pasting leather

[sbrownn]

I'm interested in techniques for pasting the backside of leather.  I have tried rubbing with gum trag and it is okay but not nearly as good as factory pasted.

[battlemunky]

Is pasting the term for making the flesh side smooth? I have also used gum trag and have also not gotten the factory smooth look.

[Retswerb]

I’d love to learn this as well. I bought some pasted back leather last year from Zack White Leather for a commission of some coin purses and man was it ever nice to work with.

[Sheilajeanne]

I had some very bad, hairy leather from Tandy that was to be the straps on a tote bag. Sanding and burnishing didn't do much of anything, so I applied gum trag followed by atom wax. That smoothed things out, but the leather became very stiff. I really didn't want to put neatsfoot oil on it in case it would rub off on someone's clothing, but finally put a light coating on it, and it did help.

Would be most happy to hear other people's solutions!

[Matt S]

I've played around with a few things, but never got as good as a tannery finish (which shouldn't be a surprise). Most things that you'd use for edge burnishing worked to an extent -- gum trag, gum arabic, saddle soap, plain water. I found running the pasted leather through a pasta machine while it was still damp worked fairly well, until the pasta machine broke. Slicking with something that I could really put some pressure on was pretty good too. You can get glass slickers for the purpose. I also found that, like edge burnishing, the results varied quite proportionally with the quality of the leather.

[billybopp]

4 minutes ago, Matt S said:

I've played around with a few things, but never got as good as a tannery finish (which shouldn't be a surprise). Most things that you'd use for edge burnishing worked to an extent -- gum trag, gum arabic, saddle soap, plain water. I found running the pasted leather through a pasta machine while it was still damp worked fairly well, until the pasta machine broke. Slicking with something that I could really put some pressure on was pretty good too. You can get glass slickers for the purpose. I also found that, like edge burnishing, the results varied quite proportionally with the quality of the leather.

I wonder if an old washing machine wringer would work for bigger pieces ... Hmmmmm

- Bill

[Mustangdave]

I had very good success using the following method. Get an old or very inexpensive clothes iron. On the lowest setting, press the flesh side of the leather until it it is warm enough to liquify 100% pure wax without burning the leather and follow the iron with a block of the beeswax. After the piece is coated in the wax, allow to cool completely, then go back over the piece with just the iron to even things out a bit.  It takes a bit of practice to get right on but works really well, and if done before the work of stitching and edge finishing etc it is not overly hard or stiff and won’t flake or rub off.

 

[battlemunky]

53 minutes ago, Mustangdave said:

I had very good success using the following method. Get an old or very inexpensive clothes iron. On the lowest setting, press the flesh side of the leather until it it is warm enough to liquify 100% pure wax without burning the leather and follow the iron with a block of the beeswax. After the piece is coated in the wax, allow to cool completely, then go back over the piece with just the iron to even things out a bit.  It takes a bit of practice to get right on but works really well, and if done before the work of stitching and edge finishing etc it is not overly hard or stiff and won’t flake or rub off.

 

Interesting. I figured I'd get inventive and tried ironing some leather once. On high. It didn't turn out well. Microwaving isn't good either. I'm going to (gently) fire up the iron and mess around again. I had given up figuring even low'd be to hot but it sounds like further experimentation is in order. Good to know there's still room for adventure!

[toxo]

At the risk of sounding stupid - Has anyone tried paste? As in wallpaper paste! It is a glue right? and as far as I know doesn't rub off on anything.

[fredk]

I use my beeswax/carnuaba wax/nfo mix. I use my harder version. I apply it with a cloth and rub it in. Takes some work but I can get a nice smooth and shiney surface, almost as good as the grain side. I do it on all belts and straps I make.

[Matt S]

39 minutes ago, toxo said:

At the risk of sounding stupid - Has anyone tried paste? As in wallpaper paste! It is a glue right? and as far as I know doesn't rub off on anything.

Yep, it works okay. I think it's some sort of starch. Works on burnishing edges too, though it doesn't go very shiny.

[jcuk]

This may be of interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUV5-dOjVFA

[Mustangdave]

20 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Yep, it works okay. I think it's some sort of starch. Works on burnishing edges too, though it doesn't go very shiny.

Wallpaper paste is a starch based paste. I am not sure how it will react with the tannins in the leather over time. 

That being said, to add to my above post, for clarity, I only work with veg tanned leather, use linen thread, oil or iron based dyes and vegetable or fish based oils and 100% pure bees wax, in short things that were available to our ancestors only.

[fredk]

1 hour ago, Mustangdave said:

 in short things that were available to our ancestors only.

That is a very ambiguous statement.

How far back do you want to go? Bees' wax, lanolin oils and beeves fat, now known to us as neetsfoot oil, was used by the Saxons and 'Vikings', (400 AD and after). The Romans (350 BC to 600 AD) used bees' wax and lanolin oils. Carnauba, being from South America is from after the 1500s, and seems to being used on furniture by the 1750s. Not all threads were linen. There was also thread made from nettles and birch bark

[Mustangdave]

Yes but synthetic fibers, synthetic oils, analine dye stuffs and chromium tanned leathers were not widely available if available at all until the 20th century.

[sbrownn]

6 hours ago, Mustangdave said:

I had very good success using the following method. Get an old or very inexpensive clothes iron. On the lowest setting, press the flesh side of the leather until it it is warm enough to liquify 100% pure wax without burning the leather and follow the iron with a block of the beeswax. After the piece is coated in the wax, allow to cool completely, then go back over the piece with just the iron to even things out a bit.  It takes a bit of practice to get right on but works really well, and if done before the work of stitching and edge finishing etc it is not overly hard or stiff and won’t flake or rub off.

 

That was my thought as well:  both heat and pressure.  I think though I would try it with gum trag or tokonone before wax though.

Thanks

5 hours ago, toxo said:

At the risk of sounding stupid - Has anyone tried paste? As in wallpaper paste! It is a glue right? and as far as I know doesn't rub off on anything.

That's an interesting thought.

It is cheap.

[sbrownn]

5 hours ago, battlemunky said:

Interesting. I figured I'd get inventive and tried ironing some leather once. On high. It didn't turn out well. Microwaving isn't good either. I'm going to (gently) fire up the iron and mess around again. I had given up figuring even low'd be to hot but it sounds like further experimentation is in order. Good to know there's still room for adventure!

I microwave the leather I'm going to press in a mold all of the time.  As a caveat though I use wax and tallow stuffed leathers and just heat them long enough to soften the wax and tallow.  A typical iPhone case takes about 10 seconds.

1 minute ago, sbrownn said:

I microwave the leather I'm going to press in a mold all of the time.  As a caveat though I use wax and tallow stuffed leathers and just heat them long enough to soften the wax and tallow.  A typical iPhone case takes about 10 seconds.

One thing I haven't tried is heating the leather I want to paste before working on it.  Thanks for the thought!

[battlemunky]

Ha! I nuked some wet veg tan thinking I could wet mold it and it turned brown and shriveled and stank. I think I only went for 20 seconds or so. 

[johnv474]

Tha bang-for-the-buck option is CMC.  Tokonole is a better and pricier option.  The latter likely contains the former.  CMC is available as a powder in bakery/restaurant supply shop because it is a thickener for cake frosting.

If there are tons of long, loose fibers it might take some shaving or sanding to remove them first.  That might not be required but makes for less work later.

I used this stuff (CMC) to take a piece of pebbled kidskin, smooth the back and front, and it wound up looking a bit like shell cordovan.  I jokingly called it 'practice cordovan'. 

The process was to put my leather on something very flat (stone or thick glass), slather on CMC and then use a glass slicker and lots of pressure to 'glaze' the leather.  A stone rolling pin would probably be a good choice.  An empty glass jelly jar (with no bumps) would be the improvise-it method.

Edited July 5, 2020 by johnv474

[jcuk]

I have tried three methods, i was happy with the results having said that not something i do often as i mainly work leather finished both sides.

First time i dyed the top side with oil based dye, with the flesh side i dyed with a water based dye once it dried i used Astral heel wax polish to seal it gave it going over with my rubbing stick.

https://shoemakerstoolmakers.com/collection/astral-edge-amp-heel-wax

The other method i used was quicker less fuss i used Fiebling's edge enamel done this in two practice pieces first one did not use the Astral wax to seal again happy with it, the other test piece i did use the Astral wax seemed ok to me too both again gave them a good going over with the rubbing stick.

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

[sbrownn]

On 7/4/2020 at 4:55 PM, battlemunky said:

Ha! I nuked some wet veg tan thinking I could wet mold it and it turned brown and shriveled and stank. I think I only went for 20 seconds or so. 

Nuked it for to long.  Takes about 10 seconds.