Where to get a spoke shave?

[Squilchuck]

I've looked on the market for spoke shaves to use in saddle making several times but only find dubious used ones on ebay or wood working shaves, which I guess are different with a straight blade? Do ones for leather have thin curved blades?  Where might I buy a good one or do you recommend two sizes?  -John

[Cattledude]

You might check with Bruce Johnson. He has vintage learher tools and is a good guy to do business with, honest and good service.

[jcuk]

Here is couple i found, the blades look like they need attention.

https://gandmtools.co.uk/?product=vintage-j-dixon-saddlers-adjustable-wooden-spokeshave-80212000

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154141607790?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=154141607790&targetid=1140014332942&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9050375&poi=&campaignid=12128875381&mkgroupid=119799614547&rlsatarget=pla-1140014332942&abcId=9300481&merchantid=101725488&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu9-rz5-c7wIVQuDtCh0ajwvzEAkYASABEgIlCvD_BwE

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

 

 

[Goldshot Ron]

In ebay, search for Atherton.  They may come up from time to time.  I use a no. 5 and no. 6.  The blades are usually well used.  It is a tool that I only use for shaping seats, and it is just another tool to have in your chest of tools.  I bought mine off of ebay.  Also, don't pay over $35-$40; they aren't really all that useful.

Ron

[jcuk]

This also maybe of interest, click on the link skin deep, might be a cheaper option.

https://www.hewitonline.com/Stanley_Spokeshave_Spare_Blade_p/tl-145.htm

Hope this helps

JCUK 

[Frodo]

They are called draw blades and can be found on amazon 

[Aven]

Squilchuck, I know that spoke shaves are used for shoe making and have unique designs.  I am totally unfamiliar with saddle making, so are you looking for a flat bottom, a round bottom or both? 

I stumbled across this from Peachy Tools.  I'm not advocating this tool, per se, but in the description they go over the modifications made to the spoke shave to make it worth almost $300 and those might be of interest to you.

https://www.peacheytools.com/shop/modified-151-spokeshave-for-leather-paring

[chuck123wapati]

22 hours ago, Squilchuck said:

I've looked on the market for spoke shaves to use in saddle making several times but only find dubious used ones on ebay or wood working shaves, which I guess are different with a straight blade? Do ones for leather have thin curved blades?  Where might I buy a good one or do you recommend two sizes?  -John

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/spokeshaves I have no idea really but i would think the only dif would be blade shape maybe from wood to leather but here is a place that sells them and different blade shapes.

[Squilchuck]

Are the shaves used for wood working the same as for leather working? At Lee Valley I see lots of shaves with a flat blade, but somehow looking at pictures or videos of saddle makers using them I got the impression the blade was curved? 

 

[oltoot]

All the notes prove the complexity of the topic. One easy way out is by using the tool simple little available from Tandy for injector razor blades and one handed use. A little filing can change shape of the opening for different uses. For me, actual draw gauges became collectibles as opposed to daily using tools.

[fredk]

12 minutes ago, Squilchuck said:

. . .  At Lee Valley I see lots of shaves with a flat blade, but somehow looking at pictures or videos of saddle makers using them I got the impression the blade was curved? 

 

Unfortunately, with the loss of certain skilled trades the different styles of spoke shaves have been lost. It took me many years to find just a few replacements for ones I had stolen.

There are / were three main types of spoke shave.

1. the common flat foot, straight blade type we see everywhere, strictly not a 'spoke' shave but simply a wood shave

2. a type with convex foot and convex blade, sometimes called a 'chair-makers shave' as its useful for shaving out the recess for your butt on a chair seat

3. a type with a concave foot and concave blade - the true wheel-wright's spoke shave, for making square edges round

Within these three main groups there used to be a very great range of sizes, eg the #1 now only available with a 2 to 3 inch blade use to be available from 1/2" to about 15", the #2 was available in different sizes and curvatures up to about a 12" blade as was #3

[bruce johnson]

What you are looking for are going to be commonly called "heel shaves". They do have a curved bottom and size range of 0-8 or 9. Exactly which ones to use are subject to discussion but commonly 3/5/6 seem to be used a little more. That said, even dyed in the wool saddlemakers who would use nothing else have mostly switched over to razor blade skivers. The heel shaves are getting harder to find, even harder with a decent blade, and take work to keep them really sharp. You hit a tack and spend an hour redoing the edge. Hit a tack with razor blade skiver and you swap blades and get back to work. 

     I stopped looking for them a couple years ago, they just weren't moving through. I batched up all I had and sold them in one lot at the Prescott show last year. 

[EdOdgers]

Here is a photo of the shaves, skivers and planes I use for saddle making.  I come from a carpentry and woodworking background so I've gleaned tools and techniques from those trades.  Descriptions starting at the top or 12:00 O-clock, and proceeding around clockwise.

-Stanley spoke-shave.  Commonly available at most good hardware or woodworking stores.  2 1/8" flat blade.  A very versatile tool that I use for groundseats (everywhere except the dish of the cantle) and leveling or thinning large pieces of leather.  Before I had a large splitter, this is how I thinned and evened fork covers, cantle backs and other saddle components.  This is my most used shave.  Planes and shaves work best for leather if the angle of the blade is very low, much lower than what is generally used for wood.  To modify this tool for leather, simply install the blade with the bevel facing down; that will reduce the angle.  This tool is easy to adjust and removing the blade for honing and sharpening is a snap.  It has to be very sharp to work satisfactorily because you are pushing the blade into the leather rather than slicing into it.

-Stanley spoke-shave with handles cut off.  I thought this would be very handy and usable in the dish of a cantle but it's applications are limited.  I don't use it often.

-Zona brand miniature spoke shaves intended for model making and hobbies.  These are incredibly handy little spoke shaves for saddle work.  Next to the Stanley above they are my most used.  They are very inexpensive at about $8.  Crude and simple.  The 7/8" flat blade is small enough that it works well in the dish of the cantle, particularly when used in arcs along the rim.  A bit tedious to remove, adjust and sharpen the blade but so handy that I've learned how to get along with them.  To sharpen, I mount the blade in a vise grip which I then use as an angle guide while honing.  Get some extra blades to swap out during use.  One of the Zona planes in the photo has a custom, higher quality blade that I made.  When these planes are sharp and adjusted, they are amazing.

-Bronze miniature woodworking planes.  These used to be available from Garret Wade and other woodworking supply houses but are no longer in stock.  Not sure where to get them.  Similar to the Zona above but one has a convex blade and the other a rounded shoe.  I use the one with the convex blade in the cantle dish while carving groundseats.

-Heel shave.  This is a vintage leather tool that was commonly used by saddle makers for carving groundseats when I was learning.  Not used by many today and for good reason.  Tough to sharpen and slow to set up.  This one has a radius that is too small to my liking.  I rarely use it now. 

-Kunz woodworking, convex spoke-shave.  Available at woodworking supply stores.  Nice tool but the radius is too small to work well for groundseats.   I don't use it much.

-Potato peeler leather skiver and pull type skiver.  These are very popular and commonly used.  I modified the "peeler" by installing a Sam Stag stud on the end for an extra handle.  Some saddlers swear by these but I swear at it.   There is no "shoe" or bottom guide to help gauge the depth of cut, consequently it is very easy to gouge out the leather deeper than intended.  Also, the end product is a series of ridges that requires sanding to even out.  These tools lack precision and I just don't feel I can get the surface as smooth and even as with spoke-shaves.  I also hate replacing the cheesy blades constantly which you have to do to avoid gouging and grabbing.  Can you tell I don't like these?  Yes I know many folks get along with them but not me.

Lie-Nielson Violin Makers, low angle block plane.  This is my pride and joy plane.  It has a bronze body and a high quality 7/8" blade that holds an edge well.  The blade angle is appropriately low for leather.  It's very easy to adjust and just the right size for saddle work.  A true joy to use.  This and a couple of my head-knives are my favorite tools.  It is very handy to true-up or adjust straight or arced cuts (think skirts).  Cuts crisp and clean and can take off the thinnest ribbon of leather.  Can't say enough about this little plane.

In conclusion, I strongly recommend a saddle maker's shop include a Stanley spoke-shave, a few Zona mini spoke shaves, and a small block plane such as the Lie-Nielson Violin makers plane.

 

[paloma]

https://tandyleather.com/collections/tools/products/super-skiver

[Squilchuck]

Thanks everyone for the great advice! Glad to hear from Bruce as I'd looked at his stock on line and was puzzled not to see any shaves when there are lots of other tools.  I'm an infrequent saddle maker (on my fifth) and have gotten by pretty well with a skife razor blade potato-peeler tool used one or two-handed and a cabinet scraper (a la Stohlman's book).  Never have figured out how to use the other T-shaped razor skiver that you pull as in the previous post - always gouges. I'm not real keen on sharpening blades.  I'll think about getting an inexpensive one to try. Ed gave lots to go on. -John

[jcuk]

Not if this might of use or just muddy the water.

https://www.blackmountainsleather.com/collections/tools/products/leather-edge-plane?variant=12551591854185

Hope this helps

JCUK

[Aven]

Those as the same planes that are flogged as musical instrument planes.  There's no reason they wouldn't work, unless it has a poorly heat treated blade. 

I can't tell what size they are and that can make a big difference with how comfortable they are to use and sharpening a small blade like that is tricky.  I have several that range from a few of inches long down to less than two inches long.  I find the little one painful to use with my older hands.

You don't have to use a spoke shave or a plane.  You could use a carving chisel like a sweep.  Whatever you chose to use, it comes down to the same thing.  Learning how to use the tool safely and correctly and learning how to keep it very sharp.

[Munday]

I use two of these styles in woodworking:

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/search.aspx?find=spoke+shave