Dog collar bling: spots or rivets?

[ButtonLady]

I thought only rivets were used to bling out dog collars (and maybe conchos with Chicago screws).  But... I'm seeing 2-prong rimmed rhinestone and cabochon spots, and metal spots used as well:

 

https://karmacollars.com/collections/designer-bling-custom-handmade-leather-dog-collars

Is one preferred over the other?  Is there a difference in canine comfort or collar functionality?  Bring on the bling! 

Edited March 19, 2021 by ButtonLady
Added link to dog collar website.

[ButtonLady]

And while I'm on the subject...

Do decorative spot and/or rivet patterns or templates exist?  I swear I saw a post about it once, but can't find it now.

[Retswerb]

I would think the two pronged spots would be much more likely to come off, especially if the dog scratches at the collar at all.

[ButtonLady]

1 hour ago, Retswerb said:

I would think the two pronged spots would be much more likely to come off, especially if the dog scratches at the collar at all.

I would think so, too but reviews are uniformly excellent for this company.  Prongs are set well and deep (and very neatly).  Conchos are set with either rivets or Chicago screws.  Judging from the descriptions, they use products from Standard Rivet.

Is a good, solid spot at least equal to a decorative rivet?  I've seen plenty of cheap rhinestone rivets —do they really hold better than a quality spot?  Not being argumentative... I honestly don't know.

Edited March 19, 2021 by ButtonLady
Forgot a word... (duh)

[ButtonLady]

Found a few more collars embellished with spots (via Etsy).  Thinner synthetic "Biothane" collars have 4-prong spots rather than 2-prong:

• Madison and Maude Luxury Handmade Pet Products
• Woofwear Collars (Crystal Chic)
• Luxury Collars by Moxie Collars

No one seems be complaining (?).  Now I'm wondering about horse tack...  Here's a Biothane set with 2-prong rhinestone spots:

https://www.twohorsetack.com/p-29-western-bridle-full-browband-made-from-beta-biothane-with-bling.aspx

Just how common is this?

Edited March 20, 2021 by ButtonLady
Ugh... another stupid mistake...

[ButtonLady]

Embellishment on this collar (for example) has no visible means of attachment:

http://dogmopolitan.com/?product=rn-design-cream-glass-cab-swarovski-crystal-dog-collar-leather-custom

No obvious stitching, either.  Is it common practice to attach spots to an outer collar layer, then glue it to an inner layer?  I can't think of any other way to achieve this look... although clearly I have no idea what I'm doing...

[Northmount]

Moved per request of @ButtonLady

 

[Retswerb]

Yes, if you look closely at some of the pics on that link you can see on the edge of the collar that it’s a thin outer layer attached to a thicker inner layer. Must be glued. 

[Klara]

After messing around with a few decorative rivets (and it is a mess, for lack of a rivet setter, but now I know why one needs it) I think that I just possibly might leave well-set rivets uncovered on the inside, meaning I'd use them on an unpadded collar. Maybe. 

Whereas I hate the idea of prongs that could bend in the wrong direction and poke my dog in the neck. No idea how high the risk really is, but my instincts say not to do it.

As for the templates: I make my own. Get some ideas from looking at internet pictures, take a piece of paper in the shape of my collar, draw the pattern on it till I like it, put the paper on the leather and poke through with a scratch awl where the rivets are to go. For the moment I don't make a more permanent version of the template, because I don't want to do the same pattern over and over.

[Alexis1234]

I use prong spots on collars I've made with a liner because I think it looks nicer. However,  on horse harness they will put spots on parts that aren't lined. The prongs are just bent over  and flattened really well.

[ButtonLady]

On 4/27/2021 at 3:11 AM, Klara said:

I think that I just possibly might leave well-set rivets uncovered on the inside, meaning I'd use them on an unpadded collar. Maybe. 

If the set is clean and smooth, and there's nothing exposed that would cause irritation... sure!  Rivet caps have a nice finish.

 

On 4/27/2021 at 6:48 AM, Alexis1234 said:

I use prong spots on collars I've made with a liner because I think it looks nicer. However,  on horse harness they will put spots on parts that aren't lined. The prongs are just bent over  and flattened really well.

I have learned (since starting this thread a year ago...) that 2-prong spots tend to have stronger and longer prongs (claws?) than 4-prong spots.  They are the only type that will penetrate collar-thick leather.  I have also (since then) tried setting metal and rhinestone spots:

You are spot (ha! ) on. 

I am by no means an expert, but at least I understand now what you're describing.

Machine setting forces prong points into the leather due to the shape of the die.  Hand setting creates prongs that "are just bent over and flattened really well" ...at least for 2-prongs.  4-prong spots are thinner and don't flatten as well when set by hand (in my oh-so-humble opinion) —they're designed more for fabric and thinner materials, and to be set with a die.

 

On 4/27/2021 at 3:11 AM, Klara said:

As for the templates: I make my own.

You are far more talented than I can ever hope to be...  Chris Mantz has some nice templates for spots and rhinestones.  Here's the website I couldn't remember before:

https://www.tacktemplates.com/online-store/Spot-Setting-Template-p81157850

Edited March 24, 2022 by ButtonLady
Made images smaller.

[fivewayswelshcobs]

On 4/27/2021 at 11:48 AM, Alexis1234 said:

I use prong spots on collars I've made with a liner because I think it looks nicer. However,  on horse harness they will put spots on parts that aren't lined. The prongs are just bent over  and flattened really well.

I would never put metal prongs against any animal so all my harness and collars etc is lined as is most of what I've seen . The only evidence of no lining is some which has been botched by an amateur or foreign made.

[ButtonLady]

4 hours ago, fivewayswelshcobs said:

I would never put metal prongs against any animal so all my harness and collars etc is lined as is most of what I've seen . The only evidence of no lining is some which has been botched by an amateur or foreign made.

Thank you for weighing in!  This is a fascinating subject —it's the reason I joined the forum.

Here's a dog collar from Karma Collars:

https://karmacollars.com/collections/designer-bling-custom-handmade-leather-dog-collars/products/zion

Prongs are exposed but points are buried in the leather... only possible with a die.  Machine-set, I assume —is there such a thing as a hand-set die that does this?  For those just learning (like me), here's an example of a machine die:

https://allstarco.com/en/setting-tools/6831-die-for-preset-rhinestones-bedazzler.html#/206-size-5mm

The raised center of the left (bottom) die pushes the prongs upward into the material.  I tried a machine die from a Chinese manufacturer (Dot-Gas), and all it did was flatten the prongs.  Really disappointing (sizing was off, too... different story).

So... on to horse tack.

I revisited the Biothane tack link from last year:

https://www.twohorsetack.com/p-29-bling-beta-biothane-western-bridle-with-full-browband.aspx

Rhinestone spots on the reins are exposed/points buried, but presumably the rest is lined —because there is visible stitching?  Is it possible to set spots in the top layer and then stitch THAT CLOSE to them?  Same thing with leather, too.

This example was clearly set after sewing because spots are covering the stitching... but presumably it's lined (?):

https://www.dreamtimecreations.com/page/bling-for-equestrian/

There's a LOT I don't know about this.

[suzelle]

I love all the bling things! Keep posting, you have my attention. I want to do some of this kind of work. Thank you for sharing. I have a few tools, but will be gathering more!

[ButtonLady]

3 hours ago, suzelle said:

I love all the bling things!

I know... right?  So... shiny...   It is a journey of discovery —glad to have you along.

[ButtonLady]

3 hours ago, ButtonLady said:

This example was clearly set after sewing because spots are covering the stitching... but presumably it's lined (?):

https://www.dreamtimecreations.com/page/bling-for-equestrian/

Missed the edit window:

It's possible these "spots" are actually rivets added after stitching.  Maybe even Chicago screws —can they be called "conchos" if they're that small?  Either way, I think the biggest issue would be punching a neat, well-placed pilot hole.

[fredk]

You can get domed head ready-rivets. I use them when I want the rivet to be more decorative

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181337022618?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D237808%26meid%3D25be4fdc25b342a9a51054d8f8cc16d9%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D12%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D173950563887%26itm%3D181337022618%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeed&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A18133702261825be4fdc25b342a9a51054d8f8cc16d9|enc%3AAQAGAAACEKyApwK%2FefsMJoQXTtwyzIPiLlyq8g8hwMr2qnuOcpGnokIWj1HbCI2Idd68n9p22JtdKPWIQg79oDp6mEui0M0pp3IFv3o8kp5RfVxnsUfyjOcu7IGfaqx5rZn7GpVXFWsLl8BMoTXYS8najzmMyazeMZTSCxqr9r6wfyRFHNhtjeEG5Jgc%2Bi2Yrc24kos5DdCWeybheiJDTwwmz0gfF9nqkv%2FY%2FF4mketFVw1yNPskQ7DMTFyBatbZnLNYF80NN7LOVrYQ4yZfMVO7mJ3c79P7hsEmw8iEuQ51DjDzpnmwRrvN7m7v6Wp3%2FU8StECi%2BgkWkvrPiyx%2BX4LVvm4pAngsFDuYgmiDFZBu7oGjau3H0ZvUS517Gs0%2FdBfBRG%2FizRu%2FVhf2HU2fp9Bc0VDUUR81wVrm6uJoJdTUpvLcn46D08BHg70Ezbdtjzrx%2F5CahOjfx2t9%2F7S3faSrkmQcwGfK9IwVwG6NSXMSlzY3JJ7hDduA6ZXtLxIOHRl%2BgnK0636QMylEeiml9Nic5hKsGrFlK0cX5TlUYMiIyNy%2BNON0lSy%2F0rR0cMlLm58hi5S0HsSSTHBtdxSkzxzH947VmX%2BAj3ErPEvJxgyvryjNYw%2B7yc4d0Uq1oDRScs4nHeb874I%2FtdPZMgVjOY8CMj%2Bj41j6iaS6Wpb%2BPMMrPMthE1QhxYf8WVl1rHOLopUWn68lsA%3D%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

[ButtonLady]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

You can get domed head ready-rivets. I use them when I want the rivet to be more decorative

Oooh... pretty!

Any problems with not crushing the domed end?

[fredk]

2 hours ago, ButtonLady said:

Oooh... pretty!

Any problems with not crushing the domed end?

No problems. One uses a rod/bar setter with a dome shape in the end. I use a bar one size larger than the rivet, eg for a 6mm rivet head I use a 7mm setter 

[suzelle]

Thank you Fred! I'll be getting some of these!

17 hours ago, fredk said:

No problems. One uses a rod/bar setter with a dome shape in the end. I use a bar one size larger than the rivet, eg for a 6mm rivet head I use a 7mm setter 

 

[Alexis1234]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:18 AM, fivewayswelshcobs said:

I would never put metal prongs against any animal so all my harness and collars etc is lined as is most of what I've seen . The only evidence of no lining is some which has been botched by an amateur or foreign made.

I do not do it that way...However,  on I've seen it done on work harness.

[ButtonLady]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:18 AM, fivewayswelshcobs said:

I would never put metal prongs against any animal...

If set properly with a good die, the prongs are well buried.  Aside from that, please note that the spots in this example are set with exceptional care (!) —the direction of the prongs is perfectly consistent:

The raised center of a machine die pushes the prongs upward into the material (leather, Biothane, etc.):

Prongs that are just flattened?  Absolute total agreement with you.