Pfaff 335 clone sold as a genuine Pfaff

[blue62]

6 minutes ago, mikesc said:

If some one could get away with disguising a Pinto to look like Cadillac and selling it to you..it would still get you from A to B , which is what a car does..
But you'd be pissed if you'd paid Caddy prices for a disguised Pinto, and the seller would have committed fraud..and probably some other things under US law.

Your right, but it would still beat walking,

I do have to applaud French law enforcement for having time to deal with something like this, over here you'd be told something to the effect of you will have to work it out with the merchant, have a nice day, or buyer beware.

Takes some big dollars in fraud to get law enforcement to investigate anything.

 

[Matt S]

2 minutes ago, mikesc said:

The best quick example to point you to..is that when you phone the ICO they specifically say they are not recording you, if they were, they have to tell you, and you have the right to refuse that anyone does.. Recording someone in their place of business or home ( for whatever reason , requires their permission ) ..it is not because one can do something , or buy something, that it is legal to do so or to use it..For the details as to what one can and cannot do, legally , in the UK as in the EU in general ( for the next 90 days the UK is still governed by EU laws ( which I'm not going to go finding to link to ) ..ask a lawyer ( "rights to privacy law" in the UK is a speciality ) ..it can indeed be criminal, in some circumstances ,to record, take stills or video of someone, in a private place, a place of business, or even in public ( think "taking photos of other peoples kids on the beach", or recording them, audio or video , or anyone )..which will get you a visit from "the Bill" etc in short order, and possibly a court appearance, with maybe a sentence ) ..without their permission, given in advance*..

Making it obvious that a person's conduct is being recorded (or implying that it is, even when not) is often believed to improve their conduct. Further, as I said previously, use of a recording for commercial purposes is a different kettle of fish.

Filming someone's kids without an obvious reason why will cause police intervention/investigation because there is a prima face case of filming with criminal intent. Under UK law there is no and never has been any presumption of privacy in a public place (which can and does include business premises and other private property). This is very well established. Similarly, covert/concealed (as opposed to overt) CCTV cameras, private or public, are perfectly legal to operate anywhere, except where privacy is reasonably expected, such as a changing room or toilet.
 

Quote

*One of the things that TM did not like about the EU was it's laws ( which over ride any pre-existing UK laws ) governing privacy and who could record whom and why and in what circumstances..laws which apply not just to governments, civil servants, police, businesses, but also to private individuals..

Being recorded by the hundreds of thousands of CCT cameras in the UK doesn't count..they thought of that when drafting the laws..although TM would have liked to be able to take them far further than the EU allowed her to.

I don't agree with your interpretation of the law at all, especially the automatic supremacy of EU law over Westminster statute, but you are free to do so and I think that we are drifting rather far from the topic of this thread. I live and work under the interpretation of the law that the Metropolitan Police and Crown Prosecution Service use -- as do the many people I know who operate recording devices within the UK for hobby and business purposes.

[blue62]

13 minutes ago, mikesc said:

If some one could get away with disguising a Pinto to look like Cadillac and selling it to you..it would still get you from A to B , which is what a car does..
But you'd be pissed if you'd paid Caddy prices for a disguised Pinto, and the seller would have committed fraud..and probably some other things under US law.

And by the way, the pinto pretending to be a caddy thing, I see that all the time, auto repair is my mainline occupation, we always recommend a prepurchase inspection or just a test drive by someone knowledgeable .

[mikesc]

Ah "The Met " and the CPS..bless 'em..the same ones that tried to do photographers for being "too tall"..their chosen interpretations of the law vary more than the wind and tides do..But , yes..we are forgetting the sewing machine in question, Vanessa asked me around midday( my time ) via Pm it we could talk on the phone, I replied within 15 minutes, soon as I noticed the Pm, said "yes, but I'd be busy until 14.30 to 15.00 my time", I asked for her number so as to ring her when I was free.

Haven't heard a word back from her since..and now, after killing time, for an an hour and a half since 15.00, ( 16.40 here now ) tinkering around with a computer or two. and posting a bit in between, while waiting for her to get back to me ..I've now got to do other stuff again ( including going out ) calls to make and to take, work to do, so won't be available to phone maybe until tomorrow, if then.

She'll have to see how it goes with her dealer given what I've posted..and what she was told on the French forum( http://cuir-creation.forum-box.com/index.php) ..a place that I can recommend if one speaks /reads / writes French ( which was more or less what I told her here, minus the parts about the "fisc" and the URSSAF )..as long as she doesn't try going in with a "secret squirrel pen" in France..she should be OK ;)

Edited August 1, 2019 by mikesc

[Matt S]

36 minutes ago, mikesc said:

Ah "The Met " and the CPS..bless 'em..the same ones that tried to do photographers for being "too tall"..their chosen interpretations of the law vary more than the wind and tides do.

If you're referring to the incident a decade ago when an individual officer from Kent Constab made a foolish arrest under stress, which was reversed before the photographer was taken to a police station, I think you're either tilting at windmills or should stop believing the headlines. Interpretation of the law in England ultimately sits with the courts, and for practical purposes with the local plod and CPS. Not by two barrack-room lawyers on an internet forum ;-)

[chrisash]

Mike the law in the UK at least is different hence the number of video recorders constantly recording all activity from the house to the road outside or the use of video's in car for recording accidents and any thing the camera is pointing to, the shops watching you with no notice telling you and so on

I assume most cars from the UK visiting France also have car cameras operating all the time

[Wizcrafts]

Be careful when offering (pseudo) legal advice if you are not a certified commercial lawyer. Even if one is a credentialed lawyer, the laws would be different in France than elsewhere. Bad legal advice can be counterproductive.

[kgg]

25 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

Be careful when offering (pseudo) legal advice if you are not a certified commercial lawyer. Even if one is a credentialed lawyer, the laws would be different in France than elsewhere. Bad legal advice can be counterproductive.

I agree. Laws are different and can be applied differently from one country to another. Like in Canada you can record your own conversations with others without them knowing as long as you give yourself consent to recording it but it is illegal to record conversations between other people where you are not part of the conversation. Fine lines and how a court would apply could be quite different.

Hope this gets resolved fairly and quickly.

kgg

 

 

[vanessaFrance]

9 hours ago, chrisash said:

I brought on EBay a pen that has a video recorder built into it and is not at all obvious, it cost about £20, it might be worth finding something similar to have on you when you visit and get a record of all that was discussed in case you get no satisfaction and need to go further to court

Clipped onto your handbag or boy friends top pocket you can have clear pictures and sound

ps did you pay be credit card in which case you could do a chargeback under not as described

That would have been a great idea, time-permitting... Unfortunately we won't have time to buy one.

[vanessaFrance]

19 hours ago, mikesc said:

Ah "The Met " and the CPS..bless 'em..the same ones that tried to do photographers for being "too tall"..their chosen interpretations of the law vary more than the wind and tides do..But , yes..we are forgetting the sewing machine in question, Vanessa asked me around midday( my time ) via Pm it we could talk on the phone, I replied within 15 minutes, soon as I noticed the Pm, said "yes, but I'd be busy until 14.30 to 15.00 my time", I asked for her number so as to ring her when I was free.

Haven't heard a word back from her since..and now, after killing time, for an an hour and a half since 15.00, ( 16.40 here now ) tinkering around with a computer or two. and posting a bit in between, while waiting for her to get back to me ..I've now got to do other stuff again ( including going out ) calls to make and to take, work to do, so won't be available to phone maybe until tomorrow, if then.

She'll have to see how it goes with her dealer given what I've posted..and what she was told on the French forum( http://cuir-creation.forum-box.com/index.php) ..a place that I can recommend if one speaks /reads / writes French ( which was more or less what I told her here, minus the parts about the "fisc" and the URSSAF )..as long as she doesn't try going in with a "secret squirrel pen" in France..she should be OK

My apologies, Mike, but I have been busy like crazy preparing the meeting and gathering all the evidence I could find... We are off to Marseille. Fingers crossed