Etsy update, prohibited items

[chiefjason]

8 hours ago, sbrownn said:

There are lots of different interpretations of the second amendment and requiring registration of gun sales at gun shows may help but I seriously doubt prohibiting the sale of holsters, belts and slings on Esty will do much more than inspire people to dig in their heels against anything that may reduce gun deaths in the U.S.

 

As long as you realize that all, and I mean ALL sales of firearms at gun shows by a licensed FFL dealer HAVE to go through the NICS background check and 4473 paperwork.  I know a guy that lost his business because he got audited after a gunshow and his A&D books were not up to day on Tuesday after the show.  He was able to account for all the guns.  Just didn't have it all written down when the ATF asked to see it and he lost his business because of it.  

 

If you are talking about sales not going through NICS with a 4473 then you are ONLY talking about private sales.  And regulating what people do with their own property becomes a very different set of issues.  There are laws in place in most cases making it illegal to sell to a prohibited person.  Gun shows are not the free for all the media wants you to believe.  Most guns involved in crimes are stolen, not bought legally or bought privately at gun shows.  They are bought on the street.  

[JLSleather]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:34 AM, chiefjason said:

They wanted it at the end and after the word "compatible with." 

That's not JUST ebay.  Glock is pretty determined about their name.  You are not allowed to say "glock 17 holster", but you can say "MADE FOR glock 17" or "FITS glock 17".  They simply ask that you make it clear that the holster you provide is NOT A GLOCK PRODUCT.  Personally, I don't blame them.  I've seen SO many holsters that were JUNK.. I wouldnt want somebody thinking I made that, and thereby thinking they shouldnt buy MY products because they might get THAT same type of JUNK.

If you sell holsters and call them "glock xx holster"... assume that they just haven't got around to you YET.  Glock has A LOT of lawyers.

[Rahere]

On 6/19/2021 at 10:13 AM, chiefjason said:

 

Feel free to have murders by knives and impact weapons to sustain your moral superiority.  The rates that people murder each other tend to be rather stable.  While folks cry about the how.  Do you really think the people impacted care about the how?  Is it somehow more morally just in your eyes to be stabbed to death rather than to be shot?  How about the increases in rapes and sexual assaults that citizens can do nothing about to protect themselves?  The UK dramatically lowered gun homicides by attempting to remove them, but they did not remove homicides.  

And there is so much of that drivel that is nonsense it's hard to know where to start.  But let's start with this.  The Bill of Rights was mostly written by the Anti Federalists.  Those that wanted to explicitly give power to the citizens and enumerate certain rights because they did not trust Government to protect them.  So why would the 2A give the Gov a right to anything if it was written by people that did not trust the Gov?  Why would the 2A be the ONLY right in the Bill of Rights that does not apply to the individual citizen?  And why would the 2A be the only collective right instead of individual right?  It does empower the states to form militias.  And it also empowers the people to keep and bear arms.  It does not empower the federal gov in any way, shape, or form to do anything.  

And I'm getting no hits on a shooting in Alabama in the last couple days matching your description.  You got a link?  Or you just winging it?  

This isn't a moral superiority claim, just one of common humanity. I'm not using my heavy hammer on this - yet. I have one, the heaviest known to man. Doesn't 40 000 dead a year even begin to touch you? Your interpretation of rights is so unbelievably selfish, only you have rights, nobody else does. They have a human right to life, not to be casually gunned down by carelessness or worse excused as an accident. As part of my military training (you don't have ambulances five minutes away where we go) I'm trained in dealing with gunshot wounds. They're far worse than knife wounds, because the percussive deflagration expands into the body. It's not just the slug. I carry two knife wounds, they're just scars.  No , I didn't keep the log, but I wasn't winging it. You couldn't find it because it's become utterly commonplace, and you can't even see how evil that is. You claim community, but it's a fairly primitive level of tribalism, in reality.

When the UK decided we didn't need weapons, the only realistic target being ourselves, it was almost completely voluntary. Yes, we passed a law, but it was never questioned. I was sorry to lose the means to keep my skills up, but there we go. I can't square that with the consequences, life's about improving the world, not leaving a million grieving on top of the dead and injured.

If you don't trust the Government, vote in one you can trust. In hard reality, it's difficult to trust the gun-toting community after the shameful abuse of democracy that happened earlier this year, and continuously since. It's reduced that argument to claptrap. Do you really mean that power in the US comes from the barrel of a gun? If so, you don't deserve to be worldvleaders.

The Etsy line is International, and should serve as a message that in this, you're not the world leaders you should be. They're recognising that careful storage is a safety benefit, but you don't begin to understand what that means. I follow the LockPickingLawyer on YouTube, he's forever opening gun cases with tableforks and the like. Cases which can be opened by curious adolescents lacking the maturity to understand  the lethality of what can and too often does follow.

[Rahere]

On 6/19/2021 at 10:19 AM, chiefjason said:

 

As long as you realize that all, and I mean ALL sales of firearms at gun shows by a licensed FFL dealer HAVE to go through the NICS background check and 4473 paperwork.  I know a guy that lost his business because he got audited after a gunshow and his A&D books were not up to day on Tuesday after the show.  He was able to account for all the guns.  Just didn't have it all written down when the ATF asked to see it and he lost his business because of it.  

 

If you are talking about sales not going through NICS with a 4473 then you are ONLY talking about private sales.  And regulating what people do with their own property becomes a very different set of issues.  There are laws in place in most cases making it illegal to sell to a prohibited person.  Gun shows are not the free for all the media wants you to believe.  Most guns involved in crimes are stolen, not bought legally or bought privately at gun shows.  They are bought on the street.  

If you didn't have them, they'd not get stolen. Most firearms in criminal hands in the UK are smuggled these days, and the presence is a rapid escalatory factor in policing tactics, which is shorthand for they'll likely call snipers in, to avoid risks to themselves and others. If you know having one is utterly and completely illegal, then not getting rid of it is in and of itself tantamount to suicide. These are NOT toys, and the days of the Wild West long behind you.

[chuck123wapati]

4 hours ago, Rahere said:

This isn't a moral superiority claim, just one of common humanity. I'm not using my heavy hammer on this - yet. I have one, the heaviest known to man. Doesn't 40 000 dead a year even begin to touch you? Your interpretation of rights is so unbelievably selfish, only you have rights, nobody else does. They have a human right to life, not to be casually gunned down by carelessness or worse excused as an accident. As part of my military training (you don't have ambulances five minutes away where we go) I'm trained in dealing with gunshot wounds. They're far worse than knife wounds, because the percussive deflagration expands into the body. It's not just the slug. I carry two knife wounds, they're just scars.  No , I didn't keep the log, but I wasn't winging it. You couldn't find it because it's become utterly commonplace, and you can't even see how evil that is. You claim community, but it's a fairly primitive level of tribalism, in reality.

When the UK decided we didn't need weapons, the only realistic target being ourselves, it was almost completely voluntary. Yes, we passed a law, but it was never questioned. I was sorry to lose the means to keep my skills up, but there we go. I can't square that with the consequences, life's about improving the world, not leaving a million grieving on top of the dead and injured.

If you don't trust the Government, vote in one you can trust. In hard reality, it's difficult to trust the gun-toting community after the shameful abuse of democracy that happened earlier this year, and continuously since. It's reduced that argument to claptrap. Do you really mean that power in the US comes from the barrel of a gun? If so, you don't deserve to be worldvleaders.

The Etsy line is International, and should serve as a message that in this, you're not the world leaders you should be. They're recognising that careful storage is a safety benefit, but you don't begin to understand what that means. I follow the LockPickingLawyer on YouTube, he's forever opening gun cases with tableforks and the like. Cases which can be opened by curious adolescents lacking the maturity to understand  the lethality of what can and too often does follow.

LMFAO common humanity talk coming from an ex soldier of a country that throughout history has subjugated almost every other country on the planet by force and firearm, pretty hypocritical of you to even try and tout how your country has saved lives. Sorry pal we all understand why you and your politicians would want the lowly citizen to be unarmed. 

[chiefjason]

6 hours ago, Rahere said:

This isn't a moral superiority claim, just one of common humanity. I'm not using my heavy hammer on this - yet. I have one, the heaviest known to man. Doesn't 40 000 dead a year even begin to touch you? Your interpretation of rights is so unbelievably selfish, only you have rights, nobody else does. They have a human right to life, not to be casually gunned down by carelessness or worse excused as an accident. As part of my military training (you don't have ambulances five minutes away where we go) I'm trained in dealing with gunshot wounds. They're far worse than knife wounds, because the percussive deflagration expands into the body. It's not just the slug. I carry two knife wounds, they're just scars.  No , I didn't keep the log, but I wasn't winging it. You couldn't find it because it's become utterly commonplace, and you can't even see how evil that is. You claim community, but it's a fairly primitive level of tribalism, in reality.

When the UK decided we didn't need weapons, the only realistic target being ourselves, it was almost completely voluntary. Yes, we passed a law, but it was never questioned. I was sorry to lose the means to keep my skills up, but there we go. I can't square that with the consequences, life's about improving the world, not leaving a million grieving on top of the dead and injured.

If you don't trust the Government, vote in one you can trust. In hard reality, it's difficult to trust the gun-toting community after the shameful abuse of democracy that happened earlier this year, and continuously since. It's reduced that argument to claptrap. Do you really mean that power in the US comes from the barrel of a gun? If so, you don't deserve to be worldvleaders.

The Etsy line is International, and should serve as a message that in this, you're not the world leaders you should be. They're recognising that careful storage is a safety benefit, but you don't begin to understand what that means. I follow the LockPickingLawyer on YouTube, he's forever opening gun cases with tableforks and the like. Cases which can be opened by curious adolescents lacking the maturity to understand  the lethality of what can and too often does follow.

 

I'm selfish?  I should be glad the world has people willing to meddle in the affairs of others to keep them safe, right?  To paraphrase an Englishman, there is no tyranny greater than that done to you for your own good.  And I could make quite an argument that most of that gun violence is perpetrated in areas that are controlled by people who have effectively disarmed their citizens.  

Abuse of democracy?  That's laughable after calling riots peaceful protests all summer.  And now it's coming to light the FBI was involved in what happened on Jan 6th, which probably explains why large numbers of those folks were allowed in to the capital.  Assuming that's probably what you are talking about.  Would hate to allow both sides of the political spectrum to have equal rights.  Can't have that can we?  

There are a handful of western countries where disarming has gone bad more slowly for the populace.  Then again, you brits are starting to jail people for their opinions and let rapists walk free with no consequence so maybe that's changing for you.  But there are lots of countries where disarming the populace has led to more death by orders of magnitude.  And the political ideologies that require disarmament tend to always be drawn to that type of mass violence to force their position on those that don't want it.   

Guns are great equalizers.  Where are you going to turn when you can't vote in a Gov you want?  Why does a vote even matter if there are no consequences for ignoring it?  At some point, it actually is a bulwark to tyranny.  And it's a better bulwark than harsh words, which is all the disarmed have.  I'll take my chance with any dangers associated with gun ownership.  Because I know the dangers associated with being disarmed can be exponentially worse.  

 

Freedom does not equate safety.  There is a danger to it.  And clearly that danger isn't for everyone.  

[Frodo]

Allow me to interject and lay to bed the incorrect assumption that Background checks are not happening at gun shows or that you can buy a gun online 

First,  On line gun sales. You CAN order a gun online, It will NOT be sent to your house or place of business. It will be sent to an FFL holder in your community.  When the gun arrives, you fill out the proper paper work, under go a back ground check  before you touch the gun.  If you pass you may take possession of the gun

Secondly,  gun show gun sales.  Every gun that is sold by the venders at the gun show goes through a background check. NO EXCEPTIONS

Thirdly. private sales. You are allowed to sell a gun to another person with out a back ground check . 

This is how a private gun sale happens

You and Joe are sitting in Joes garage watching the game, joe  shows you a nice gun. You like it and offer Joe X amount of dollars. joe excepts the bid and hands you the gun.  Done deal, 

NOW, please tell me. HOW would you possibly enforce a back ground check on that gun sale?

No one was in the garage except the 2 men. So any LAW, that regulates a private sale is a law that is non-enforceable 

Another  sale

This is at a gun show

You and joe are at in  gun show parking lot and harry walks by with a really sweet Ar 15,  He says it is for sale.

Joe asks how much. harry tells him. Joe buys the gun.. This is a LEGAL private sale

Tell me HOW a private sale can be regulated?  it can't, it is impossible

Another gun sale, the news paper classified section

again. private sale

The only law in private sales is you can not buy a gun from someone that resides in another state

So in order to follow that law i ask for a state issued id. 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Frodo

[Kwaaked]

I can also point out that in Texas in '85, '86 and 88 I was required by the state to take gun safety courses as a mandatory class (I should have taken it once, but I moved to three different schools...and all required I take the course to the county and state standard).  My husband went through them in 9th grade in Tennessee about '83.

When I took mine, I had shot a gun absolutely zero times.  My grandfather made me wait until I was 12, 2 gun safety courses and the ability to tell you what caliber a gun was before I could shoot it (although he was pretty strict).  Courses were available in school as an optional thing until the mid 90s where I was.

When I was 40, I got a hunting license...and I don't even use a gun.  The state of Tennessee requires you to show proof of a gun safety class if you were born after Jan. 1, 1969...since I was and I wasn't going to bother finding 30 year old school records, I retook it.  Most people in the US that use guns have had some form of safety class, be it to hunt, mandatory in school or for a conceal and carry permit.

[fredk]

On etsy

1. its a privately owned on-line shopping place. They can put in place any rules they like

2. Like so many other bricks n mortar and on-line places the wimps and idiots set the rules

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, Rahere said:

If you didn't have them, they'd not get stolen. Most firearms in criminal hands in the UK are smuggled these days, and the presence is a rapid escalatory factor in policing tactics, which is shorthand for they'll likely call snipers in, to avoid risks to themselves and others. If you know having one is utterly and completely illegal, then not getting rid of it is in and of itself tantamount to suicide. These are NOT toys, and the days of the Wild West long behind you.

i think after seeing all the answers to your questions you can easily understand how much you don't know about our gun laws and almost every thing you stated are simply talking points for the lies the media is feeding you folks on the side of the pond. we wont even go into the facts associated with the majority of mass shooting and the knowledge the law had before hand. There has been more than one instance of a government sacrificing a few lives in order to push a political agenda but of course someone in the know as you are already understand that i'm sure.