Inexpensive diamond Stitching chisel for making stitch holes in holster ?

[Hardrada]

19 hours ago, bcraig said:

I looked at the Pictures of the Chisels and they did not appear to me to be shaped like a Diamond Chisel.
I am merely try to find what I want.
I am not a Troll ,just a 60 year old man trying to find exactly what I want.
HOWEVER if you CHOOSE to consider Me  a Troll and want to add me to your Ignore list then by all means do so.
That is Merely your Your Mistaken Opinion and your Mistake and I Promise you that I will Lose no sleep over your Mistake.

Bcraig, the bit about "all STITCHING chisels" being diamond-shaped is wrong. Some chisels are European style and their holes are not diamonds but slits like these: \ \ \ \ \.

I just got me a pair of those from KS Blade. They are NOT cheap, though. (https://ksbladepunch.com/product/pricking-irons-black)**

Seiwa makes an economical version of the European style chisels, which you can get from Goodsjapan.com; I wasn't impressed with the reviews I watched of them, though. I've no problem swearing by the Seiwa diamond-shaped, but their European style just didn't rock my boat.

Part of the confusion with these items comes from diluting the definitions/boundaries of two different items that are used for stitching: i.e. PRICKING IRONS vs. stitching CHISELS. The exhibit Spyros posted above from Blanchard is a European style PRICKING IRON, whereas the one in the picture below is a Seiwa diamond CHISEL.

 

Note that even Goodsjapan.com is labeling the latter as a 'pricking iron' (AND as a chisel ). See? Even suppliers do it, adding to the confusion.

So, what's the difference then?

A pricking iron is designed to MARK where the stitching holes on the leather will go. The holes are actually made by piercing the leather with a stitching awl, whose blade is usually diamond-shaped. Pricking irons are NOT designed nor meant to pierce (punch) through the leather and make the holes –although I reckon it's possible to use them as punches if you strike them hard enough with a mallet and your leather is not too thick.

A stitching punch, on the other hand is designed to not just mark where the stitching holes will go but to make them as well. They are punches—built strong enough to pierce through thick layers of leather without breaking. So, you no longer need an awl to stitch. Chisels are now preferred by many leather workers because it speeds up the process and neats up the stitching. As mentioned above, you can have chisels in both diamond and European style. They even make round ones (https://ksbladepunch.com/product/round-dent-black), and, yes, for lacing too. Lacing punches, however, are not angled, but horizontally oriented, like so: – – – –.

In your specific case, I would recommend the Seiwa diamond chisels: https://www.goodsjapan.com/seiwa-diamond-leather-stitching-chisel-leathercraft-pricking-iron-tool-6x4mm/a-19162

I linked you to the 4 mm version, but they have them in other stitching measurements, such as 3 mm. It all depends on what you're making. See here: https://www.ianatkinson.net/leather/leatherguide.htm#stitching

_____________________________

**Again, you have a manufacturer adding to the confusion by labeling a punch a 'pricking iron'.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Hardrada

[Hardrada]

14 hours ago, Spyros said:

Osborne should probably try a little harder with their website, those photos look like they were shot on a phone and then someone cut them out of the background in Microsoft Paint.

At least Blanchard is also selling on Etsy and that forced them to upload some bigger photos so you can see what you're actually buying.  And even they, I don't get it, would it kill them to get some new punches to stamp their logo properly?  This looks like a photo of a breakfast fork lying on a public toilet floor.

 

Then, there are some resellers of Blanchard with pics like these:

https://craftntools.com/vergez-blanchard/pricking-irons/pricking-iron-size-9

Edited July 13, 2020 by Hardrada

[Spyros]

2 hours ago, Hardrada said:

Then, there are some resellers of Blanchard with pics like these:

https://craftntools.com/vergez-blanchard/pricking-irons/pricking-iron-size-9

They're good photos, for the most part, with the occasional crappy one thrown in there for good measure

Sorry, I'm neat picking obviously, but having done product photography in the past it amazes me how little care is taken sometimes, even for expensive items.  By definition, crafts people are supposed to be sensitive to aesthetics, right?  I think when you're selling to them, even if it's a totally utilitarian item, it pays to appeal to as many aesthetic criteria as you can.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Spyros

[Hardrada]

1 hour ago, Spyros said:

They're good photos, for the most part, with the occasional crappy one thrown in there for good measure

Sorry, I'm neat picking obviously, but having done product photography in the past it amazes me how little care is taken sometimes, even for expensive items.  By definition, crafts people are supposed to be sensitive to aesthetics, right?  I think when you're selling to them, even if it's a totally utilitarian item, it pays to appeal to as many aesthetic criteria as you can.

I hear you. I've done commercial photo work too. I always tried to make business owners understand that specially now in the age of the Internet, when customers who buy online cannot physically handle an item it is all the more paramount to convey as many of the item's properties (texture, dimensions, &c., &c.) visually, which requires proper lighting and styling. But no, they always think that all it takes is an elcheapo lightbox off Amazon and an iPhone and can thus 'do it in house', don't they?

[Spyros]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:56 AM, Matt S said:

Osborne tools are made in the US. Some smaller/artisan makers out there too, as well as quality tools made by nations which align closer with your values than China (George Barnsley of England for instance, and Blanchard of France). Don't be surprised at the price being at least 5x times that of a Chinese tool -- it's amazing what you can save by employing virtual slaves, ignoring environmental concerns and having your shipping prices subsidised by the government in order to undercut the manufacturing capabilities of foreign nations.

I am the last person to argue with this, people who work need to get paid a decent wage, and the whole planet needs to come down like a tonne of bricks on factories that don't take every possible measure to contain pollution.  Absolutely no argument there.

Now, about Blanchard, to me their irons look suspiciously simple to produce and their prices seem outrageous even with French wages and EU environmental regulations. But I will not argue with that either because I am not a metalworker, and someone will tell me that their grandpa inherited a Blanchard iron from his grandpa and it still works great today because it's made from special unobtainium.  Fine, I don't have the knowledge to argue.

However, I do know woodworking.  And when I see the price on this thing I know that someone is taking the piss.

https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/515613297/leather-stitching-clamp-verni-vergez?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=vergez+blanchard&ref=sr_gallery-1-14&frs=1    

This doesn't cost more than $30 whether you use a CNC in Vietnam or in Switzerland.

[bcraig]

7 hours ago, Hardrada said:

Bcraig, the bit about "all STITCHING chisels" being diamond-shaped is wrong. Some chisels are European style and their holes are not diamonds but slits like these: \ \ \ \ \.

I just got me a pair of those from KS Blade. They are NOT cheap, though. (https://ksbladepunch.com/product/pricking-irons-black)**

Seiwa makes an economical version of the European style chisels, which you can get from Goodsjapan.com; I wasn't impressed with the reviews I watched of them, though. I've no problem swearing by the Seiwa diamond-shaped, but their European style just didn't rock my boat.

Part of the confusion with these items comes from diluting the definitions/boundaries of two different items that are used for stitching: i.e. PRICKING IRONS vs. stitching CHISELS. The exhibit Spyros posted above from Blanchard is a European style PRICKING IRON, whereas the one in the picture below is a Seiwa diamond CHISEL.

 

Note that even Goodsjapan.com is labeling the latter as a 'pricking iron' (AND as a chisel ). See? Even suppliers do it, adding to the confusion.

So, what's the difference then?

A pricking iron is designed to MARK where the stitching holes on the leather will go. The holes are actually made by piercing the leather with a stitching awl, whose blade is usually diamond-shaped. Pricking irons are NOT designed nor meant to pierce (punch) through the leather and make the holes –although I reckon it's possible to use them as punches if you strike them hard enough with a mallet and your leather is not too thick.

A stitching punch, on the other hand is designed to not just mark where the stitching holes will go but to make them as well. They are punches—built strong enough to pierce through thick layers of leather without breaking. So, you no longer need an awl to stitch. Chisels are now preferred by many leather workers because it speeds up the process and neats up the stitching. As mentioned above, you can have chisels in both diamond and European style. They even make round ones (https://ksbladepunch.com/product/round-dent-black), and, yes, for lacing too. Lacing punches, however, are not angled, but horizontally oriented, like so: – – – –.

In your specific case, I would recommend the Seiwa diamond chisels: https://www.goodsjapan.com/seiwa-diamond-leather-stitching-chisel-leathercraft-pricking-iron-tool-6x4mm/a-19162

I linked you to the 4 mm version, but they have them in other stitching measurements, such as 3 mm. It all depends on what you're making. See here: https://www.ianatkinson.net/leather/leatherguide.htm#stitching

_____________________________

**Again, you have a manufacturer adding to the confusion by labeling a punch a 'pricking iron'.

Thanks for all the information and the links.
 

 

7 hours ago, Hardrada said:

Bcraig, the bit about "all STITCHING chisels" being diamond-shaped is wrong. Some chisels are European style and their holes are not diamonds but slits like these: \ \ \ \ \.

I just got me a pair of those from KS Blade. They are NOT cheap, though. (https://ksbladepunch.com/product/pricking-irons-black)**

Seiwa makes an economical version of the European style chisels, which you can get from Goodsjapan.com; I wasn't impressed with the reviews I watched of them, though. I've no problem swearing by the Seiwa diamond-shaped, but their European style just didn't rock my boat.

Part of the confusion with these items comes from diluting the definitions/boundaries of two different items that are used for stitching: i.e. PRICKING IRONS vs. stitching CHISELS. The exhibit Spyros posted above from Blanchard is a European style PRICKING IRON, whereas the one in the picture below is a Seiwa diamond CHISEL.

 

Note that even Goodsjapan.com is labeling the latter as a 'pricking iron' (AND as a chisel ). See? Even suppliers do it, adding to the confusion.

So, what's the difference then?

A pricking iron is designed to MARK where the stitching holes on the leather will go. The holes are actually made by piercing the leather with a stitching awl, whose blade is usually diamond-shaped. Pricking irons are NOT designed nor meant to pierce (punch) through the leather and make the holes –although I reckon it's possible to use them as punches if you strike them hard enough with a mallet and your leather is not too thick.

A stitching punch, on the other hand is designed to not just mark where the stitching holes will go but to make them as well. They are punches—built strong enough to pierce through thick layers of leather without breaking. So, you no longer need an awl to stitch. Chisels are now preferred by many leather workers because it speeds up the process and neats up the stitching. As mentioned above, you can have chisels in both diamond and European style. They even make round ones (https://ksbladepunch.com/product/round-dent-black), and, yes, for lacing too. Lacing punches, however, are not angled, but horizontally oriented, like so: – – – –.

In your specific case, I would recommend the Seiwa diamond chisels: https://www.goodsjapan.com/seiwa-diamond-leather-stitching-chisel-leathercraft-pricking-iron-tool-6x4mm/a-19162

I linked you to the 4 mm version, but they have them in other stitching measurements, such as 3 mm. It all depends on what you're making. See here: https://www.ianatkinson.net/leather/leatherguide.htm#stitching

_____________________________

**Again, you have a manufacturer adding to the confusion by labeling a punch a 'pricking iron'.

Thanks for the Information and the links.
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain these things to me .
I can see now that this can get confusing though as the width of the prongs can make a difference in the size of the hole and the spacing can vary depending whether it was measured from the center of the hole or the edge of the hole.
(I THINK that is correct !)

It is a little more complicated than the last holster I made ,I Made a Pancake holster for a Bersa Thunder 380 ACP and I used a Table fork (about 4 SPI)to mark the stitch holes then used a Finishing nail to open the holes and then sewed it with 346 thread using a single needle and a lazy man saddle stitch.
Turned out pretty good ,DWIGHT ,A Super nice guy on this forum helped me from start to finish with back and forth Messages.
He helped me tremendously with My Project.

Thanks Again
Craig

Edited July 14, 2020 by bcraig

[bcraig]

Once again I want to thank Everyone for your help in teaching me about the differences in Chisels and the links you have sent me.

[Matt S]

4 hours ago, Spyros said:

I am the last person to argue with this, people who work need to get paid a decent wage, and the whole planet needs to come down like a tonne of bricks on factories that don't take every possible measure to contain pollution.  Absolutely no argument there.

Now, about Blanchard, to me their irons look suspiciously simple to produce and their prices seem outrageous even with French wages and EU environmental regulations. But I will not argue with that either because I am not a metalworker, and someone will tell me that their grandpa inherited a Blanchard iron from his grandpa and it still works great today because it's made from special unobtainium.  Fine, I don't have the knowledge to argue.

However, I do know woodworking.  And when I see the price on this thing I know that someone is taking the piss.

https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/515613297/leather-stitching-clamp-verni-vergez?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=vergez+blanchard&ref=sr_gallery-1-14&frs=1    

This doesn't cost more than $30 whether you use a CNC in Vietnam or in Switzerland.

Ah but It's French. All that fois grois and vintage claret at the works canteen has to be paid for somehow... Remember this is the country that brought you such efficient and elegant tools as the SCART connector, the MAT49 SMG and the Citreon DS!  

[Spyros]

At least they're good in football hehehe

[SLP]

The Seiwa irons are made in Japan, not China.

[csosborne]

Hello,

My name is Daniel from C.S. OSBORNE & CO. I really appreciate the feed back on our photos versus the tools. Yes we are changing the game with our websites photos etc. We are working hard this year to improve our social media platform. We hope this does not have an impact on your views of C.S. OSBORNE history and tools.

Thank you

C.S. OSBORNE & CO