Copying and copyright(ing) 'n' stuff

[fredk]

Well, I'll tell ya folks; for about 16 years almost** everything I made was a copy of someone else's design and / or work.

Thats cos nearly everything I was making was for history re-enactment type people so everything was copied from existing Ancient Hibernian/Saxon/Viking/Medieval items. For some History re-enactors, they wanted near-enuf exact copies, others were content with a variation on the real example. I doubt the original makers are going to chase me - well, not this side of the Styx anyways

** during that period only about 5% of my output was my original design/work

[chrisash]

The big question is how far does copyright or trademark stretch to

If I design a leather pouch just like any other pouch design to hang from a belt, and have a flag design on the flap

Does this mean nobody can do the same or can they use a different flag or maybe a image or  photo 747

That's the main problem in identifying what is copyrighted or trademarked and what is freedom of design, things can be different but look much the same, 

Unfortunately the big guys can afford the lawyers the small guy has in most cases just to accept life in unfair

[MikeRock]

. In the United States, the registrant of a trademark registered in the Patent Office may not recover profits or damages under the provisions of the Lanham (Trademark) Act unless the defendant had notice of the registration. The registrant may give this notice by displaying with the mark the words "Registered in U. S. Patent and Trademark Office" or "Reg. U.S. Pat. & Tm. Off." or the letter R enclosed within a circle.

[mikesc]

True Mike..Normally when you apply to register a trademark in the USA, you should read the docs and thus a registrant should know this ( a lot of people don't read them though )..and some very well known trademark holders ( looking at you Apple ) don't "indicate"..no letter R enclosed within a circle on the back of an iphone*, or a lot of Apple gear, just a part eaten silhouette apple. Here registration for France ( and extension to the EU ) costs less than €500.00, even less if you do it yourself "online". I can't remember the USA costs and the UK one ( been a while since I did my last ones in either of those places).Trademark legislation can be complex, and varies enormously from country to country. Copyright is more homogeneous. But still differs somewhat from place to place in the details.

 

*I don't own one, so maybe they put a microscopic one on that my aged eyes do not see..speaking of which, looking down at this keyboard..the "win key" ( which even linux keyboards have )..has the MS "windows" flowing window flag logo..but no trademark marker.

Edited August 31, 2019 by mikesc

[Hardrada]

7 hours ago, chrisash said:

The big question is how far does copyright or trademark stretch to

If I design a leather pouch just like any other pouch design to hang from a belt, and have a flag design on the flap

Does this mean nobody can do the same or can they use a different flag or maybe a image or  photo 747

That's the main problem in identifying what is copyrighted or trademarked and what is freedom of design, things can be different but look much the same, 

Unfortunately the big guys can afford the lawyers the small guy has in most cases just to accept life in unfair

That's basically what I meant when I said 'how many ways can you put pieces together to make a wallet?' AFAIK, as long as it's not a clone or knock-off it should be alright. A big problem is the Internet: it makes it very easy to imitate, and very easy to feel somebody who's never seen your products has imitated them. Frankly, I'm inclined to limit myself to local markets.

[JLSleather]

Got an email yesterday from a guy wanting a project with quite a bit of time involvement, but wanting to know how to "keep costs down".  Well, best way to have me charge you less is to ask me to do less (if I don't make something for you, its ABSOLUTELY FREE!)

But, I don't even make those these days, and apparently some didn't get the memo (it's in the blog).

So, what has that to do with "copying"?  In the blog, I put a link to a google search for that project, so since I wasn't making them, a guy could just click the link and it would show you a google search for others of a similar type (maybe).

Now, today I sent him that link.  And since it was right there and I was curious, I clicked it myself.  YIKES!  Folks are LINING UP over at custommade.com to snatch any idea I ever had  

Now, here's the blog post ... https://www.jlsleather.com/coast-guard-charge-books/

And here's the link taken from that blog post for simplicity.... "...you can find many just by Google-ing “leather coast guard charge book”. ...'

Click that and see about a JILLION people taking what I GUESS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE "copies" of what I did.  Now, all fairness, I'm certainly not screaming COPYRIGHT or INFRINGEMENT since I certainly didn't design that Coast Guard Emblem, OR the ratings, or the rank. Or brown leather, or zipper construction or binders in general.  

But REALLY... that layout with the insignia, backed by the Coast Guard rating badge, ribboned with a scroll stating name and rating, and bordered by a nautical rope knot..... that was me.  Now, ya maybe shouldn't have copied all that, even if I didn't register it (which wouldn't be enforceable anyway).  But REALLY REALLY.... if you "have to" copy the idea.. was it REALLY REALLY REALLY necessary to do it POORLY?@!  Some of this looks like it was done by a child ...

Good thing I have a sense of humor, eh?  By this afternoon, there will be 3 more people making exactly that (mostly badly), AND there will be 5 more signing up at custommade, where apparently you can sell things no matter how pathetic they are, AND there will be 7 copying the way I used that google search link in the blog post

 

[JLSleather]

All that said, my position on copying / appropriating others' content? 

IF you do something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.

Man, tha's good stuff.  I really should copyright that ...

By the way, same issue but different subject... in the last week or maybe 2, I saw TWO videos (well, parts of em... I couldnt' stomach the whole thing) by TWO DIFFERENT people, each telling me that you can determine where your stitch lines go for your holster pattern by wrapping a piece of leather around the gun.  Which is TRUE, you CAN.  BUT, Jim Simmons let us all in on that simple point YEARS AGO (in this thread, dated 2009), and I have no doubt that's exactly where these two MUNKYS got the idea.  Fair enough, it was clear Mr. Simmons INTENDED you to use that information he provided for free.  Woulda been nice, then, if these jackals would have said... "Jim showed me that"... but... nope.- not a word...

Incidentally, this is the same way I verify the correct size before I put HOURS in a custom belt for someone.  5.. 4.... 3... (tha's me, counting down to somebody copying that  ).

[chrisash]

Never heard of charge books this side of the pond, please can someone explain what they are used for

 

[PappyJoe]

Quote

Never heard of charge books this side of the pond, please can someone explain what they are used for

In the olden days of the U.S. Coast Guard and Navy - before political correctness took over - when an enlisted person was promoted to the rank of Chief Petty Officer (E-7 paygrade), they had the option to be initiated into the Chief Petty Officers association. Once they said, "I'm going to be initiated." they were issued a charge book - in my case it was a green record book - that I would have to take around and present to anyone who was a chief petty officer or above who would then fill the pages with any type of "well wishes" and insults they would like. During the initiation, the Judge would use the charge book as reason to punish the new chief by making him do silly stuff. It should be noted, other than getting you possibly drunk, they would not do anything to physically harm you.  In today's military, they give you a charge book, fill it was niceties and well wishes - and nothing not politically correct - and have a formal dining-in for new Chiefs. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by PappyJoe

[PappyJoe]

Quote

But REALLY... that layout with the insignia, backed by the Coast Guard rating badge, ribboned with a scroll stating name and rating, and bordered by a nautical rope knot..... that was me.  Now, ya maybe shouldn't have copied all that, even if I didn't register it (which wouldn't be enforceable anyway).  But REALLY REALLY.... if you "have to" copy the idea.. was it REALLY REALLY REALLY necessary to do it POORLY?@!  Some of this looks like it was done by a child ...

Don't know when you were in, but doing the rating badge behind the Chiefs insignia was being used as far back as 1972 when I was grease-behind-the ear young Fireman Apprentice on an icebreaker. What you described was also pretty standard for charge books -albeit not in leather - when I retired in 1993.