Threading a 4500?????

[dikman]

As I'm getting one I thought I'd do some homework before it arrives. I watched two videos on youtube about how to thread it - one from Hightex (Ryan) and one from Bob Kovar. Hightex do two full wraps, coming in via the wire guide above the lower tension assembly and then out via the same guide, Bob just does  1 1/2 turns.

Hightex has the bobbin thread coming off anticlockwise, Bob runs it clockwise.

They can't both be right?

Edited December 4, 2019 by dikman

[Constabulary]

I have no 4500 but the 45K / 45D have technically the same top tension assy - so I tried 1 1/2 and 1/2 wrap.

1/2 wrap means I just let the thread "touch" the bottom side of the tension wheel (small pulley) in the tension unit and 1 1/2 means I add a full wrap around the tension wheel.

When I do 1 1/2 wraps (Singer manuals calls this: "once completely around the tension wheel")  the needle is pulled to the left by the thread. I never tried 2 full wraps and I see no reason why I should do this.

However - it may depend on how much tension you put on the upper and lower tension unit (the one with the pulley). I usually have a very low tension on the lower unit the way that the tension wheel (pulley) still spins while feeding the thread. And I adust my top tension only in the upper tension unit whereas Singer manuals says adjust tension on the lower unit and when tread slips on the tension wheel add tension on the upper unit...

So - many ways lead to Rome - I figured the way I dot it works quite well for me.

 

EDIT:

out of curiosity I checked a 441 manual and it shows a 1 1/2 wrap. 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Constabulary

[Bert51]

I have an Adler 105 which appears to use the same as Constabulary posted.

When I got it, it was the only machine I had and I found the learning curve steep, as I used thread from 60M to 10M and needles from size 18 to 26, so I soon found it will do it, but you need to change your thread tension a bit.

With 60M thread I found if I left the top tension alone and ran the thread under the main tension pulley it will sew okay and 20M and below I wrapped it 1 1/2 times around the main tension pulley.

I learnt very early on that I practice with the scraps from the project to setup the machine each time. I think the more time you spend playing with what you wish to sew, the sooner you will learn how this machine will work for you.

Have heaps of fun.

Bert.

[dikman]

I recall reading earlier posts where this subject was raised and 1 1/2 wraps was said to be the correct way, which is why I was surprised by the Hightex method. It must work (for them) but it's got to be putting a lot of tension on the thread. Does anybody out there actually do it this way?

[Hildebrand]

I do the 1 and 1/2 wraps and run the bobbin counterclockwise.  I think I put the bobbin in wrong once and went clockwise and I don't remember there being any difference in the stitches.

Todd

[JLSleather]

I've seen those "manuals", where thread comes down from the upper tension, goes through that little coil, goes around the lower tension, and then around the lower tension, and back through the coil.

Where I come from (america)... all the way around the circle twice, back to where you started, is NOT "one and a half".  

[Bert51]

As I was playing with different tensions settings, I found the bottom tension pulley must turn and not slip on the pulley, especially with 20M or heavier.

I also found a few drops of oil on the felt washers every now and then also kept the tensions stable.

But I think each machine and each operator will need to find what suits them and their machine, my machine is as old as me and I know I do not work like I used to.............

Bert.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Bert51

[dikman]

3 hours ago, JLSleather said:

I've seen those "manuals", where thread comes down from the upper tension, goes through that little coil, goes around the lower tension, and then around the lower tension, and back through the coil.

That's exactly what Hightex do! As I said, it must create a lot of tension on the thread. It just seems pretty excessive to me?

Bert, I've got rifles significantly older than me and they definitely work better than me, given their age!!

[CowboyBob]

13 hours ago, Hildebrand said:

I do the 1 and 1/2 wraps and run the bobbin counterclockwise.  I think I put the bobbin in wrong once and went clockwise and I don't remember there being any difference in the stitches.

Todd

Todd,When it's clockwise there's a possibility the thread can work it's way out of the tension spring,it may or may not happen but when it does you'll be wondering why your getting loops on top.Counterclockwise prevents it from ever happening.

[JLSleather]

9 hours ago, dikman said:

As I said, it must create a lot of tension on the thread. It just seems pretty excessive to me?

Seems to work round here   But I have the bobbin tension cranked down with a torque wrench.... I like TIGHT stitchin'.

12 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

When it's clockwise there's a possibility the thread can work it's way out of the tension spring,it may or may not happen but when it does you'll be wondering why your getting loops on top.Counterclockwise prevents it from ever happening.

We may be looking at it from the other side the machine, Bob.  I run mine what I think is counter clockwise, and it do pop out on occasion (irritating as ever!).  Only when I start out.  Once it starts to stitch, I don't have that issue.  And it doesn't do it all the time, or I'd have a big hammer in my hand by now ...

[CowboyBob]

 

37 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

Seems to work round here   But I have the bobbin tension cranked down with a torque wrench.... I like TIGHT stitchin'.

We may be looking at it from the other side the machine, Bob.  I run mine what I think is counter clockwise, and it do pop out on occasion (irritating as ever!).  Only when I start out.  Once it starts to stitch, I don't have that issue.  And it doesn't do it all the time, or I'd have a big hammer in my hand by now ...

Jeff,

When you have the shuttle positioned so you can put the bobbin in from the top is the easiest way,then it should be spinning clockwise.

[JLSleather]

2 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

 

Jeff,

When you have the shuttle positioned so you can put the bobbin in from the top is the easiest way,then it should be spinning clockwise.

Mine has always gone the other way (counter clockwise no matter which way it's facing).  But today I'ma try it the other way, see what happens.  If ya hear a loud bang followed by silence... send help

 

[Wizcrafts]

I have all kinds of thread in my shop. Some of it tends to coil hard as it leaves the spool. With those I wrap the thread through the top and bottom holes in the top post (CB4500) in a counter clockwise direction. This reverses the twist as the thread goes to the top tension disks. I always roll it twice around the bottom roller counter clockwise to get all the kinks out. I feed the thread in and out of the loop over the bottom roller. This also gives the check spring more range of motion and makes it less likely the thread will come off the roller and get stuck in the spring.

[RemingtonSteel]

Dikman, I just created a post with original JUKI 441 Instruction Manual and Parts List. These should help you for when you get your new machine.  I hope it is soooon! 

 

[dikman]

Thanks mate. The place it's coming from is halfway to the middle of nowhere (Emerald, Queensland) and a looooong way from me! I'm expecting it by the end of next week. It appears there is no "right way" to wrap around that lower tension assembly as there are a couple of factors to take into account including, as Wiz pointed out, the type of thread. A matter of trying it to see which way works for me.

[Bert51]

I rarely use anything under 20M in my Adler now that I have other machines, it was only when I was using light thread that I did not wrap it around the pulley 1 1/2 times anti-clock wise and like JLS said, the tension is " cranked down", but I don't use a tension wrench.

Each machine is different and each operator sets their machine up differently, i remember a post not long ago of some one using hammers to get their tensions right, how I what my stitching to look, maybe not how you like it, so your tensions will be different to mine, but you need to follow the correct threading to get consistent stitching.

Mate, I'm not game to any rifles in this house, the wife keeps threatening to use one if I bring any more machines home....

Bert.

[dikman]

Hi, my name is Bert and I have a problem......

[Bert51]

Sadly....................