Etsy update, prohibited items

[chuck123wapati]

6 minutes ago, Rahere said:

I'm ex-military, at the end of contract when our world-class Special Forces bid for me. The gap they needed to fill had been created by the politicos ghosting the incumbent, I was as good as they thought, discovered what had happened, agreed with his thinking - as has the ultimate test, history - and quietly walked away. You'd think I support skilled weapons handling, not least because the only way we'll preserve peace is an ability to fight well.

However, that abstract philosophy fails to recognise two factors. Easily available firearms and a lack of compulsory continual training has demolished that theory. Your risk profile is serious in the US, wereas our disarming in the UK has virtually removed ours. Indeed, having knowingly accepted the supply of weapons to Lindsay Anderson's film If...., which may have been the meme which started the wave of school alienation massacres off, I can't entirely excuse myself, other than ignorance of the degree they were taken too. And that's why I take the other stand, not out of wokeness, but out of experience. Month by month you clock up another 9/11 massacre in head-count, yet you won't treat it with corresponding gravity. The legal provision, the Second Amendment, has been met by the existence of the National Guard. The ready availability of firearms is being used as a licence to kill by redneck police, just yesterday a case in Alabama concerned a couple of black students tortured after a copper who couldn't possibly see shouted "He's got a gun". They're suing, and have an excellent chance of winning. And it's this dark side which wins, under the precautionary principle, in my soul. Not all men are good, some are evil, some merely troubled, some morally disorientated. Letting them have access to firearms in any shape or form in any way makes you complicit. You don't require the separate storage of weapon, firing mechanism and ammunition, let alone on a different site: the home defence argument arises, which is hogwash on the proportionate use of force limitation. Someone stumbles into the wrong house because he's drunk, and is shot down as a result. Protestors on the street are threatened with lethal force because it was available. It doesn't hold water.

There may be good valid reasons to be able to defend myself. Let the Law decide on a presumption of safety. Because right now, the Islamic State's best recruiter is America.

I know this must hurt, but until you can reliably and trustworthily prove you can handle the weapons entrusted to you, you shouldn't have them available. 

I'm glad you don't live here. as most in the UK any real understanding of our Bill of  Rights is pretty much non existent. I think mainly because it was the British government that was the stimulus for it. Your opinion doesn't hurt a bit friend because it really means nothing. Yes people are evil and not having a weapon doesn't change that fact  as a world class special forces elite you probably understand full well it doesn't take a gun to be evil or to do evil to another person. But this is to far off topic and i wont talk about it anymore as it wont settle anything in the world. Good luck to you friend and please stay on topic so this thread isn't closed.

[Hardrada]

4 hours ago, kgg said:

I agree that the days of open carry have long passed but holsters are still a saleable item in Canada as you need to have one to properly contain your gun on any firing range.

kgg

That's good to know. Thanks.

[kgg]

1 minute ago, Hardrada said:

That's good to know. Thanks.

On a range (indoors or outdoors) you don't want to see someone carrying a handgun in their hand that maybe readied ((loaded and safety off) or someone stuffing a readied down their pants pocket (might discard and wind up with a DSO).

kgg

[sbrownn]

There are lots of different interpretations of the second amendment and requiring registration of gun sales at gun shows may help but I seriously doubt prohibiting the sale of holsters, belts and slings on Esty will do much more than inspire people to dig in their heels against anything that may reduce gun deaths in the U.S.

[chiefjason]

15 hours ago, Rahere said:

I'm ex-military, at the end of contract when our world-class Special Forces bid for me. The gap they needed to fill had been created by the politicos ghosting the incumbent, I was as good as they thought, discovered what had happened, agreed with his thinking - as has the ultimate test, history - and quietly walked away. You'd think I support skilled weapons handling, not least because the only way we'll preserve peace is an ability to fight well.

However, that abstract philosophy fails to recognise two factors. Easily available firearms and a lack of compulsory continual training has demolished that theory. Your risk profile is serious in the US, wereas our disarming in the UK has virtually removed ours. Indeed, having knowingly accepted the supply of weapons to Lindsay Anderson's film If...., which may have been the meme which started the wave of school alienation massacres off, I can't entirely excuse myself, other than ignorance of the degree they were taken too. And that's why I take the other stand, not out of wokeness, but out of experience. Month by month you clock up another 9/11 massacre in head-count, yet you won't treat it with corresponding gravity. The legal provision, the Second Amendment, has been met by the existence of the National Guard. The ready availability of firearms is being used as a licence to kill by redneck police, just yesterday a case in Alabama concerned a couple of black students tortured after a copper who couldn't possibly see shouted "He's got a gun". They're suing, and have an excellent chance of winning. And it's this dark side which wins, under the precautionary principle, in my soul. Not all men are good, some are evil, some merely troubled, some morally disorientated. Letting them have access to firearms in any shape or form in any way makes you complicit. You don't require the separate storage of weapon, firing mechanism and ammunition, let alone on a different site: the home defence argument arises, which is hogwash on the proportionate use of force limitation. Someone stumbles into the wrong house because he's drunk, and is shot down as a result. Protestors on the street are threatened with lethal force because it was available. It doesn't hold water.

There may be good valid reasons to be able to defend myself. Let the Law decide on a presumption of safety. Because right now, the Islamic State's best recruiter is America.

I know this must hurt, but until you can reliably and trustworthily prove you can handle the weapons entrusted to you, you shouldn't have them available. 

 

Feel free to have murders by knives and impact weapons to sustain your moral superiority.  The rates that people murder each other tend to be rather stable.  While folks cry about the how.  Do you really think the people impacted care about the how?  Is it somehow more morally just in your eyes to be stabbed to death rather than to be shot?  How about the increases in rapes and sexual assaults that citizens can do nothing about to protect themselves?  The UK dramatically lowered gun homicides by attempting to remove them, but they did not remove homicides.  

And there is so much of that drivel that is nonsense it's hard to know where to start.  But let's start with this.  The Bill of Rights was mostly written by the Anti Federalists.  Those that wanted to explicitly give power to the citizens and enumerate certain rights because they did not trust Government to protect them.  So why would the 2A give the Gov a right to anything if it was written by people that did not trust the Gov?  Why would the 2A be the ONLY right in the Bill of Rights that does not apply to the individual citizen?  And why would the 2A be the only collective right instead of individual right?  It does empower the states to form militias.  And it also empowers the people to keep and bear arms.  It does not empower the federal gov in any way, shape, or form to do anything.  

And I'm getting no hits on a shooting in Alabama in the last couple days matching your description.  You got a link?  Or you just winging it?  

[chiefjason]

8 hours ago, sbrownn said:

There are lots of different interpretations of the second amendment and requiring registration of gun sales at gun shows may help but I seriously doubt prohibiting the sale of holsters, belts and slings on Esty will do much more than inspire people to dig in their heels against anything that may reduce gun deaths in the U.S.

 

As long as you realize that all, and I mean ALL sales of firearms at gun shows by a licensed FFL dealer HAVE to go through the NICS background check and 4473 paperwork.  I know a guy that lost his business because he got audited after a gunshow and his A&D books were not up to day on Tuesday after the show.  He was able to account for all the guns.  Just didn't have it all written down when the ATF asked to see it and he lost his business because of it.  

 

If you are talking about sales not going through NICS with a 4473 then you are ONLY talking about private sales.  And regulating what people do with their own property becomes a very different set of issues.  There are laws in place in most cases making it illegal to sell to a prohibited person.  Gun shows are not the free for all the media wants you to believe.  Most guns involved in crimes are stolen, not bought legally or bought privately at gun shows.  They are bought on the street.  

[JLSleather]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:34 AM, chiefjason said:

They wanted it at the end and after the word "compatible with." 

That's not JUST ebay.  Glock is pretty determined about their name.  You are not allowed to say "glock 17 holster", but you can say "MADE FOR glock 17" or "FITS glock 17".  They simply ask that you make it clear that the holster you provide is NOT A GLOCK PRODUCT.  Personally, I don't blame them.  I've seen SO many holsters that were JUNK.. I wouldnt want somebody thinking I made that, and thereby thinking they shouldnt buy MY products because they might get THAT same type of JUNK.

If you sell holsters and call them "glock xx holster"... assume that they just haven't got around to you YET.  Glock has A LOT of lawyers.

[Rahere]

On 6/19/2021 at 10:13 AM, chiefjason said:

 

Feel free to have murders by knives and impact weapons to sustain your moral superiority.  The rates that people murder each other tend to be rather stable.  While folks cry about the how.  Do you really think the people impacted care about the how?  Is it somehow more morally just in your eyes to be stabbed to death rather than to be shot?  How about the increases in rapes and sexual assaults that citizens can do nothing about to protect themselves?  The UK dramatically lowered gun homicides by attempting to remove them, but they did not remove homicides.  

And there is so much of that drivel that is nonsense it's hard to know where to start.  But let's start with this.  The Bill of Rights was mostly written by the Anti Federalists.  Those that wanted to explicitly give power to the citizens and enumerate certain rights because they did not trust Government to protect them.  So why would the 2A give the Gov a right to anything if it was written by people that did not trust the Gov?  Why would the 2A be the ONLY right in the Bill of Rights that does not apply to the individual citizen?  And why would the 2A be the only collective right instead of individual right?  It does empower the states to form militias.  And it also empowers the people to keep and bear arms.  It does not empower the federal gov in any way, shape, or form to do anything.  

And I'm getting no hits on a shooting in Alabama in the last couple days matching your description.  You got a link?  Or you just winging it?  

This isn't a moral superiority claim, just one of common humanity. I'm not using my heavy hammer on this - yet. I have one, the heaviest known to man. Doesn't 40 000 dead a year even begin to touch you? Your interpretation of rights is so unbelievably selfish, only you have rights, nobody else does. They have a human right to life, not to be casually gunned down by carelessness or worse excused as an accident. As part of my military training (you don't have ambulances five minutes away where we go) I'm trained in dealing with gunshot wounds. They're far worse than knife wounds, because the percussive deflagration expands into the body. It's not just the slug. I carry two knife wounds, they're just scars.  No , I didn't keep the log, but I wasn't winging it. You couldn't find it because it's become utterly commonplace, and you can't even see how evil that is. You claim community, but it's a fairly primitive level of tribalism, in reality.

When the UK decided we didn't need weapons, the only realistic target being ourselves, it was almost completely voluntary. Yes, we passed a law, but it was never questioned. I was sorry to lose the means to keep my skills up, but there we go. I can't square that with the consequences, life's about improving the world, not leaving a million grieving on top of the dead and injured.

If you don't trust the Government, vote in one you can trust. In hard reality, it's difficult to trust the gun-toting community after the shameful abuse of democracy that happened earlier this year, and continuously since. It's reduced that argument to claptrap. Do you really mean that power in the US comes from the barrel of a gun? If so, you don't deserve to be worldvleaders.

The Etsy line is International, and should serve as a message that in this, you're not the world leaders you should be. They're recognising that careful storage is a safety benefit, but you don't begin to understand what that means. I follow the LockPickingLawyer on YouTube, he's forever opening gun cases with tableforks and the like. Cases which can be opened by curious adolescents lacking the maturity to understand  the lethality of what can and too often does follow.

[Rahere]

On 6/19/2021 at 10:19 AM, chiefjason said:

 

As long as you realize that all, and I mean ALL sales of firearms at gun shows by a licensed FFL dealer HAVE to go through the NICS background check and 4473 paperwork.  I know a guy that lost his business because he got audited after a gunshow and his A&D books were not up to day on Tuesday after the show.  He was able to account for all the guns.  Just didn't have it all written down when the ATF asked to see it and he lost his business because of it.  

 

If you are talking about sales not going through NICS with a 4473 then you are ONLY talking about private sales.  And regulating what people do with their own property becomes a very different set of issues.  There are laws in place in most cases making it illegal to sell to a prohibited person.  Gun shows are not the free for all the media wants you to believe.  Most guns involved in crimes are stolen, not bought legally or bought privately at gun shows.  They are bought on the street.  

If you didn't have them, they'd not get stolen. Most firearms in criminal hands in the UK are smuggled these days, and the presence is a rapid escalatory factor in policing tactics, which is shorthand for they'll likely call snipers in, to avoid risks to themselves and others. If you know having one is utterly and completely illegal, then not getting rid of it is in and of itself tantamount to suicide. These are NOT toys, and the days of the Wild West long behind you.

[chuck123wapati]

4 hours ago, Rahere said:

This isn't a moral superiority claim, just one of common humanity. I'm not using my heavy hammer on this - yet. I have one, the heaviest known to man. Doesn't 40 000 dead a year even begin to touch you? Your interpretation of rights is so unbelievably selfish, only you have rights, nobody else does. They have a human right to life, not to be casually gunned down by carelessness or worse excused as an accident. As part of my military training (you don't have ambulances five minutes away where we go) I'm trained in dealing with gunshot wounds. They're far worse than knife wounds, because the percussive deflagration expands into the body. It's not just the slug. I carry two knife wounds, they're just scars.  No , I didn't keep the log, but I wasn't winging it. You couldn't find it because it's become utterly commonplace, and you can't even see how evil that is. You claim community, but it's a fairly primitive level of tribalism, in reality.

When the UK decided we didn't need weapons, the only realistic target being ourselves, it was almost completely voluntary. Yes, we passed a law, but it was never questioned. I was sorry to lose the means to keep my skills up, but there we go. I can't square that with the consequences, life's about improving the world, not leaving a million grieving on top of the dead and injured.

If you don't trust the Government, vote in one you can trust. In hard reality, it's difficult to trust the gun-toting community after the shameful abuse of democracy that happened earlier this year, and continuously since. It's reduced that argument to claptrap. Do you really mean that power in the US comes from the barrel of a gun? If so, you don't deserve to be worldvleaders.

The Etsy line is International, and should serve as a message that in this, you're not the world leaders you should be. They're recognising that careful storage is a safety benefit, but you don't begin to understand what that means. I follow the LockPickingLawyer on YouTube, he's forever opening gun cases with tableforks and the like. Cases which can be opened by curious adolescents lacking the maturity to understand  the lethality of what can and too often does follow.

LMFAO common humanity talk coming from an ex soldier of a country that throughout history has subjugated almost every other country on the planet by force and firearm, pretty hypocritical of you to even try and tout how your country has saved lives. Sorry pal we all understand why you and your politicians would want the lowly citizen to be unarmed. 

[chiefjason]

6 hours ago, Rahere said:

This isn't a moral superiority claim, just one of common humanity. I'm not using my heavy hammer on this - yet. I have one, the heaviest known to man. Doesn't 40 000 dead a year even begin to touch you? Your interpretation of rights is so unbelievably selfish, only you have rights, nobody else does. They have a human right to life, not to be casually gunned down by carelessness or worse excused as an accident. As part of my military training (you don't have ambulances five minutes away where we go) I'm trained in dealing with gunshot wounds. They're far worse than knife wounds, because the percussive deflagration expands into the body. It's not just the slug. I carry two knife wounds, they're just scars.  No , I didn't keep the log, but I wasn't winging it. You couldn't find it because it's become utterly commonplace, and you can't even see how evil that is. You claim community, but it's a fairly primitive level of tribalism, in reality.

When the UK decided we didn't need weapons, the only realistic target being ourselves, it was almost completely voluntary. Yes, we passed a law, but it was never questioned. I was sorry to lose the means to keep my skills up, but there we go. I can't square that with the consequences, life's about improving the world, not leaving a million grieving on top of the dead and injured.

If you don't trust the Government, vote in one you can trust. In hard reality, it's difficult to trust the gun-toting community after the shameful abuse of democracy that happened earlier this year, and continuously since. It's reduced that argument to claptrap. Do you really mean that power in the US comes from the barrel of a gun? If so, you don't deserve to be worldvleaders.

The Etsy line is International, and should serve as a message that in this, you're not the world leaders you should be. They're recognising that careful storage is a safety benefit, but you don't begin to understand what that means. I follow the LockPickingLawyer on YouTube, he's forever opening gun cases with tableforks and the like. Cases which can be opened by curious adolescents lacking the maturity to understand  the lethality of what can and too often does follow.

 

I'm selfish?  I should be glad the world has people willing to meddle in the affairs of others to keep them safe, right?  To paraphrase an Englishman, there is no tyranny greater than that done to you for your own good.  And I could make quite an argument that most of that gun violence is perpetrated in areas that are controlled by people who have effectively disarmed their citizens.  

Abuse of democracy?  That's laughable after calling riots peaceful protests all summer.  And now it's coming to light the FBI was involved in what happened on Jan 6th, which probably explains why large numbers of those folks were allowed in to the capital.  Assuming that's probably what you are talking about.  Would hate to allow both sides of the political spectrum to have equal rights.  Can't have that can we?  

There are a handful of western countries where disarming has gone bad more slowly for the populace.  Then again, you brits are starting to jail people for their opinions and let rapists walk free with no consequence so maybe that's changing for you.  But there are lots of countries where disarming the populace has led to more death by orders of magnitude.  And the political ideologies that require disarmament tend to always be drawn to that type of mass violence to force their position on those that don't want it.   

Guns are great equalizers.  Where are you going to turn when you can't vote in a Gov you want?  Why does a vote even matter if there are no consequences for ignoring it?  At some point, it actually is a bulwark to tyranny.  And it's a better bulwark than harsh words, which is all the disarmed have.  I'll take my chance with any dangers associated with gun ownership.  Because I know the dangers associated with being disarmed can be exponentially worse.  

 

Freedom does not equate safety.  There is a danger to it.  And clearly that danger isn't for everyone.  

[Frodo]

Allow me to interject and lay to bed the incorrect assumption that Background checks are not happening at gun shows or that you can buy a gun online 

First,  On line gun sales. You CAN order a gun online, It will NOT be sent to your house or place of business. It will be sent to an FFL holder in your community.  When the gun arrives, you fill out the proper paper work, under go a back ground check  before you touch the gun.  If you pass you may take possession of the gun

Secondly,  gun show gun sales.  Every gun that is sold by the venders at the gun show goes through a background check. NO EXCEPTIONS

Thirdly. private sales. You are allowed to sell a gun to another person with out a back ground check . 

This is how a private gun sale happens

You and Joe are sitting in Joes garage watching the game, joe  shows you a nice gun. You like it and offer Joe X amount of dollars. joe excepts the bid and hands you the gun.  Done deal, 

NOW, please tell me. HOW would you possibly enforce a back ground check on that gun sale?

No one was in the garage except the 2 men. So any LAW, that regulates a private sale is a law that is non-enforceable 

Another  sale

This is at a gun show

You and joe are at in  gun show parking lot and harry walks by with a really sweet Ar 15,  He says it is for sale.

Joe asks how much. harry tells him. Joe buys the gun.. This is a LEGAL private sale

Tell me HOW a private sale can be regulated?  it can't, it is impossible

Another gun sale, the news paper classified section

again. private sale

The only law in private sales is you can not buy a gun from someone that resides in another state

So in order to follow that law i ask for a state issued id. 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Frodo

[Kwaaked]

I can also point out that in Texas in '85, '86 and 88 I was required by the state to take gun safety courses as a mandatory class (I should have taken it once, but I moved to three different schools...and all required I take the course to the county and state standard).  My husband went through them in 9th grade in Tennessee about '83.

When I took mine, I had shot a gun absolutely zero times.  My grandfather made me wait until I was 12, 2 gun safety courses and the ability to tell you what caliber a gun was before I could shoot it (although he was pretty strict).  Courses were available in school as an optional thing until the mid 90s where I was.

When I was 40, I got a hunting license...and I don't even use a gun.  The state of Tennessee requires you to show proof of a gun safety class if you were born after Jan. 1, 1969...since I was and I wasn't going to bother finding 30 year old school records, I retook it.  Most people in the US that use guns have had some form of safety class, be it to hunt, mandatory in school or for a conceal and carry permit.

[fredk]

On etsy

1. its a privately owned on-line shopping place. They can put in place any rules they like

2. Like so many other bricks n mortar and on-line places the wimps and idiots set the rules

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, Rahere said:

If you didn't have them, they'd not get stolen. Most firearms in criminal hands in the UK are smuggled these days, and the presence is a rapid escalatory factor in policing tactics, which is shorthand for they'll likely call snipers in, to avoid risks to themselves and others. If you know having one is utterly and completely illegal, then not getting rid of it is in and of itself tantamount to suicide. These are NOT toys, and the days of the Wild West long behind you.

i think after seeing all the answers to your questions you can easily understand how much you don't know about our gun laws and almost every thing you stated are simply talking points for the lies the media is feeding you folks on the side of the pond. we wont even go into the facts associated with the majority of mass shooting and the knowledge the law had before hand. There has been more than one instance of a government sacrificing a few lives in order to push a political agenda but of course someone in the know as you are already understand that i'm sure. 

[chuck123wapati]

3 minutes ago, fredk said:

On etsy

1. its a privately owned on-line shopping place. They can put in place any rules they like

2. Like so many other bricks n mortar and on-line places the wimps and idiots set the rules

exactly and why a person has the same right to use or not. i don't knock them their rights are the same as mine.

[Frodo]

37 minutes ago, fredk said:

On etsy

1. its a privately owned on-line shopping place. They can put in place any rules they like

2. Like so many other bricks n mortar and on-line places the wimps and idiots set the rules

TRUE,  Their house their rules

If you do not like the rules go to another venue. 

You can always try and outsmart the Bots

run an add on etsy that says

4 sale, large sheath for a Smith and Wesson 

Belt pouch for a python LOL LOL  

[Hardrada]

20 minutes ago, Frodo said:

You can always try and outsmart the Bots

Haha! Yeah, when I discussed this issue with a friend of mine he mentioned some of the descriptions some sellers are using to describe their gun paraphernalia on etsy. I won't mention them here so as to not give them away, but they were, shall we say, entertaining.

I decided against blockade running, though. I don't like to game the system nor live in tension I might be caught; and I also wonder if using the 'wrong' keywords also makes the items harder to find—unless you have a following, you'd want your stuff to be easily listed and found.

[Rahere]

I understand the need of a frontier culture breaking free from a Germanic dictatorship to create laws underwriting self-defence. But  you don't answer the question of selfishness we did, in the wake of the Dunblane massacre. You're not a frontier culture any more, facing serious threats from foreign forces on your soil. The "whereas" clauses explaining the context of the law no longer apply. Instead, you tell me "it's our culture". If I were to believe that, I'd have some extremely caustic comments about a culture willing to put up with chancing another Sandy Hook. Thankfully that's not universally true, but the old saying that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing certainly applies. The result is in the statistics, your nation competes with third-world States riddled by gang warfare. How sad to think that we cannot distinguish between good blokes under a delusion and criminals. You may go into it with the best will in the world, but the Good Book tells us to focus on our fruits, the actual product of our actions. Pious platitudes aren't enough, by your deeds you are known, be they deeds of commission or deeds of omission.

[Frodo]

You are correct, We are no longer a frontier country. that statement,  although true has nothing at all to do with the reason we are an armed society.

The 2nd Amendment made it into the Bill of Rights for a reason. Many Americans sincerely believed (and the basic idea precedes the Constitution by centuries) that the citizenry has the fundamental right to oppose a despotic government, by force of arms if necessary. To pretend otherwise--and that gun rights are merely a right to engage in recreation--is to buy into the cult of all-powerful, all-righteous state...an utterly dangerous and un-American notion.

 

[chuck123wapati]

55 minutes ago, Rahere said:

I understand the need of a frontier culture breaking free from a Germanic dictatorship to create laws underwriting self-defence. But  you don't answer the question of selfishness we did, in the wake of the Dunblane massacre. You're not a frontier culture any more, facing serious threats from foreign forces on your soil. The "whereas" clauses explaining the context of the law no longer apply. Instead, you tell me "it's our culture". If I were to believe that, I'd have some extremely caustic comments about a culture willing to put up with chancing another Sandy Hook. Thankfully that's not universally true, but the old saying that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing certainly applies. The result is in the statistics, your nation competes with third-world States riddled by gang warfare. How sad to think that we cannot distinguish between good blokes under a delusion and criminals. You may go into it with the best will in the world, but the Good Book tells us to focus on our fruits, the actual product of our actions. Pious platitudes aren't enough, by your deeds you are known, be they deeds of commission or deeds of omission.

 i love when folks try to ignore the reality of history sorry but anything you want to say is irrelevant because you wont answer up to the injustices of your country.    i say again "from an ex soldier of a country that throughout history has subjugated almost every other country on the planet by force and firearm"

"it's our culture" NO ITS OUR BILL OF RIGHTS. You have no idea what threats lay in the future and that sir is a fact.

[Rahere]

7 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 i love when folks try to ignore the reality of history sorry but anything you want to say is irrelevant because you wont answer up to the injustices of your country.    i say again "from an ex soldier of a country that throughout history has subjugated almost every other country on the planet by force and firearm"

"it's our culture" NO ITS OUR BILL OF RIGHTS. You have no idea what threats lay in the future and that sir is a fact.

OK, the big hammer then. Right now, Robert Schumann, the founder of the operation I went on not only to work in, but to complete, is up for Sainthood in the Church. We already have a Nobel Peace Prize in 2012, for the reintegration of Europe, which I led on and actually got to make happen, myself being detailed off the welcome the First Secretaries and Defence Attachés of the Eastern European States, the first morning of the first step into full accession into Europe, with the Western European Union. I later completed Gandhi's work, tying up the loose end he was working on when he was assassinated, not as a personal initiative, but because the Nation concerned came to me and asked me to help, so I did, making something new, exactly as you make something new when you take a knife to leather, with an idea in mind, experience to make it happen, and the resources to deliver to hand. But you know what? It was lined up for me on high, only an utter idiot could miss. As the office boss Javier Solana said, so unexpected was it, "How on earth did that happen?" This is why Rome's scaling it up further, because the credit goes to the bloke on the cloud.

The essence of it is that, as Henry Ford said, history is bunk. It's not where you were, but where you're going. Living in the past, wallowing in partly-fabulated mythology passing as history, just leaves you repeating the same old mistakes. I'm not a redcoat with a stock driving my head up into the sky, an ill-educated horny-handed son of a plough. They tell me I may gave set the top bar for brains. My reply is I was made that way because it was the only way a human could cope with the Boss, 'im Upstairs, however you know him. I'm the worthy child of my parents, my dad left us with hip implant technology, the ISO Standard for Pressure Vessels used in nuclear reactors, and the coordination which saved thousands of lives at the start of this pandemic, turning idle manufacturing plant to produce medical ventilators in just four days. After succeeding with the ISO standard, he did exactly what you would have done, made a masterpiece to celebrate, firing up his forge and crafting the first Pressure Vessel Quality Advisory Board certification stamp. Mum was former SOE, a Resistance fighter in Belgium, who went on to work as PA to Krishna Mennon,  the Indian High Commissioner in London in 1946-7, during the Indian Independance talks. And that is why I have the authority to cite the Mahatma's reply when asked about Western Civilisation. He said it would be a good idea. Make it so.

What I did was nail Clausewitz' nonsense, that war is the continuation of policy by other means. Glib, certainly, but shortsighted. No war has gone on eternally. I'm actually an academic expert in the roots of the Enlightenment, and part of that is shaking out from the near-collapse of Europe in the wake of the Black Death. It's a lesson in power play I well understand as a former European Crisis Manager, the finance man in the CFSP State Department. I saved Albania in 1997, at the head of the team of economic experts who sorted the wreckage of the Ponzi scheme which wrecked their economy, and did the pathfinding for Malta's accession to Europe. Essentially, given all wars end in peace talks once they've exhausted their economies, why start? My own body, the Western European Union, was born from the team of Civil Servants sent in in the wake of the Allied Armies to sort that mess out in 1944. That turned into The Western European Defence Organisation, and spun NATO off.

So don't talk to me about future fears, please, you've over-egged the case. The UK's a generation since we disarmed our civil community, and is still producing the world's finest soldiers. Kids wandering around pretending to be a militia are just a joke, a sick one, admittedly, but none the less not to be taken seriously. I've spent 18 years as a top professional keeping the peace and have been personally recognised by the Heads of State, which is quite a story. I have the gongs. I'm fully certified both psychologically, by the Church of England, and Harley Street, as a seer medium, my weird having done its bit in full view of both the top medics and half the UK Government in 2015, accurately handling at four hours notice a major strategic issue, which from my side simply meant digging the study paper I'd started working on six months previously, knowing the question was coming my way. It may have caused the current fixation on geeks and misfits.

You may dismiss this as Mitty syndrome - I'd reply you're actually perpetrating Cassandra's Curse. These things don't just happen, people like me make them happen. What am I doing here? Because one essential prerequisite of having your head in the clouds is keeping your feet on the ground. As I demonstrated in the Mexican harness thread, I also spin and work in rope. And long may that continue.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Rahere

[PastorBob]

7 hours ago, Rahere said:

OK, the big hammer then. Right now, Robert Schumann, the founder of the operation I went on not only to work in, but to complete, is up for Sainthood in the Church. We already have a Nobel Peace Prize in 2012, for the reintegration of Europe, which I led on and actually got to make happen, myself being detailed off the welcome the First Secretaries and Defence Attachés of the Eastern European States, the first morning of the first step into full accession into Europe, with the Western European Union. I later completed Gandhi's work, tying up the loose end he was working on when he was assassinated, not as a personal initiative, but because the Nation concerned came to me and asked me to help, so I did, making something new, exactly as you make something new when you take a knife to leather, with an idea in mind, experience to make it happen, and the resources to deliver to hand. But you know what? It was lined up for me on high, only an utter idiot could miss. As the office boss Javier Solana said, so unexpected was it, "How on earth did that happen?" This is why Rome's scaling it up further, because the credit goes to the bloke on the cloud.

The essence of it is that, as Henry Ford said, history is bunk. It's not where you were, but where you're going. Living in the past, wallowing in partly-fabulated mythology passing as history, just leaves you repeating the same old mistakes. I'm not a redcoat with a stock driving my head up into the sky, an ill-educated horny-handed son of a plough. They tell me I may gave set the top bar for brains. My reply is I was made that way because it was the only way a human could cope with the Boss, 'im Upstairs, however you know him. I'm the worthy child of my parents, my dad left us with hip implant technology, the ISO Standard for Pressure Vessels used in nuclear reactors, and the coordination which saved thousands of lives at the start of this pandemic, turning idle manufacturing plant to produce medical ventilators in just four days. After succeeding with the ISO standard, he did exactly what you would have done, made a masterpiece to celebrate, firing up his forge and crafting the first Pressure Vessel Quality Advisory Board certification stamp. Mum was former SOE, a Resistance fighter in Belgium, who went on to work as PA to Krishna Mennon,  the Indian High Commissioner in London in 1946-7, during the Indian Independance talks. And that is why I have the authority to cite the Mahatma's reply when asked about Western Civilisation. He said it would be a good idea. Make it so.

What I did was nail Clausewitz' nonsense, that war is the continuation of policy by other means. Glib, certainly, but shortsighted. No war has gone on eternally. I'm actually an academic expert in the roots of the Enlightenment, and part of that is shaking out from the near-collapse of Europe in the wake of the Black Death. It's a lesson in power play I well understand as a former European Crisis Manager, the finance man in the CFSP State Department. I saved Albania in 1997, at the head of the team of economic experts who sorted the wreckage of the Ponzi scheme which wrecked their economy, and did the pathfinding for Malta's accession to Europe. Essentially, given all wars end in peace talks once they've exhausted their economies, why start? My own body, the Western European Union, was born from the team of Civil Servants sent in in the wake of the Allied Armies to sort that mess out in 1944. That turned into The Western European Defence Organisation, and spun NATO off.

So don't talk to me about future fears, please, you've over-egged the case. The UK's a generation since we disarmed our civil community, and is still producing the world's finest soldiers. Kids wandering around pretending to be a militia are just a joke, a sick one, admittedly, but none the less not to be taken seriously. I've spent 18 years as a top professional keeping the peace and have been personally recognised by the Heads of State, which is quite a story. I have the gongs. I'm fully certified both psychologically, by the Church of England, and Harley Street, as a seer medium, my weird having done its bit in full view of both the top medics and half the UK Government in 2015, accurately handling at four hours notice a major strategic issue, which from my side simply meant digging the study paper I'd started working on six months previously, knowing the question was coming my way. It may have caused the current fixation on geeks and misfits.

You may dismiss this as Mitty syndrome - I'd reply you're actually perpetrating Cassandra's Curse. These things don't just happen, people like me make them happen. What am I doing here? Because one essential prerequisite of having your head in the clouds is keeping your feet on the ground. As I demonstrated in the Mexican harness thread, I also spin and work in rope. And long may that continue.

I just want to make pretty leather items and from time to time sell them on Etsy.

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, Rahere said:

OK, the big hammer then. Right now, Robert Schumann, the founder of the operation I went on not only to work in, but to complete, is up for Sainthood in the Church. We already have a Nobel Peace Prize in 2012, for the reintegration of Europe, which I led on and actually got to make happen, myself being detailed off the welcome the First Secretaries and Defence Attachés of the Eastern European States, the first morning of the first step into full accession into Europe, with the Western European Union. I later completed Gandhi's work, tying up the loose end he was working on when he was assassinated, not as a personal initiative, but because the Nation concerned came to me and asked me to help, so I did, making something new, exactly as you make something new when you take a knife to leather, with an idea in mind, experience to make it happen, and the resources to deliver to hand. But you know what? It was lined up for me on high, only an utter idiot could miss. As the office boss Javier Solana said, so unexpected was it, "How on earth did that happen?" This is why Rome's scaling it up further, because the credit goes to the bloke on the cloud.

The essence of it is that, as Henry Ford said, history is bunk. It's not where you were, but where you're going. Living in the past, wallowing in partly-fabulated mythology passing as history, just leaves you repeating the same old mistakes. I'm not a redcoat with a stock driving my head up into the sky, an ill-educated horny-handed son of a plough. They tell me I may gave set the top bar for brains. My reply is I was made that way because it was the only way a human could cope with the Boss, 'im Upstairs, however you know him. I'm the worthy child of my parents, my dad left us with hip implant technology, the ISO Standard for Pressure Vessels used in nuclear reactors, and the coordination which saved thousands of lives at the start of this pandemic, turning idle manufacturing plant to produce medical ventilators in just four days. After succeeding with the ISO standard, he did exactly what you would have done, made a masterpiece to celebrate, firing up his forge and crafting the first Pressure Vessel Quality Advisory Board certification stamp. Mum was former SOE, a Resistance fighter in Belgium, who went on to work as PA to Krishna Mennon,  the Indian High Commissioner in London in 1946-7, during the Indian Independance talks. And that is why I have the authority to cite the Mahatma's reply when asked about Western Civilisation. He said it would be a good idea. Make it so.

What I did was nail Clausewitz' nonsense, that war is the continuation of policy by other means. Glib, certainly, but shortsighted. No war has gone on eternally. I'm actually an academic expert in the roots of the Enlightenment, and part of that is shaking out from the near-collapse of Europe in the wake of the Black Death. It's a lesson in power play I well understand as a former European Crisis Manager, the finance man in the CFSP State Department. I saved Albania in 1997, at the head of the team of economic experts who sorted the wreckage of the Ponzi scheme which wrecked their economy, and did the pathfinding for Malta's accession to Europe. Essentially, given all wars end in peace talks once they've exhausted their economies, why start? My own body, the Western European Union, was born from the team of Civil Servants sent in in the wake of the Allied Armies to sort that mess out in 1944. That turned into The Western European Defence Organisation, and spun NATO off.

So don't talk to me about future fears, please, you've over-egged the case. The UK's a generation since we disarmed our civil community, and is still producing the world's finest soldiers. Kids wandering around pretending to be a militia are just a joke, a sick one, admittedly, but none the less not to be taken seriously. I've spent 18 years as a top professional keeping the peace and have been personally recognised by the Heads of State, which is quite a story. I have the gongs. I'm fully certified both psychologically, by the Church of England, and Harley Street, as a seer medium, my weird having done its bit in full view of both the top medics and half the UK Government in 2015, accurately handling at four hours notice a major strategic issue, which from my side simply meant digging the study paper I'd started working on six months previously, knowing the question was coming my way. It may have caused the current fixation on geeks and misfits.

You may dismiss this as Mitty syndrome - I'd reply you're actually perpetrating Cassandra's Curse. These things don't just happen, people like me make them happen. What am I doing here? Because one essential prerequisite of having your head in the clouds is keeping your feet on the ground. As I demonstrated in the Mexican harness thread, I also spin and work in rope. And long may that continue.

LMAO  what a bs story you can tell. sorry i didn't read it.    NO ITS OUR BILL OF RIGHTS.

Edited June 21, 2021 by chuck123wapati

[Frodo]

2 hours ago, PastorBob said:

I just want to make pretty leather items and from time to time sell them on Etsy.

As long as the buyer likes it i do not care if it is pretty or not

I have been asked to make some things I thought were hideous .  and others loved

These X-mass doo dads come to mind