensive investment. You can use something cheap while you collect the good one over time.

Tor

[Spyros]

4 hours ago, jcuk said:

Ι will kinda go against the flow here, and I know many people won't agree with me, but don't buy more tools.  Trust your hand and your eye, and if you don't, keep practicing until you do.   It will give you confidence to do many things throughout this (and any) craft and it will often get you out of tight spots.  I firmly believe our hand-eye coordination is the most important tool and just like any other tool it also needs honing from time to time.

By all means try different things if it's easy and practical to do so but keep in mind that the perfect cutter might actually not exist

 

Thats the rule with most leather working hand tools, try not to over think things, being a southpaw i have a lot of tools that are right handed so took a lot of practice and wasted a lot of leather along the way but sometimes that the nature of the beast. 

Hope this helps

JCUK

 

I did say it didn't I 

I don't know what it is about holes but I really suck at making them, whether it's leather, wood, metal, whatever.   Worse thing about it is they usually come at the end of the project... here'a a nice brass hammer I made recently LOL

 

[Trox]

22 hours ago, Spyros said:

I did say it didn't I 

I don't know what it is about holes but I really suck at making them, whether it's leather, wood, metal, whatever.   Worse thing about it is they usually come at the end of the project... here'a a nice brass hammer I made recently LOL

 

Nice hammer, what are those rivet's for? Is there a tang inside going all the way to the back of the handle?

On 2/2/2019 at 2:54 AM, GregS said:

Hi guys.  Really new to leather craft.

One of my near future projects is going to be a belt.  I've watched many YouTube videos.  It looks like the way to go is oval punches.  I have round hole punches and not really sure that I'll make use of oval punches in the near future.  I know that part of the fun of a new hobby is getting all the tools.  But being new, I'd rather not spend the money on tools that I may not use any time soon.

Instead of an oval punch, how much of an overlap can I have for round punches in place of an oval?  The various pics sort of look like it is a tear drop shape.

Some buckles will need oval holes, it will look better and keep the holes smaller. You would need a much larger round hole for the same job. That might make a strap weaker and look ugly. However, in most cases you will get away with a round hole. There are cheap roller punch pliers with oval punches available. You can also buy cheap oval punches, but they will not last very long and some of them makes ugly holes too. I've tried a few  types of today's oval punches.  You can be lucky to find some old ones in good condition otherwise there are very few new good ones. The new Blanchard's aren't good, small sizes are to soft steel. There are inexpensive Dixon copies, they look like they have just pressed a round punch to a oval shape...bad outcome. I've settled with the Weaver ones. They are a little on the fat side and the flat indicators on the handle isn't oriented correct to ovals long side. I expect that is a mistake to one or two of mine because the rest of the set are correct. Anyway, good punches are a expensive investment. You can use something cheap while you collect the good one over time.

Tor

[Hardrada]

23 hours ago, Trox said:

Some buckles will need oval holes, it will look better and keep the holes smaller.

The converse is also true. I once had a client who commissioned a belt for a buckle he had had made years ago:

He wanted Chicago screws as fasteners for the buckle/loop and OVAL holes. The prong on the buckle, however, was totally cylindrical and it was way loose with oval holes. So, I ended up punching round holes in the end and they were a snug fit.

[Hardrada]

On 8/10/2020 at 2:20 PM, Danne said:

It's a simple solution for that. Print a template (Or draw a template on paper) punch the holes in the paper template. Then you can align it to your belt. push down your hole punch by hand to make an impression, remove template and punch holes. 

Just a quick drawing (not to scale) just to show how I mean.

I don't make belts, but watch straps. And when I see those multi hole punches from Ksblade and such, if I made a lot of straps it would be nice to have some of them. But I think it's also important to be able to do the same things without special tools, because what to do you when you get that order with a hole size or distance between holes that doesn't match up with your "multi punch" ? The same with strap points. Yes it can be quick and nice to have a strap end punch, but I also think it's important to learn how to cut that point by hand.

 

Totally agree.

I failed miserably with that approach, though. I made a template from 3 oz English bridle and still got the holes crooked. These punches have no indexes, and at such diameters are very difficult to align properly. Suggetions are appreciated.

[Frodo]

I have started using 1/4'' grommets .{depending on the type buckle] 

This is my Dogs collar, .  And YES, the hole is off,  Biscuit told me she does not want to be seen in public with  her collar messed up 

I think its a dog thing 

 

[Danne]

1 hour ago, Hardrada said:

Totally agree.

I failed miserably with that approach, though. I made a template from 3 oz English bridle and still got the holes crooked. These punches have no indexes, and at such diameters are very difficult to align properly. Suggetions are appreciated.

I would say it's better to do the template with paper. I usually use laser photo paper (A little more durable and thicker) And when you have made the holes in the template, align it carefully, and just push down your hole punch with your hands to leave an impression in the leather, and when you remove your template it's easy to align. 

If you make a line in the middle you can use a let's say 20mm for all templates and align it to the middle of the belt with a ruler/caliper/wingdiver and on a belt you can put some weights on the template when you mark through your template. I show you an example on a test piece. This is relatively thin leather so no room for large weights so used a small hammer, but no problem just holding it down. 

Those holes are perfectly centered. Holes aren't that nice though, night here in Europe so didn't want to wake up neighbours so pushed the punch through.

I don't have any oval punches, but it will work fine with oval punches too, because when you make the impression you feel when your punch is in the correct place and you punch your hole.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Danne

[fredk]

55 minutes ago, Hardrada said:

I failed miserably with that approach, though. I made a template from 3 oz English bridle and still got the holes crooked. These punches have no indexes, and at such diameters are very difficult to align properly. Suggetions are appreciated.

A thought. Punch one oval hole in thick leather. Glue two narrow strips onto that piece, one either side of that one hole and carefully aligned with it and the width apart of the belt strap. Place this 'template' over the belt strap and punch through the hole in it, move it along for each hole, or just press the punch into the belt strap to mark it, and then punch all the holes after the template is removed

[Frodo]

Because of  the offset holes you see in the image above

I am making a Plexiglass  template that has center marks,  and  you punch through the template holes

[mike02130]

I put three creases in my belts.  One a 1/4 - 3/8" on either side and one down the middle the length of the belt.  I line up the sides of the punch with the crease and use a little hand pressure to make a mark.  I then adjust as necessary.  It's not perfect but I get good results.  The creased lines look nice all connecting at the end of the English point.

[Spyros]

I think Ι'll pop out in the shed this weekend and make one of those quickly

.....but then the problem is, on that metal piece in the middle, how do I drill those holes straight 

It's the age old catch 22 of toolmaking:  

"to make the tool that you want, you need the tool that you're making"

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Spyros

[billybopp]

11 minutes ago, Spyros said:

I think Ι'll pop out in the shed this weekend and make one of those quickly

.....but then the problem is, on that metal piece in the middle, how do I drill those holes straight 

It's the age old catch 22 of toolmaking:  

"to make the tool that you want, you need the tool that you're making"

 

The difference is that if you make a tool like that, or a jig - you only have to take the time to get it just right once.  If it's something that you do often the time and money spent will pay you back in time and money!   I need to make something similar to that for my hole punching - I already made one to help me align letter stamps on straps out of thick plastic (I just don't have the tools to do metal).

- Bill