A new machine?

[toxo]

It would seem they're identical machines. The manuals are identical for both. Both descriptions say large capacity hook.The 8mm capacity is for pu? What's pu?

for bags and regular belts should that be a concern?

[mikesc]

PU = Polyurethane..( Vinyl ..not quite , but you get the picture ) Placcy ..Skai..

Which squashes a bit..so 8mm max thickness of material to be sewn..You could put 10mm of PU in..it would get squashed to 8mm and sew.

Chrome tan also squashes a bit..so you could put 9mm or 10mm of Chrome tan in and it would squash to 8mm and sew.

Veg tan..soft veg tan..10mm in squash down to 8mm ( maybe ) sew at 8mm..Higher density Veg Tan..8 mm in sew 8mm...

How useful to you that is.. depends upon what the maximum total thickness that you are going to be sewing is ?

Surprised at the 8mm..I would have thought it would do 10mm..given what it ( they are ) is a clone of.

Belts ? How many belts of 10mm thickness do you want to make..?

Crocs in the Kentish marshes ?

Bags..get your micrometer out and measure the max thickness of some of your bags ( where the straps are etc ) is 8mm enough to be comfortable..

I still say..take some leather ( some "sandwiches" ) 8mm total and 10mm total, and maybe even 12mm total..and sit down at the machines and sew them..You'll know by the feel of the machine if it is over it's limits..

Edited March 11, 2020 by mikesc

[chrisash]

Stop talking about those crock in the romney mashes Mike, they are a secret weapon against any invaders, Hush Hush

[Matt S]

On 3/10/2020 at 11:23 AM, toxo said:

Just spoke to Konsew. Price inc everything except EPS which will be £30. He's just offered the GLOBAL WF35 Cylinder Arm for the same price. He says it's better built than the Typical and made with better metal and it's not a clone unlike the Typical. What do you thnk guys?

https://konsew.com/industrial-sewing-machine/global-wf35-cylinder-arm-walking-foot-needle-feed

It's basically a Chinese clone or at least a close copy of the Pfaff 335 so will have most of the limitations of that type (not clear what bobbins, could be original G [small] or embiggened M). I suspect it'll have a 2-motion (as opposed to superior 4-motion) feed dog. I'm not sure what the quality differences are with Typical vs. Global, if any, but being setup for leather and backed/guaranteed by a "real" dealer/technical team will be a plus.

[toxo]

2 minutes ago, Matt S said:

It's basically a Chinese clone or at least a close copy of the Pfaff 335 so will have most of the limitations of that type (not clear what bobbins, could be original G [small] or embiggened M). I suspect it'll have a 2-motion (as opposed to superior 4-motion) feed dog. I'm not sure what the quality differences are with Typical vs. Global, if any, but being setup for leather and backed/guaranteed by a "real" dealer/technical team will be a plus.

When I read this I laughed like a whipped dog. Is there no end to my torment? So come on Matt - how do the two motions work and how much difference does it make? I hope you know that if I buy one of these I won't be able to love it properly because of it's inferiority complex!

[Matt S]

7 hours ago, toxo said:

When I read this I laughed like a whipped dog. Is there no end to my torment? So come on Matt - how do the two motions work and how much difference does it make? I hope you know that if I buy one of these I won't be able to love it properly because of it's inferiority complex!

Well with a simple 2-motion feed dog the feed dog moves forwards and back in time with the needle, no up and down movement. A 4-motion feed dog drops away from the workpiece while it's moving towards you and pops up again just before the needle comes down.

What's the disadvantage of a 2-motion over a 4-motion? A less positive feed and maybe more likely to mark the backside, depending on your material. Advantages? It fits within a small cylinder casting and is a bit simpler. 2-motion feed dogs work, but it depends on your expected work. There's probably over a million small-cylinder machines with 2-motion feed dogs in use around the world and I expect most of their operators don't notice the difference. But there is a difference.

[mikesc]

And then there is "square motion"..which you are not going to get on the kind of machine that you want..yet..but which is better again. :)

[toxo]

So I'm guessing the next step up would be The Tysew? Is it a better choice or not? We're talking another £300 ish but I'd like to find something where nobody is gonna pipe up with "Not a bad machine BUT)". I've an idea that it's out of my reach but I'd like to get as close to it as possible.

https://www.tysew.co.uk/industrial-sewing-machines/cylinder-arm/tysew-ty-3600c-1-cylinder-arm-walking-foot-needle-feed?language=en&currency=GBP&gclid=CjwKCAiAzJLzBRAZEiwAmZb0at7aaJqWUU0x7xpZxcai98FS6p83HXmehj693DL_sjLfv3_jsN_FKhoC81cQAvD_BwE

Edited March 11, 2020 by toxo

[mikesc]

Don't know Tysew..

But :) .. as always ..the important things are ..what is the max sewing thickness ( not "lift" by lever or foot lift ) and what is the max sewing thread thickness..in the bobbin..Top thread can always be a size higher than the bobbin..but bobbin max is down to the clearance available..and how close  does it sew to the edge  ?

Edited March 11, 2020 by mikesc

[RockyAussie]

1 hour ago, toxo said:

So I'm guessing the next step up would be The Tysew? Is it a better choice or not? We're talking another £300 ish but I'd like to find something where nobody is gonna pipe up with "Not a bad machine BUT)". I've an idea that it's out of my reach but I'd like to get as close to it as possible.

https://www.tysew.co.uk/industrial-sewing-machines/cylinder-arm/tysew-ty-3600c-1-cylinder-arm-walking-foot-needle-feed?language=en&currency=GBP&gclid=CjwKCAiAzJLzBRAZEiwAmZb0at7aaJqWUU0x7xpZxcai98FS6p83HXmehj693DL_sjLfv3_jsN_FKhoC81cQAvD_BwE

That is a very poorly described machine but to me it looks the same as the other 2 mentioned before. Like the Techsew 2600 which has an elliptical type feed dog  as standard I think these others all do as well. The pfaff 335 standard comes with only a back and forward motion with out a drop down unless you get the "P" version which is pretty rare to find. I think that you are going to want to run a thicker thread and a thicker material capability than these machines you have found offer. Have another look at the CB227R /Techsew 2700 /Consew 227R and any other of the similar clones. Better thickness capability both in thread and leather sewing thickness. Cheaper but at the expense of a G bobbin instead of the M bobbin. If you plan on doing a LOT of belts move up to the Juki LS 341 clones with the larger M bobbins. I mentioned these earlier in the post.