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With Veg Tan leather belts for normal trouser/ Jeans wear and maybe be dyed or plain, do you really need a acrylic sealer or is a leather balm or Dubbin better as Acrylic leaves a stiffer leather but more waterproof and a Balm leaves a more flexible leather and limited waterproofing whilst Dubbin seems in the middle

Just wondered what you think when not expecting a lot of wet outdoor activities

Edited by chrisash

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Hi Chris

it does depend on the 'veg tan' you're using.

If I make a belt from a bridle, or dyed butt or similar, I will often finish with a balm or carnuba was, as dubbin can, if not left to soak in and dry, cause staining on jeans and slacks.

If I know its for a real outdoorsy person, I offer to dubbin, but explain the need to re dubbin.

If its tooling leather. I feel it needs a sheen or Matt seal of some kind, and often more than one coat..

I don't carve or tool that much so others will 'correct me'.

Best

Harry

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I prefer a few coats of thinned resolene to seal the dye into the leather, then a coating of beeswax/nfo mix. Without the resolene to seal it I find the dye can rub off onto clothes

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Yes I understand that but dislike the resolene and other acrylic as they do seal ok but make it firmer, and wondering really if balm or dubbin well dried and polished would be more than adequate, looking really at tooling leather, effax seems to be quite a loose balm and appears to be able to soak well into the leather presumably sealing it whilst sedgwick balm seems to be only on the surface and presumably does not go very deep, I have only tried these two  so others may be better

Totally agree someone working out in all weathers then acrylic is the best solution, but assume in them there olden days they did not have acrylics and balms and wax were the only protection and not fashion conscious of a bit on there clothes 

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Why not use just plain pure ( strictly speaking "bees wax" isn't pure, lot of trace things in there, but "paraffin wax is ) wax ( like in "the old days" )..at least you know what is in it, whereas the term "balms" can cover a multiturde of sins..


typo left in deliberately

I never trust "stuff out of a tin", unless it was I who put the ingredients in the tin.."brand names"* are similar..it is what is actually in "it" that counts ( and in what proportions ) , not what they call it..

*resolene being a good instance of a "brand name", that exists instead of them just saying what is in it, and in what proportions..But of course that would allow people to realise how much they are paying for some very basic chemical ingredients..SDS / MSDS sheets shed some light on what is actually ( usually at very high "mark ups" in "brand" name formulations..

Edited by mikesc

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Not all things placed in a tin are of questionable quality or ingredients.  I make my own leather balm and put it in a tin myself for resale to my clients.  It is made from a blend of nothing more than Pure NFO, triple filtered Beeswax (gets those pesky extra bits out) and Cocoa Butter with nothing else added.  It serves the purpose of not only keeping the leather quite soft and conditioned but also gives the leather (stamped/tooled veg-tan) a moisture barrier that keeps it from acting like a sponge.

And I have never had the use of Resolene stiffen the leather over the course of the years that I have used it and I have been using for many, many years.  

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10 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

And I have never had the use of Resolene stiffen the leather over the course of the years that I have used it and I have been using for many, many years.  

:16:

Was wondering what @chrisash was using or how much to cause the leather to stiffen?  My largest concern would be dye rub off.  All the wax finishes, dubbins, etc. tend to allow rub off still.  Clear Lac and acrylic finishers tend to seal it in.  Even satin sheen allows rub off.  Tan kote may be an option.

YinTx

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Not all things placed in a tin are of questionable quality or ingredients. I make my own leather balm and put it in a tin myself for resale to my clients. It is made from a blend of nothing more than Pure NFO, triple filtered Beeswax (gets those pesky extra bits out) and Cocoa Butter with nothing else added.






I'm guessing though that you tell your clients what is in the tin..
Most..do not..
Example ..Resolene..presumably contains "reso" and "lene" ;)..or..they could say..contains clear acrylic resin..= "plastic" ( one of a "gazillion different sorts of plastic ) "in solution".."the other part(s) of the "solution" being" ....

Edited by mikesc

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a; yes, I find resolene will stiffen leather - a very wee bit in my experience but the coating of beeswax/nfo I then work into the leather returns the suppleness

b. I don't trust commercial 'leather foods' either*. I used to make leather food and furniture polish using my own bees' wax and other ingredients for sale to the public. These were, complying with packaging laws here, labeled with exactly what they contained.

* my no.1 son uses a commercial 'leather food/cleaner' in his BMW cars he sells. The food/cleaner has an ingredient which gives off a scent which replicates the smell of leather, so even on PVC/leather cloth seats in his cars they can smell like leather. What it is that makes the smell is not listed on the tin, thus if there is that ingredient I don't trust it.

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The best things I've learned here, relative to dye sealing/rub-off, was to first switch to the Fiebings PRO dye instead of the water based dye I was using.
Second, was to brush the dyed area vigorously once it is completely dry, to remove any pigment that did not penetrate the leather. This is what mostly "rubs off", and trying to seal it in does not work over the long term. Brush it off, THEN seal it.

Once this is done, the choice of sealant is much less critical. I've used waxes and acrylics, both with good results, after following the advice that I learned here.

Dye is not paint. Paint has it's pigment in a substrate that's meant to stick to something and cover it. Dye has the pigment in a carrier that allows it to penetrate the material. Any that does not penetrate, must be removed prior to sealing. Understanding that tip has saved me countless headaches.

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Jazzbass, I figured that out recently, (yesterday) when I tried Fiebings edge paint applicator. It was a paint, not a dye, and when it foamed during application, it flowed over some contrasting stitching. Well, that became a black belt with black stitching, that started out as a black belt with light tan stitching, when I had to make another one for the client. Hey, now I have a black/black stitched belt I didn't know I needed. 

Jeff

Edited by alpha2

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On 3/23/2019 at 7:24 AM, mikesc said:

 

 


I'm guessing though that you tell your clients what is in the tin..
Most..do not..
Example ..Resolene..presumably contains "reso" and "lene" ;)..or..they could say..contains clear acrylic resin..= "plastic" ( one of a "gazillion different sorts of plastic ) "in solution".."the other part(s) of the "solution" being" ....

 

 

I do indeed tell them exactly what is in the tin; I even include it on the "how to use" card that I provide with each tin.  And, when I am out in the public at a show or fair, I show them how to apply it and then put some water on it and let it sit so they can see how well it resists the moisture.  There is no true fully waterproofing agent out there but I have left the water on the leather for over 5 hours before wiping it off and it hadn't even thought about trying to dampen the leather.  Best selling demonstration to date for this stuff.

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On 3/23/2019 at 5:44 PM, alpha2 said:

Jazzbass, I figured that out recently, (yesterday) when I tried Fiebings edge paint applicator. It was a paint, not a dye, and when it foamed during application, it flowed over some contrasting stitching. Well, that became a black belt with black stitching, that started out as a black belt with light tan stitching, when I had to make another one for the client. Hey, now I have a black/black stitched belt I didn't know I needed. 

Jeff

I know the feeling, I have had that happen to me ( but mine rolls over the back side that I wasn't going to dye ) I don't dye my backs due to the worry of rub off. I too have several black belts that I didn't know I needed. ( like a life time supply ) lol

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