Flattening a Tandy round knife

[Klara]

Completely OT but not worth a thread of its own: All this talk about steel and sharpening makes me wonder whether I should try to strop my bread knife. A dowel rod a bit smaller than a tooth, some leather stuck to it, honing compound - could work, couldn't it?

[chuck123wapati]

On 6/4/2021 at 12:40 AM, Klara said:

Completely OT but not worth a thread of its own: All this talk about steel and sharpening makes me wonder whether I should try to strop my bread knife. A dowel rod a bit smaller than a tooth, some leather stuck to it, honing compound - could work, couldn't it?

Sure it would work but if you have a plain old butchers/ kitchen steel it works every bit as good on a bread knife as any kitchen knife. Once you have your edge just hit it a few licks with the steel then again after after cutting your bread then wipe it down and put it away for next time. No need to overthink sharpening its been done successfully for centuries. 

[Klara]

The diameter of steel I have is bigger than the diameter of the teeth. My bread knife doesn't have one edge but many - in a book on kitchen knives I've read that bread knives are probably not worth sharpening, one should buy a new one when they no longer cut at all. They do saw pretty well for a pretty well for a pretty long time, after all. But I was struck how well my new knife cut, and I believe it has lost that edge (pun intended. Interesting how many everyday expressions are knife-related, isn't it? )

 

[toxo]

On 4/26/2020 at 4:04 AM, RockyAussie said:

a bluntened off  belt

There's Aussie right there! Made me smile Brian.

I sometimes think thats where I should have been. Three of us were going to do the £10 thing many years ago but I chickened out. But there's defo some Aussie in me. Couldn't handle the flies though.

Edited June 6, 2021 by toxo

[toxo]

On 6/1/2021 at 8:02 AM, Klara said:

Are there even any round knives on the market where the exact kind of steel is known?

I've been thinking whether I should ask my knife-making friend to make me one - or book a workshop to make one with his instruction - but I'd get two new Osbornes for the price, with a more certain outcome...

 

Steel manufacturers know exactly the kind of steel they're making. Good steel can be ruined in the process but starting off with the right steel is half the battle.

Klara, If you want to make a knife try a high speed circular saw blade thats made for cutting steel. cut it out with a grinder but cut it oversize so you don't ruin the edge. Keeping it cool is uber important at all times but more so later when working on the edge. A rule of thumb is the colour of the sparks. The brighter the sparks, the more carbon is in the steel. Put an old file on the grinder to get what I mean. Don't worry about this talk of "too brittle" we're talking about a knife here not a hardwood axe.

[toxo]

2 hours ago, Klara said:

The diameter of steel I have is bigger than the diameter of the teeth. My bread knife doesn't have one edge but many - in a book on kitchen knives I've read that bread knives are probably not worth sharpening, one should buy a new one when they no longer cut at all. They do saw pretty well for a pretty well for a pretty long time, after all. But I was struck how well my new knife cut, and I believe it has lost that edge (pun intended. Interesting how many everyday expressions are knife-related, isn't it? )

 

Wrap some fine emery paper around the right size rod for the size of the teeth. You could even use a wooden dowel with some of the honing compound on it. Nothing to lose.

[chuck123wapati]

6 hours ago, Klara said:

The diameter of steel I have is bigger than the diameter of the teeth. My bread knife doesn't have one edge but many - in a book on kitchen knives I've read that bread knives are probably not worth sharpening, one should buy a new one when they no longer cut at all. They do saw pretty well for a pretty well for a pretty long time, after all. But I was struck how well my new knife cut, and I believe it has lost that edge (pun intended. Interesting how many everyday expressions are knife-related, isn't it? )

 

i'm sorry i use a straight bladed bread knife lol because i hate serrated blades for just this reason. You can still use the steel on the flat side of the blade or get a small round diamond stone or even regular round stone, your dowel would work also.

 

[Klara]

7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

i'm sorry i use a straight bladed bread knife lol because i hate serrated blades for just this reason. You can still use the steel on the flat side of the blade or get a small round diamond stone or even regular round stone, your dowel would work also.

 

Out of curiosity: What makes a straight-bladed bread knife a bread knife instead of just another kitchen knife? This afternoon I attacked mine with a dowel rod, sandpaper and honing compound, but I couldn't say whether it's now better than it was.

But I discovered that IKEA does identify the steel: X50CrMoV15. Whatever that means...

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

Out of curiosity: What makes a straight-bladed bread knife a bread knife instead of just another kitchen knife? This afternoon I attacked mine with a dowel rod, sandpaper and honing compound, but I couldn't say whether it's now better than it was.

But I discovered that IKEA does identify the steel: X50CrMoV15. Whatever that means...

Mine are really long very slender knives with a blunt tip and straight cutting edge other than that really nothing, they work awesome for cutting tomatoes paper thin also ham or roasts. Mine are pretty old, probably made in the 50s, before they mostly went to serrated blades, i have the complete set of Maxam kitchen knives they were made in Japan and are really nice tools. they have to be kept razor sharp to get through the crust but when they are you can cut very straight with them

X50crmov15 is stainless steel made in Germany. It's somewhere between mid- and high-range quality-wise. This is the go-to option for people who want a great knife they can rely on for the right price. This steel has little to no flaws and great reviews all around.X50CrMoV15 Steel is synonymous with kitchen knives. If you're shopping for a new kitchen or chef knife today, chances are high you'll get a knife from a popular brand with the X50CrMoV15 Steel blade

Edited June 6, 2021 by chuck123wapati

[Klara]

Thanks for the info! I was struck by how well my first Vörda knife cut when new (I admit I find them hard to sharpen and am not as diligent as I should be) - I picked it up for 5 € in the returns section. The regular price isn't much higher...

[chuck123wapati]

On 6/7/2021 at 1:20 AM, Klara said:

Thanks for the info! I was struck by how well my first Vörda knife cut when new (I admit I find them hard to sharpen and am not as diligent as I should be) - I picked it up for 5 € in the returns section. The regular price isn't much higher...

your very welcome, that was a good buy indeed i buy many knives from our local thrift store and yard sales etc. You have to know what your looking at however.

[scrapyarddog]

On 6/3/2021 at 6:58 AM, chuck123wapati said:

it would be interesting to know. Keep me posted. I doubt it too however its way to hard to work and more for pocket knives and such. A round knife would cost hundreds and really again the average leather worker just doesn't need it, now maybe if you were cutting all day on a much larger scale.

D2. It’s not 430 or M390. Chemistry does not match.

[chuck123wapati]

42 minutes ago, scrapyarddog said:

D2. It’s not 430 or M390. Chemistry does not match.

d2 has been used for years in knife making and is pretty good quality steel, that would lead me to believe the problems are associated with the hardening and tempering processes. Quality control issue IMO as we can see from the posts some folks get good knives and some don't. 

[scrapyarddog]

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

d2 has been used for years in knife making and is pretty good quality steel, that would lead me to believe the problems are associated with the hardening and tempering processes. Quality control issue IMO as we can see from the posts some folks get good knives and some don't. 

Hmmm… D2 is not shabby by any means but is probably not on the same tier as M390 or the like. However, I think you are right about the hardening or lack of on the Tandy is probably a good reason why it underperforms. My experience with other blades made of D2, while just ok, isn’t this underwhelming.

I was thinking it might be 400 stainless but it wasn’t that abysmal.

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, scrapyarddog said:

Hmmm… D2 is not shabby by any means but is probably not on the same tier as M390 or the like. However, I think you are right about the hardening or lack of on the Tandy is probably a good reason why it underperforms. My experience with other blades made of D2, while just ok, isn’t this underwhelming.

I was thinking it might be 400 stainless but it wasn’t that abysmal.

Its a good choice for lower price decent knives, alot of customs are made from it and really a round knife doesn't necessarily need to cost 200 bucks or be the toughest steel in the world to be good we need to remember Tandy sells to hobbyists mostly so they may only use the thing a couple times a day or less where a pro may want and can afford a better steel that holds up for serious daily cutting. 62 Rockwell hardness is plenty and it will do that if treated right.

 

[scrapyarddog]

6 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

Its a good choice for lower price decent knives, alot of customs are made from it and really a round knife doesn't necessarily need to cost 200 bucks or be the toughest steel in the world to be good we need to remember Tandy sells to hobbyists mostly so they may only use the thing a couple times a day or less where a pro may want and can afford a better steel that holds up for serious daily cutting. 62 Rockwell hardness is plenty and it will do that if treated right.

 

I don’t think the Tandy version is 62. It bends and flexes differently from some D2 I have that are at 60-62, and doesn’t hold an edge as well. Not a scientifically tested assessment but it’s somewhat obvious.

A hobbyist using a round knife…? Hmmm… honestly, I rarely use a round knife and I spent a few hours a day on leather.

 

[chuck123wapati]

52 minutes ago, scrapyarddog said:

I don’t think the Tandy version is 62. It bends and flexes differently from some D2 I have that are at 60-62, and doesn’t hold an edge as well. Not a scientifically tested assessment but it’s somewhat obvious.

A hobbyist using a round knife…? Hmmm… honestly, I rarely use a round knife and I spent a few hours a day on leather.

 

thickness, length, shape, hardness and tempering will cause those differences. Yup hobbyist's read and watch videos same as pros. 

[scrapyarddog]

4 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

Yup hobbyist's read and watch videos same as pros. 

No, what I mean is round knives have limited applications for most hobbyist, and it honestly isn't the safest or easiest tool.

[Klara]

But hobbyists see leatherworkers use them in videos (wrongly, if what a supposes pro once wrote here) and want one as well. I only bought a head knife instead because it was 30 % (€ 10) cheaper and because the handle was slightly less awful. Imagine my surprise when I afterwards read here that that was the right choice as head knives are for cutting but round knives only (!) for skiving... 

[tsunkasapa]

7 hours ago, Klara said:

But hobbyists see leatherworkers use them in videos (wrongly, if what a supposes pro once wrote here) and want one as well. I only bought a head knife instead because it was 30 % (€ 10) cheaper and because the handle was slightly less awful. Imagine my surprise when I afterwards read here that that was the right choice as head knives are for cutting but round knives only (!) for skiving... 

Many people use the two terms interchangeably, not realizing that they are two different tools.

[chuck123wapati]

7 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

Many people use the two terms interchangeably, not realizing that they are two different tools.

many people use the tools interchangeably also. lol 

[chuck123wapati]

10 hours ago, scrapyarddog said:

No, what I mean is round knives have limited applications for most hobbyist, and it honestly isn't the safest or easiest tool.

Your right but that doesn't stop them from buying the product and that is all Tandy wants them /us to do, buy their product so they make them affordable and they cant do that with top grade steel because just selling to pros wont pay the bills friend. Tandy has and always will be a seller of low to mid range tools imo and that is what started the leather craft business as we know it and what brings new blood into the craft.

[Klara]

And I am grateful for that. I don't want to spend a lot of money on a knife before I know whether I even like the style and will use it. Now that I know that I will be constantly using my head knife I'm thinking about buying better quality. If I even need to once I've really learnt to sharpen it...

[jcuk]

Here is a link thats shows the different types on knives, scroll down to page 12, some people including myself call the head knives single or double head knife, just to add to the confusion. Its an old Joseph Dixon catalog so i think they should know what they are talking about.

https://www.boothandco.com/catalogue.pdf

Hope this helps

JCUK

[chuck123wapati]

3 hours ago, Klara said:

 If I even need to once I've really learnt to sharpen it...

That is the key what you really need to know about the edge quality is it the knifes fault or yours! If you cant sharpen it correctly throwing more money at it wont help a bit. Buying decent quality sharpening tools would be more beneficial.