saddle stiching

[David380]

Hi all. I new here and trying to learn hand stiching. Im try to stich bible covers around  2oz goatskin outer cover and 2 or 3 oz liner.  I've watched a lot of YouTube videos about saddle stitching.  I bought 5mm pricking irons I need help with needle size and brand and tread size and type. I'm kinda lost here trying to learn can someone help me? Thank yall for any help I really appreciate it. David 

[YinTx]

Not sure if I can help, but here are some thoughts.  5mm is pretty big for 4 oz leather total.  3.38 mm or 8SPI would do ok, even 7 stitches per inch would do.  John James needles size 2 are what I tend to use.  they are cheap, you can get several sizes if you want to try them out.  .4mm thread would work well, 532 linen thread, and I think Ritza Tiger thread would be 0.6mm.

YinTx

[Hardrada]

Yup, 5 mm is more for holsters and the like; it'd look ungodly on a Bible.

[DJole]

Maybe this page, by Ian Atkinson of Leodis Leather in the UK, will help you out:
https://www.ianatkinson.net/leather/leatherguide.htm

Look for the "Stitch Sizes" subheading about 6/8 of the way down the webpage.

[zuludog]

5mm stitching chisels are a bit big for the thin leather that you are using; you could go down to about 3 or 3,5mm

For needles & thread you have a choice -

For most average leather work a good standard is John James Saddler's Harness Needles item code L3912 size 002 and 0,6mm diameter thread. That would be OK, and is about the thickest/bulkiest thread that would still look reasonable

However, for the thin leather you are using you could go to a smaller size of needles & thread, which would, as you might expect, produce a finer look. In that case choose John James Saddler's Harness Needles item code L3912 size 004 and thread that is about 0,45mm diameter

The size 002 & 0,6mm will do the job, but needles & thread are not that expensive, you could try both. Oh, a correction. Ritza 25 thread will be expensive if you can only buy it in large reels, but Rocky Mountain Leather Supply have smaller reels, plus other makes, such as their own Twist linen or polybraid threads, which are Yue Fung under their own name

And finally, John James needle sizing is a bit confusing. Make sure you get 002 or 004, and not 2/0 or 4/0, which will be too big

Search YouTube for 'how to make leather bible covers' and 'how to make leather book covers' there are several videos. You could also look at videos on making wallets, which will show how to use & sew thin leather

Edited April 20, 2021 by zuludog

[Rahere]

I don't think it's book covering he's after, but a pouch for it to go into. 

[David380]

Hi all. I am doing a bible rebind and total leather recover.  Should have made that more planer sorry.  Unfortunately where I live I do not have any stores that sell pricking irons and the web site I've order from only has 3mm, and 4m. Just looking for something that looks nice. Looking to start doing rebinds as a hobby a new the leathercraft  very interested in this hobby.  Can I get the needles and theard at like hobby lobby or do I have to order as well?  Thank yall for everything.  David 

[Nikos69]

I've been using 5mm and even 6mm chisels with 5oz (2mm) leather on a daily basis for years now. Not sure why everyone is knocking it. Spacing and thread size is the maker's decision for the look they want to achieve with a given product. 

 

 

[JohnnyLongpants]

In general, you want there to be a degree of proportion between the stitching and the project.  Having a very thin project with very large stitches can (emphasis CAN, not saying it WILL) look out of place.

For 5 mm stitching I use 0.8mm thread (or, in Maine Thread, 0.030").  I agree that this stitch spacing is pretty large.  I would minimally move to 4mm stitch spacing, at which point I would use 0.6mm thread and needles that were about a size 3, but could be 1 or 2.  I use Osborne harness needles mostly because they are so available.

 

-Johnny Longpants

Edited May 16, 2021 by JohnnyLongpants

[Spyros]

I don't know anything about book binding, I make bags.   But when it comes to saddle stitching I found that although it looks like there are a million options, in practical terms there is only one combination that works for me and I use it for everything: 0.6mm Ritza polyester flat thread with the smallest needle I can fit it through.   And it's the only combination that works because of these reasons:

- If the thread is round instead of flat I simply can't pierce it to lock it.  I just can't do it, not with my eyes and my fingers anyway.

- If the thread is not polyester I can't just burn it to finish a stitch, I have to make tiny little knots with glue etc.  Forget it, I don't always have the required access/room/visibility to fiddle with knots and glue where I'm stitching.  With polyester thread I burn the ends with a lighter, done.

- The thread has to be 0.6 because that is the thinnest flat polyester thread I can find.  Anything thicker and I struggle unnecessarily to pass it through the stitching holes, especially when I'm doubling up to finish a stitch or if I have to go back to correct an error.  I will use thicker thread when I start making safety equipment, which is probably never.  Ritza 0.6mm polyester is plenty strong for everything else, I add rivets if it's a high stress area.

- The needle also has to be as thin as possible, it makes life much easier for the same reasons as the thinner thread.   I bought the whole range of James Jones needles and I use the smallest one 99% of the time.

- The spacing of the holes is just an aesthetic decision, when I buy irons I look at their spacing range and I always choose the middle one.  And it's always been fine.  

Edited May 16, 2021 by Spyros

[Klara]

7 hours ago, Spyros said:

...

- If the thread is round instead of flat I simply can't pierce it to lock it.  I just can't do it, not with my eyes and my fingers anyway.

- If the thread is not polyester I can't just burn it to finish a stitch, I have to make tiny little knots with glue etc.  Forget it, I don't always have the required access/room/visibility to fiddle with knots and glue where I'm stitching.  With polyester thread I burn the ends with a lighter, done.

...

- The needle also has to be as thin as possible, it makes life much easier for the same reasons as the thinner thread.   I bought the whole range of James Jones needles and I use the smallest one 99% of the time.

...

The trick to piercing round thread is to untwist the bit you want to poke the needle into.

None of the books I've read and almost none of the videos I've seen suggests knots and glue at the end of stitching. But simply a few back stitches, which supposedly is enough for waxed linen thread.

Needles need to be big enough for the thread. And I find bigger ones easier on my fingers. Fortunately I make dog collars...

[Scootch]

David,  Bible binding is an interest of mine as well though I've yet to tackle one.  When I do, I plan on sewing the cover.  However many fine bibles are simply skived, folded and glued.  If you are new this might be a good option.  There's a lot to learn.  There's a bible binding book by Diego Caloca Jr.  His book teaches glueing without the stitch as well.

If I were going to sew I'd use .6 ritza25 thread and a 004 harness needle with 3.0 irons, mainly because that's what have. Just make sure the spacing from the edge to the stitch line is appropriate for the size iron.  You could also buy a small awl and spacing wheel and not use an iron.  

[jcuk]

Sometimes the reason for a longer stitch on lighter and maybe more delicate leathers is you have less chance on pulling your stitches through the leather and you may have many hours already invested in your work.

Hope this helps

JCUK

[Rahere]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:04 PM, jcuk said:

Sometimes the reason for a longer stitch on lighter and maybe more delicate leathers is you have less chance on pulling your stitches through the leather and you may have many hours already invested in your work.

Hope this helps

JCUK

It's not just pulling out, but through, connecting the stitching holes.

[Spyros]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:07 PM, Klara said:

None of the books I've read and almost none of the videos I've seen suggests knots and glue at the end of stitching. But simply a few back stitches, which supposedly is enough for waxed linen thread.

It probably is to be honest... the problem is we never really how it holds up until a few years later, so I'd rather not have to worry about it.  It's psychological :D

[Rahere]

One thing to note is that in the heyday of 18th and 19th century binding, the quires were often stitched to very substantial threads, requiring the "humps" often found on those spines.

[chuck123wapati]

On 4/19/2021 at 10:06 PM, David380 said:

Hi all. I new here and trying to learn hand stiching. Im try to stich bible covers around  2oz goatskin outer cover and 2 or 3 oz liner.  I've watched a lot of YouTube videos about saddle stitching.  I bought 5mm pricking irons I need help with needle size and brand and tread size and type. I'm kinda lost here trying to learn can someone help me? Thank yall for any help I really appreciate it. David 

free ebooks on this tandy site. "The art of hand sewing leather"  will help you alot.   https://www.leathercraftlibrary.com/category/79/ebooks?pagenum=1 

[sbrownn]

On 5/15/2021 at 9:05 PM, Spyros said:

I don't know anything about book binding, I make bags.   But when it comes to saddle stitching I found that although it looks like there are a million options, in practical terms there is only one combination that works for me and I use it for everything: 0.6mm Ritza polyester flat thread with the smallest needle I can fit it through.   And it's the only combination that works because of these reasons:

- If the thread is round instead of flat I simply can't pierce it to lock it.  I just can't do it, not with my eyes and my fingers anyway.

- If the thread is not polyester I can't just burn it to finish a stitch, I have to make tiny little knots with glue etc.  Forget it, I don't always have the required access/room/visibility to fiddle with knots and glue where I'm stitching.  With polyester thread I burn the ends with a lighter, done.

- The thread has to be 0.6 because that is the thinnest flat polyester thread I can find.  Anything thicker and I struggle unnecessarily to pass it through the stitching holes, especially when I'm doubling up to finish a stitch or if I have to go back to correct an error.  I will use thicker thread when I start making safety equipment, which is probably never.  Ritza 0.6mm polyester is plenty strong for everything else, I add rivets if it's a high stress area.

- The needle also has to be as thin as possible, it makes life much easier for the same reasons as the thinner thread.   I bought the whole range of James Jones needles and I use the smallest one 99% of the time.

- The spacing of the holes is just an aesthetic decision, when I buy irons I look at their spacing range and I always choose the middle one.  And it's always been fine.  

Totally agree.