FIRST SHOES FOR FERG

[Ferg]

I said some time back I wasn't in the mood to make shoes. Decided a few weeks ago to see what I could do with it.

Bought two or three books which provided much info that I reference every day I am working on the shoes.

My wife has rather severe arthritis in her feet and ankles. We have bought enough shoes to fill a store, that do not exactly fit.

Had inserts designed by a foot specialist that helped some for several months. Thousands of dollars for orthotics.

I told her I could certainly try to make her a pair that she could be somewhat comfortable with.

Bought a Shoe Last as close to her foot size as I could find and modified them with dozens of measurements I took of her feet.

The photo is of the two Lasts after modification with layers of leather shaped and formed plus the drawing of the shoe I am building.

The lasts have been sprayed with several coats of clear acrylic. My manner of making the shoes is referred to as the Geometric of which French, Italian, Bavarian, English and others

use to make "Bespoke" shoes. Complicated is not really descriptive of what goes into this. I never give up on any endeavor I decide to pursue. This one pushes those feelings.

Note: The wide offset in the shoes to the out side. That is to allow for arthritic swelling in her bones at the side of her feet. Two toes on each foot are affected also plus her instep and arch.

Thought some of you may be interested to see this. I know there are several on the forum who have worked in the field. I am interested in their comments as well as anyone else.

I am in the process of making a "Throw Away Shoe" to test the fit and comfort. Hoping my measurements aren't too far off. 

BTW: I found that Metric Measurement is a lot easier to use on shoes than Inches.

Ferg

 

[mikesc]

Definitely interested..Just the one question ..Why have you decided to use a slightly pointed shape ( one in which the longest part is close to the centre line ) rather than one in which the longest part is closer to the inside edge ? Feet are longer at the big toe, rather than at the second or third toe.I'm thinking like a sandal sole shape , which allows the toes to spread naturally, as opposed to a western boot sole shape, which squishes them to a point in line with the centre line of the foot..Thinking about a recent thread here from someone who is making boots that fit their feet as opposed to making boots that their feet must fit into.I mention this as if you are working from "scratch" and your wife already has bone and articulation problems in her feet, I'm surprised to see that you made allowances ( adjusted the lasts ) at the sides, but kept the artificial ( compared with the shape of human feet ) "longest point is on a centre line of the foot " aspect of the shape of the lasts ?

As I understand it, shoes are made "pointed along a centre line" and narrower at the front ( despite the fact that feet are not that shape ) so as to make the shoe easier to remove from the last..Not to be comfortable on the feet. Or..did your wife say ( as mine would if I said I was going to make her some "foot shaped shoes" ) "I'm not wearing shoes that make it look like I have ducks feet when they are on"..In which case I can sympathise, I'd opt for the quiet life too I may well make myself a pair of "feet shaped shoes" one day, but I know that my wife would never wear any if I made them for her, unless inside the house only.

ps..did you think of casting her feet in plaster*( two or three part molds per each foot ) and then making a "positive cast" of her foot , which you could then carve lasts from blocks to get her precise foot shape for each foot.You can use cold silicone or alginate casting which would be flexible enough to peel off her feet when set, alginates set up very fast, used for molding faces , limbs etc , and for what I think are called " baby bump" castings. Casting is very easy, especially if you do not have to allow for leaving the spaces between the toes.

 

edit..I found the thread I was thinking of..Original poster was tozafoot

Very interesting thread..well worth looking at his site too, very interesting reading in there.Especially about "give toes room" and trying to make shoes as close to "barefoot" as possible to avoid foot problems, or lessen pain from existing conditions due to "fashionable" shaped footwear, constraining and distorting feet over time.

https://tozafoot.com/2019/07/02/experimenting-with-design-and-method-side-fastening-shoes/

Edited August 20, 2019 by mikesc

[Ferg]

mikesc

I took careful measurements of her feet as well as the shape of her foot. The LAST I chose is a "Munson". Normally used for military shoes since WW I.

The toe space has vertical space more than normal also. Attempted to shape the LAST so she could get her painful feet into the shoe easily as well as help to control movement in her abnormal bones of the toes. 

Obviously the LAST design wasn't necessarily intended for women's wear but has been modified many times over the years. Since she has had a number of years to endure the pain, she doesn't really care if the shoes appear more like a man's shoe than women.

This shoe will have a 223mm/3/4" heel.

Thanks so much for your insight and thoughts.

Also: I did consider the casting and with the materials you listed. Decided I would go this way. I believe my photo, taken at the angle  In the photo, makes the toe area appear more pointed than it actually is.

Ferg

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ferg

[mikesc]

Ah..Thanks for that Ferg :)

 Yes they did look "somewhat pointy" in that photo, had me worried for a while there :)

I have learned not to even so much as hint at a comment concerning the number of pairs of shoes my wife has, in return she doesn't comment on my tool purchases, and only rarely comments on the number of sewing machines and computers I have.

 I'll be following with interest, I can only stand wearing shoes for a few hours a day due to various damage to my feet over the years, typing this in bare feet now.

[Aven]

Ferg, that is a great start.  I'm looking forward to watching your progress.

 

Mikesc you asked " .... Why have you decided to use a slightly pointed shape ( one in which the longest part is close to the centre line ) rather than one in which the longest part is closer to the inside edge ? Feet are longer at the big toe, rather than at the second or third toe." 

Having a second toe longer than the big toe or a short big toe is called Morton's Toe.  It's not that uncommon.

[mikesc]

My toes are all long, but the big one is longer than the second one..But..as the second fingers on my hands are longer than the first fingers,( they are all long ) You'd expect feet to match..Mine don't..But given the shape of shoes and lasts , maybe Morton's toes are / were  predominant.

Ferg..are you going to do any decoration? If you have thought that far ahead .?  Some Brogue patterns could be used to add a feminine touch.

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, Ferg said:

Complicated is not really descriptive of what goes into this

Soooo true. Ferg I have a bit of experience with this but not ever without seeing and feeling the feet of the wearer. This probably wont be liked by her but if you could post a picture of her feet standing flat on the floor a couple of inches apart from the knees down would help. Also any orthotics  that have been done recently. I understand if she would rather not.

[MikeRock]

Morton's toe.....  Now I know.  My second toes are 3/8" longer than the great toes on both feet.  It has caused me some grief with steel toed boots which I wear almost constantly.

Now I have more to read!!

God bless

[bikermutt07]

54 minutes ago, mikesc said:

My toes are all long, but the big one is longer than the second one..But..as the second fingers on my hands are longer than the first fingers,( they are all long ) You'd expect feet to match..Mine don't..But given the shape of shoes and lasts , maybe Morton's toes are / were  predominant.

Ferg..are you going to do any decoration? If you have thought that far ahead .?  Some Brogue patterns could be used to add a feminine touch.

In my family, involving my first wife and my current wife, our children all seemed to get mom's feet and dad's crooked fingers.

Ferg, I hope you succeed in your challenge. I gave up awhile back on the shoes, but I may be inspired once again to try. It just got so confusing for me as a hobby project.

[RockyAussie]

35 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

Soooo true. Ferg I have a bit of experience with this but not ever without seeing and feeling the feet of the wearer. This probably wont be liked by her but if you could post a picture of her feet standing flat on the floor a couple of inches apart from the knees down would help. Also any orthotics  that have been done recently. I understand if she would rather not.

Also I should have added a picture of the soles of her feet. I would be trying to see how much metatarsal drop compared to bunion swelling amongst other stuff. I am in the middle of a large run of belts so I will have to check back on and off today. If one knee goes inward more than the other are things to be noted as well.

[Ferg]

mikesc

Not going to add any decoration on this set. I am thinking I will make her a pair of sandals/loafers later. 

Our family business gears up in about two three weeks. The shoes will probably get "slowed" a bit.

Ferg

[Ferg]

RockyAussie

She gave me a hard time when I posted personal aspects of her feet to my brothers.

For the time being that won't happen.

Ferg

[Ferg]

12 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Also I should have added a picture of the soles of her feet. I would be trying to see how much metatarsal drop compared to bunion swelling amongst other stuff. I am in the middle of a large run of belts so I will have to check back on and off today. If one knee goes inward more than the other are things to be noted as well.

There doesn't seem to be much metatarsal drop yet. She says her doctor doesn't call her side bump a bunion so she doesn't want me to infer that. LOL He describes those as swelling bones so we will leave that at that.

Leg stability and knee placement aren't affected, now anyway. She has retarded movement in both big toes and is considering surgery, not me. Second toes are slightly longer than big. They are Hammer toes also so I raised that area of the shoe toe to help that condition. When I finished altering the LAST's, I was afraid I may have done too much. When we try the TW shoe I am sure those things will show their dirty little heads.

Feet are not flat. Arches seem to be normal for her age. She does have some pain in that area of course.

First responder mentioned, "Why didn't I use a LAST that was closer to her feet." Or why didn't I make a cast and do the LAST myself. I have been a woodworker all my life, I ain't going there.

Ferg

[Ferg]

For those of you who feel like trying the "shoe making thing". I have more than your average number of leather working tools, I still needed to buy a few more. 

Cordwainer Tools and Lisa Sorrell have tools as well as other necessities. Both are prompt and helpful.

Tim Skyrma, Marcell Mrsan, and Frank Jones of Noble Footwear have books. I bought the books directly from the authors.

My amateur advice is to buy the books and watch every video pertaining to same. Read the books cover to cover with no interruption before beginning this most challenging endeavor I have tried. I taught myself to program computers and CNC machines, making shoes correctly is more difficult.

Ferg

[mikesc]

"First responder's" real job is a designer , artist, sculptor..I went waaaaaay past "there" in wood and other materials many decades ago :)
When I get around to making my "foot shaped" shoes / boots, they'll have to have toe and sole protection, my "store bought" ones have that protection in steel, but my neighbour has the same protection ( very expensive engineers type boots ) in Kevlar, lighter on the feet, and Kevlar is easy to mold.
I buy some leather ( some exotics ) from a friend who is a shoe and bootmaker ( bespoke, very expensive, luxury footwear )..so I'll have some "guidance" and use of his tools and workshop..But there is more than one way to skin a .... so .like when Brian posts "how tos" I follow along with interest, the watching / hearing / reading the problem solving process of other people's minds, is often at least as interesting as the finished results..Be it woodworking, sculpture, painting, drawing, leatherwork, building, restoring, whatever. :)

I agree with what you have written to the left of your profile "interests" wholeheartedly Ferg :)

[RockyAussie]

On 8/21/2019 at 8:24 AM, Ferg said:

My wife has rather severe arthritis in her feet and ankles. We have bought enough shoes to fill a store, that do not exactly fit.

Had inserts designed by a foot specialist that helped some for several months. Thousands of dollars for orthotics.

I told her I could certainly try to make her a pair that she could be somewhat comfortable with.

She is not happy for a picture of even the orthotics? With arthritis and associated problems in the feet I would recomend trying to keep the shoes light and not overly structured. I have witnessed where some surgical shoe makers have made their traditional Herman Munster boots to see blisters and sores that are horrific. Being told that they have to wear them in is Bullshit.The age of the person and thinness of their skin must be considered highly. I will leave you with a recommendations to consider in your next pair. Do not make the heel counter come down as far as normal and do not make them overly strong and inflexible. Slipping at the heel is a common problem that gives blisters and many other resulting lack of support problems.At the top of the  heel counter between the lining and the heel counter put in a 1/8" or more thickness of some foam rubber. This would normally be about 3"+ straightish at the top line and about 1/2" deep at the very back coming around to nearly 1" deep where it cups around just above the calcaneus bone. Wrapping your hand around above the heel bone with your thumb and finger will give you some idea. The next is adding a 3 to 4mm piece of leather to the bottom of your last. This is to accommodate a preferably high memory foam insole/sock liner. If you allow room for a eva rubber style insole they can be sanded down here and there until the shoe feels perfect. I seem to recall that you have some sort of a vacuum setup and that may come in handy if you want to do a little trick that I used to do (other than make orthotics). If you can find out where to get some clear thermo mould-able plastic sheeting about .6mm thick you may be able to get it to mould to your last shape.  Sort of the TW shoe tester. This is normally sucked down onto the last with an insole leather attached to it beforehand. The top line is marked on your last then cut out and sliced down the centre line to about where your lacing would end on a derby style. You put this on the persons foot and if there is any tight areas (bone swellings )   it will be VERY obvious as the skin will be very white in comparison to the surrounding skin. Also any loose areas will be able to be seen and you can decide if they should be removed from the last or not. This plastic is somewhat stiff and not as forgiving as the leather version shoe and is a very good acid test of your last shape. Elastic type laces are sometimes good to use as well. I hope that it all goes well for you and her.

[Ferg]

I told her you would like to see photos of her feet. She said she didn't have any problem with it since it would be helping someone else.

Thanks a million for your "Notes". I will place a copy in the "Shoe" folder. lol

The only thing we have left from her foot doctor is the Insole he made for her a couple years ago.

I have the metal for making a jig to hold the last with uppers when I am ready to attach the outer sole. Also making a couple other tools.

Scrapped most of my design for the shoe earlier today. Just didn't look right. Been using some scrap leather I have had for some time in making this Throw Away.

Will send some photos as I get a little further along.

Ferg

[Aven]

Ferg, I don't know what you have as far as books go, but I was able to get a couple from Walrus Shoe Co.  Larry was most accommodating.

[Ferg]

BOOKS:

Pattern Cutting Step by Step, patterns for footwear by Frank Jones. He rewrote the book in 2008 to bring it up to date plus adding some additional info.

Definitely the best book for detail and exact drawings that I have. Obviously it is for making patterns for shoes.

BESPOKE SHOEMAKING: A comprehensive guide to handmade footwear by Tim Skyrme. Tim's book has a boat load of information. Illustrations leave something to be desired.

Marcell Mrsan: Brilliant shoemaker. He is Bavarian, at least semi-retired. Resides in Savannah, Georgia I presume. Hundreds of videos on the Net. Very articulate and definitely knows what he's talking about.

Marcell's Web-Site: www.cordwainertools.com. I have his STANDARD FOOTWARE PATTERN RULER. A video showing how to use the "Ruler" is on this site. https://vimeo.com/ondemand/shoemakingtutorials/332899515?autoplay=1 

I found the Ruler very complicated as are most things pertaining to true shoe making. After using it to make the drawings for wife's shoes I am flabbergasted at the knowledge it took to devise the multitude of things you can do with it. I

used it along with Pattern Cutting book.

Also have:  

This book is very interesting read. Doesn't go into detail as to making shoes.

BTW: Decided I didn't like the design of the uppers for wife's shoes. Changing a few things, not the main style though. Parts just didn't seem quite right.

Ferg

[Aven]

I have two books by George Koeff, Shoe & Boot Designing Manual  and Last Designing & Making Manual.   The last making manual has a DVD to go with the book.  The shoe & boot is similar to the Pattern Cutting Step by Step,  I think the Shoe & Boot Designing Manual is easier for me to follow.  I got both of the Koeff books from Walrus Shoes.

[Husky3]

OP, I hope you went to a surgically trained foot specialist.  I assume you are talking about a podiatrist.  I hope it was not a person who does minimal surgery or only forefoot surgery.  I am a podiatrist as my day job.  There are too many of us that would rather do custom orthotics (cash pay) than fix the problem.  By no means is surgery always the answer, but it often is with severe arthritis.  Anytime there is pain, instability or deformity an arthrodesis (fusion of the joints) can often fix the problem.  Certain joints, (1st MPJ, ankle) can be replaced, but as a general rule, fuse it.  No movement no pain.  Feel free to PM me with questions and if I know anyone in your location I can give you some suggestions.  Orthotics can only do so much, shoes can do only so much.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Husky3

[Ferg]

YES, both doctors she has gone to were Podiatrists. First one disappeared, he made/had made the insert. It definitely helped for awhile but like everything else they wear out.

Surgery is not out of the question. I realize orthotics are not always the answer. No harm in seeing what I can accomplish with building her a pair of shoes though, Right?

Thanks for your communication. Much appreciated.

Ferg

[gengado]

On 8/21/2019 at 12:24 AM, Ferg said:

I never give up on any endeavor I decide to pursue. This one pushes those feelings

i love that quote