insole stitcher needle size 45x230 = which thread?

[Con]

I am thinking of buying an insole stitcher – a manual basic machine listed as RC-32-4A (see pic) from www.robinindustry.com Bobbin arm at 20mm thick. On inquiring I am told the needle size is 45x230 but I'm not familiar with needle to thread size options... I am looking for some guidance from members who have knowledge about this needle to thread challenge. Twisted waxed linen and sometimes polyester thread of 1mm round is what I use when hand sewing a midsole to a one piece upper and this works fine. If I use the same thread would this be tight or sloppy as a lock stitch in a hole made by a “needle size of 45x230” is my question. Any guidance appreciated.

[chrisash]

Needle size 230 is equal to thread size 207 = tkt size 15 giving a thread diameter of .0231 of a inch or 0.586 mm 

see https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

[Northmount]

@Con moved your post to leather sewing machines.

Tom

 

[Wizcrafts]

On 4/26/2020 at 8:38 PM, Con said:

needle size of 45x230

This is a needle "System," not a size. The system seems to be rare. I have only found these needles for sale in Germany (online stores) and then only in "size" 26. This is a very big needle that can sew with up to #346 bonded nylon thread.

[Wizcrafts]

As a follow-up, I recommend contacting Robin about where they get their needles and if they can supply them to you in various "sizes."

On 4/26/2020 at 8:38 PM, Con said:

Twisted waxed linen and sometimes polyester thread of 1mm round is what I use when hand sewing a midsole to a one piece upper and this works fine. If I use the same thread would this be tight or sloppy as a lock stitch in a hole made by a “needle size of 45x230” is my question.

FYI: There is no needle size commonly available that can easily pass 1mm waxed thread in a closed eye lockstitch machine currently in production. The largest needle listed in this chart is a #30 (Metric 330). Even that huge needle isn't large enough to clear 1mm diameter thread, especially if it is waxed.

What machine do you need to sew with 1mm waxed linen thread?

You need a shoe sole stitcher like a Landis 12 series curved needle and awl lockstitch machine. There might possibly be some huge needles and awls available for a McKay insole chainstitch machine, which is really what you'll want for midsoles. Here is a YouTube video about the McKay stitcher's threading and usage.

Campbell-Randall Lockstitch, Union Lockstitch and Landis 3 are needle and awl machines then can take huge needles and awls, IF there are any still available. I used to own a Union Lockstitch machine and had acquired a huge assortment of needles, some of which could handle 10 cord linen thread! They closely resembled roofing nails!

My personal guess is that the Robin machine in question may be limited to about 1/2 mm thread. The needle size required for that diameter is #23 (metric #160)

[Constabulary]

I assume the needle is similar to 328 / 214x1 since the GA5-1 / GA5-5  sewing machine is mentioned and AFAIK they take 328 needles - but I may be wrong.

EDIT:

just found this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWENTY-SEWLINE-NEEDLES-FOR-SL-5-1-and-GA-5-1-45-230-INDUSTRIAL-SEWING-MACHINE-/222275233412

scroll down to the machine list - Singer 45 is mentioned so is must be the 214x1 / 328 needle but better check with the machine seller.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Constabulary

[Wizcrafts]

I just sent a message to Robin on Facebook, asking about the thread and needle handling maximums (and max stitch length) and if they supply needles. I will post their reply after I get it.

[jimi]

I think maybe they are referring to what Folker is saying?? If the arm is 20mm thick and if that is the bobbins hanging on the arm of the machine then it is not going to hold a lot of 1mm thick linen that you want??? Just if you were wondering the Frobana uses size 3,4 and 5 needles, nº5 having a 1mm eye (just measured it ) and the needle for that is Syst. 761 PG L.

[Bert51]

Thanks Constabulary, I think I understand how they have shown the sizing.

They seem to show it as a Singer 45 Needle, Size 230, when they should have shown it as a  328 or 214x1 or 2.

Bert.

[Con]

Hi all, thank you for the replies. I use a Junker & Ruh SD28 for outsoles with 1mm twisted waxed thread. I clean the bobbin from wax buildup after it gets empty. One bobbin does two outsoles with thread left over. The Junker & Ruh SD28 sews the rubber outsole to the midsole very nicely, it leaves a topstitch that 'sits' into the rubber a bit but as it is a lock stitch and the shoes/boots are made on a last, the thread does not touch the ground unless the sole is worn down by 3-4mm - it should have been resoled before that wear / abuse. 

The needle size of the RC-32-4A  is quite confusing at 45x230. Questions about this to Robin get no reply - that is why I asked here.  It is unlikely to be for 0.5mm thread as the image of shoes on the page for the insole stitcher also show the soles stitched and it looks at least 1mm / 2mm - see pic attached. The attached image below is of an outsole sewn to a shoe upper -  I intend to sew a 3 or 4mm veg tan midsole to the upper with a RC-32-4A and to then sew a rubber outsole to the midsole using the Junker & Ruh SD28. I currently sew the midsole to the upper by hand and the outsole to the midsole using the Junker & Ruh SD28.  The small bobbin capacity of the RC-32-4A may be sufficient for 2 midsoles, but even 1 is ok.

I make modern wearable versions of bronze age to medieval age Irish shoes and boots based on my researching of museum grade artifacts. I can actually produce this footwear completely by hand at home. The hand sewing of the midsole to the one piece upper is 'unnecessary hardship'  and the RC-32-4A looks like the solution my small scale plan requires.

I do not want to have to guess the thread for the 45x230 needle as I cannot buy thread in Ireland so have to rely on the internet - flat braided is often sold as round twisted...

I'll try Robin again.

Thanks for the support.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Con