Sailrite Leatherwork Machine

[GritMercantile]

We started out with the Stitch Master (Leather Worker). We sold it earlier this year and I still miss it. It was replaced with a Techsew 4800 Pro. We found that once you get used to how the machine works it can do a pretty good job sewing things. Sailrite has a good library of presser feet and feed dogs to accommodate most materials. We purchased ours when they went on sale for $999 right before COVID. We don't regret our purchase. It was a great machine to get started on and if you know the limitations you will be good. The only two gripes I had was a a max of 92 thread (prefer 138) and it was not a compound walking foot. Parts, service etc are prevalent and support for the Sailrite machines is really good.

[ChipperBags]

Okay, so I am having trouble finding machines in the used market.  I’m open to any machine that will fit the work and do it with great stitches.

The local Artisan dealer went up to the 246VA and sent me a clip of his personal machine running through some webbing.  Well the stitches were NOT super great and it even looked like it missed a stitch.  I just can’t justify spending that kind of money on something that is going to skip stitches.  And he didn’t answer my questions.

The other dealer here is not responding to me.

These 2 things alone are pushing me more towards the Sailrite.  The Fabricator is currently $1,795.  The Leatherwork is only $1,395.  That is a difference of $400.  You include shipping for around $55 and then add taxes and you are up to $1,554.53 for the Leatherwork and more than $400 difference by the time you are done.

I have looked a lot of places… what am I missing in searching for a good, used machine???

[Wizcrafts]

@ChipperBags- I am trying to understand what you plan to sew, so I can give a meaningful recommendation. You seem to be looking into various types of sewing machines, from a portable flatbed dual feed Sailrite Leatherworker or Fabricator to a cylinder arm compound feed Cowboy or Artisan. Then there's your used machine search that isn't going anywhere fast. Can you define the materials and thickness to be sewn for me?

I recommend you do as much research as possible before buying a new machine. If you buy the wrong machine for your work you may have to try to sell it off and buy a different machine. I wasted a lot of time and money looking for the right machines when I started out sewing leather. 

[ChipperBags]

21 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

@ChipperBags- I am trying to understand what you plan to sew, so I can give a meaningful recommendation. You seem to be looking into various types of sewing machines, from a portable flatbed dual feed Sailrite Leatherworker or Fabricator to a cylinder arm compound feed Cowboy or Artisan. Then there's your used machine search that isn't going anywhere fast. Can you define the materials and thickness to be sewn for me?

I recommend you do as much research as possible before buying a new machine. If you buy the wrong machine for your work you may have to try to sell it off and buy a different machine. I wasted a lot of time and money looking for the right machines when I started out sewing leather. 

I want to sew leather bags, and canvas/leather bags (based on some designs I have in my head) and ones I have seen online.  I will probably do some wallets, as most do.  Little ones, probably.  As far as machines I have been thinking about:

1. Leatherwork by Sailrite.  This is the non-portable flat bed hybrid.  It has the workhorse servo motor, a 24" table and the LS-1 Sailrite (in green) as well as a small speed reducer.  It is a complete package that is pretty nicely decked out and superbly supported.
2. Sailrite Fabricator?  No, not really.  I cannot afford this machine.
3. Consew 226R.  This one was used and was a local dealer.  Unfortunately, he never got a chance to put it together as the sewer line blew out under his floor.
4. Technicall the PFAFF under #5 below is also a flat bed machine.

At this point, I realized (due to information gathered here and elsewhere) that perhaps the BEST option would be a cylinder arm, compound feed machine. 

1. Consew 227R, nothing affordable
2. Tech Sew 2750 (recommended by a bunch of leather people here and on YouTube), again, not really in my budget
3. Started looking at the Yamata YF-335B.  Again, while really close to my budget, once shipping was added, it blew that out of the water.
4. Cowboy 341, which was suggested here.  Again, pricey.
5. Artisan 335 from a local dealer.  Well, he does not sell those any more because he doesn't like them (or they are discontinued), so he switched to the Artisan 246 (w/Reverse). And that is a nice machine, but again, over my budget.  Also, he sent me a 30 sec video of the machine stitching and the quality was not there.  Maybe it was not setup that well, I don't know.
6. And last night I found, on eBay a PFAFF 145 C-3.  This would work, but it was a 'barn find' and needs to be 'cleaned up' but I think that German engineering (and simple design) would be great.
7. There is a New Tech GC-8B for $1,399 with free shipping on eBay, but that is a Chinese machine and I have no idea, but I think that will also have to include taxes.  But, heck, so is the Tech Sew and "Little King Goods" and Parker of "Whit & Park" use those as well as other machines.

Now, that is the gambit.  Small Portable (non) Hybrid, flat bed Industrial machines and cylinder machines.

Like everybody says: "No one machine is going to do it all."  Which is why most of you have more than one and you have listed 11.  I'm just starting out.  My wife says I always pick expensive hobbies.  What I am looking for is something to do in my retirement that can bring me in some income as well as be a nice hobby to do.  I don't think I will ever become a power house like "Whit & Park" but I do love their videos!  Just look at it as my 'First Machine'.  And if I can make some money, I can get other tools/toys.

Because the used market situation is really bad as they are priced at the same cost as a brand new machine.  I am leaning heavily towards the Sailrite Leatherwork.  Which will run me $1,554.53.  It will be shipped to me in three boxes, I will put it together upstairs where the sewing room is and go from there.  That number, $1,500, IS my budget.  I could go with the GC-8B, but I have found little data on this as to how it performs in the real world by REAL USERS.  And it is Chinese.  I have nothing against the Chinese, but the quality of products from that country are NOT up to the same specifications as the Japanese, German or US machines.

Can I sew everything I want to on the Sailrite?  Probably.  Maybe not gussets easily, but perhaps I just do those some other way?

And now, the THICKNESS of the material.  I am looking to sew tote bags, in the 3-4 oz 5-6 oz range.  I am looking for the temper to be that they stand up by themselves on the table.  I might make some softer bags, already made two of those and had to put a stiffener in the bottom of each.  So, I hope that helps with my thinking and perhaps your ability to give me some 'advice'. 

At some point, like Willie from "The Thoughtful Woodworker", I would like to be able to make my own furniture... Cushioned in Leather, of course.

Thanks!

Chip from

CHIPPERBAGS

Edited October 22, 2022 by ChipperBags

[kgg]

2 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

Leatherwork by Sailrite.  This is the non-portable flat bed hybrid.  It has the workhorse servo motor, a 24" table and the LS-1 Sailrite (in green) as well as a small speed reducer.  It is a complete package that is pretty nicely decked out and superbly supported.

Save yourself some money and

1) get a clone like the Reliable Barracuda or the Kobe LSZ-1 for about $500 US

2) mount it in a table similar to what I an others have done for less then $75 US

3) If you like what they can do with the machine add a servo motor Reliable sewquiet 6000sm for $200 US. I don't know who copied it Sailrite or Reliable but it is the same motor as on the leatherworker.

This is how I decked a portable walking foot out.

 

2 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

At this point, I realized (due to information gathered here and elsewhere) that perhaps the BEST option would be a cylinder arm, compound feed machine. 

Since you first priority is bags a compound cylinder arm would definitely be the way to go but look at machines in the Juki 341/ 1341 class not the 335 class as most can only do V92 thread.

 

2 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

What I am looking for is something to do in my retirement that can bring me in some income as well as be a nice hobby to do. 

 

2 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

I am leaning heavily towards the Sailrite Leatherwork.  Which will run me $1,554.53.  It will be shipped to me in three boxes, I will put it together upstairs where the sewing room is and go from there.  That number, $1,500, IS my budget.

I would suggest adding more dollars to your budget of $1500 and get either a new machine or find a good used brand name machine. I think you will be sadly disappointed with the portable Sailrite. Another thing is the stitch length will decrease as the thickness being sewn increases on these machines.

 

2 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

I have nothing against the Chinese, but the quality of products from that country are NOT up to the same specifications as the Japanese, German or US machines.

Sailrite machines are also made in China however their quality appears to be better then the other portable sewing machines.

 

2 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

Can I sew everything I want to on the Sailrite?  Probably.  Maybe not gussets easily, but perhaps I just do those some other way?

Going to depend on what size of thread you want to use and the thickness of material you want to sew.

If all you think you need is a plain jane flatbed machine maybe consider the industrial Juki DU-1181n for about $1400. If it doesn't workout you should be able to sell it fairly easily without to much of a loss. Rather then just gamble on a machine you should really go to a brick and mortar dealer and test drive a few machines with what you want to sew.

kgg

 

[ChipperBags]

All reasonable suggestions/advice.

Thanks!

Chip from

CHIPPER BAGS

p.s.  I may have found a JUKI 1541 nearby for a reasonable price.  This to me would be a good name brand. High quality machine.

What do you think about this one?

Edited October 22, 2022 by ChipperBags

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

All reasonable suggestions/advice.

Thanks!

Chip from

CHIPPER BAGS

p.s.  I may have found a JUKI 1541 nearby for a reasonable price.  This to me would be a good name brand. High quality machine.

What do you think about this one?

Juki is one of the best sewing machine brands. It will be a great machine to start with. Later on, if business picks up, you can search for a cylinder arm machine to sew around gussets and round shaped items, like bags. Actually, if you can find a used Juki LS-341, or clone, you'd be golden. 

[kgg]

4 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

 I may have found a JUKI 1541 nearby for a reasonable price.  This to me would be a good name brand. High quality machine.

As Wiz has said the Juki is one of the best sewing machine brands out there. Lots of accessories are available and fairly inexpensive compared to some of the other brand names. The Juki DNU-1541's are still made in Japan and come in two versions the DNU-1541 or DNU-1541"S". Capability wise no difference just the DNU-1541"S" has a safety mechanism that will trip should you jam up and at some point I think everyone will overload a machine at least once. The cost difference on a quick check of the sew machines plus website shows the new cost of DNU-1541at $1729 US and a DNU-1541S at $1795 US. Those prices include a table and servo motor but shipping is extra. Those prices will give you an idea of how good or bad the price for the use one is in comparison.

kgg

[ChipperBags]

Thanks guys!  Also, I meant to say “… probably not…”

The price for the machine, table, and clutch drive motor is enough under my budget, that I could replace the clutch for a sewline6000 servo motor AND get a speed reducer!

Its a good deal IF the machine is in good shape.

I am going to look at it tomorrow!

The other one is slightly over my budget and 200 miles away, but it is only 2 years old and hardly used already repackaged on the pallet.

Actually, you can see that one on eBay.

Chip from

CHIPPER BAGS

[CowboyBob]

On 10/22/2022 at 8:43 AM, ChipperBags said:

All reasonable suggestions/advice.

Thanks!

Chip from

CHIPPER BAGS

p.s.  I may have found a JUKI 1541 nearby for a reasonable price.  This to me would be a good name brand. High quality machine.

What do you think about this one?

Not because we are a Juki dealer but I will have to concur with Wiz the Juki is a way better built machine than the Sailrite & will sew thicker & hold up better to the stress of heavier leather,it should sew an easy 5/16" or 20 oz.

[ChipperBags]

I got my machine!

Now, my machine is my birthday present from my wife and when I showed her the Sailrite Leatherwork, she liked the way it looked and the stitches that came off of it in the demo and unbeknownst to me, she went ahead and ordered it!

It arrived last Saturday!  I assembled it Sunday AM.  No troubles, or issues!  Did some test sewing on their piece of leather, so troubles.  Doubled up their piece of leather, which totaled 22 oz and sewed that, and as long as you went slow, it stitched just fine.  Speed up and there are some missed stitches.  But, that is WAYYY over the top for what the machine is rated at, which is 16 oz.

And she's right, "It's cute!"

I LOVE IT!

I have already made a sheath for our rather large sewing shears and I repaired a wax canvas and leather bag my son has for school.  The sheath was really easy, and the leather was 9 oz, 18 doubled up and the machine did GREAT!

The bag would have been much easier with a cylinder arm machine, but maybe after I make a little money, which will have to be after I learn how to do this better, I can get that kind of machine.

Regardless, I love my new Sailrite Leatherwork, which is on a table with the same Servo motor that the Fabricator comes with and it even has a speed reducer.  It is a pleasure to sew on.  Once I get a little better and understand the limitations of it more, I will be building the extension table that Willie Sanders made for his for mine.  I think that will be quite helpful.

Thanks,

Chip from

CHIPPER BAGS

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, ChipperBags said:

Speed up and there are some missed stitches. 

You may be able to improve the stitching (and get rid of skipping) over 1/4 inch by adding pressure to the feet, and/or increasing the travel of the check spring, and/or by moving up one needle size. Also, needle shape impacts the stitching at the outer limits. Try different points. I find that the diamond points give more clearance in the holes than slicing points. The last thing to do, if you expect to sew this thickness regularly, is to alter the timing. Since your machine is new, try the simpler adjustments first. You don't want to void any warranty by dinking with something they don't want users to dink with.

[ChipperBags]

Thanks, Wiz!

Sailrite wants you to dink with stuff.  Sadly, I’ve dinked with it to the point where it does not feed in reverse.

I took their position plate off so I could measure forward and reverse stitch length, that’s all I wanted to was get them set the SAME!

once the forward and reverse lever had full range of motion, it will go 7.1mm in forward, with beautiful stitches, but try to go in reverse and the stitches were only 3mm.

Thats when I emailed Sailrite!  I already have an open customer support ticket.  They sent me how to adjust the pressor foot height and range of motion video.

I stopped for the night, put the machine back together so as to not lose pieces.

I figure this is something, that I don’t think I should have to go through, all machines probably need a bit of setup… Especially after I messed with the feed dog height coming up through the table.  This is a bit frustrating though.  The good news is I really don’t enough material for anything real, but I got some scraps for testing.

Chip from

CHIPPER BAGS

[ChipperBags]

Well, for anyone who is following my saga…

My machine is working again!  It turns out that when I was repairing the waxed canvas and leather bag, I must have “pushed” too hard on something because it just kept getting worse and worse.  It would not move any material in either direction at one point.  Sailrite kept sending me their adjustment video and I showed them a video of my machine.  The walking foot was not even lifting up.  I traced that back to the cam that controls the up down motion and when I checked, both set screws were loose.  After I tightened them up, the walking foot was moving as it should.  The inner foot, which is supposed to go up and down was not moving.  Figured there had to be something controlling that too.  Sure enough those set screws were loose as well!  Tightened them all up, then ran through their adjustment video and all is almost right with world.

Forward, check!

Reverse, check (still working on matching f/r stitch lengths though)

Now I have one new problem issue.  Thread shredding when going from forward to reverse.  Is it possible all of those adjustments I made threw off the timing of the hook slightly?

I have also set my Servo to a max speed of 5 until I’m more comfortable with the machine.

As always thanks for the interest, help and encouragement!

Chip from

CHIPPER BAGS

[ChipperBags]

Once I get the shredding under control I’m going to make 3 sheaths for the remainder of our sewing scissors.

Wish me luck! 

[kgg]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:58 PM, ChipperBags said:

Now I have one new problem issue.  Thread shredding when going from forward to reverse.

What size of thread and needle size combination are you using? In thicker / tougher material you will probably have to go up one size above the recommended needle size. A good thread versus needle size chart can be found on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine website (www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html).

kgg

[shoemaker4]

I have both a 1541S clone (with the dual pretension assembly from a 1508 which enables my 1541 to tension #207 and #277 top & bottom) and a Portable Walking Foot

 

the Portable is a great Binding Station and the true value in it is in being a Walking Foot Zig Zag.  That is just a unique value in and of itself. I see the Portable as more-so a complimentary machine to pair alongside a dedicated compound feed like a 1541/206Rb/111w etc etc.

 

the later 1541's are quite possibly the best compound feed machines in their respective class. I've sewn on the newer pneumatic 869's and LU-2810's and I didn't necessarily prefer them over the 1541. They are more "featured" machines sure, but they all completed tasks to the same degree. If there is something a 1541/1508 cannot sew it's time to get a 441 Class machine. Like I said mine has the dual tension assembly from the 1508N, most of the JUKI models only have the single tension pre-tension unit.

 

Sailrite's Portable is nice, the metal tolerances are better and you can truthfully swap their parts into a REX/TUFFSEW/OmegaSew/Sewline etc etc. I'm in process of adding Posi-Pin to mine. There is utility in the Portable Walking Foot but it will need another $300-$600 to be machine-hacked into being useful. I think it's best as a complimentary machine though.

Edited November 4, 2022 by shoemaker4

[ChipperBags]

21 hours ago, kgg said:

What size of thread and needle size combination are you using? In thicker / tougher material you will probably have to go up one size above the recommended needle size. A good thread versus needle size chart can be found on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine website (www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html).

kgg

Ahh, well, when I use the white bonded polyester thread that came with the machine everything is working now.  When I use a bonded nylon thread is when it’s gets shredded.

needle is a 20 and the thread is 92 for both kinds.  I really wanted to be able to use the nylon as I thought that would be better for leather, but I could be wrong.  Regardless, is there something I need to change on the machine to run the bonded nylon?  Bobbin tension?, needle size? as you said, tension?

It is getting me rather frustrated with my brand new machine, which is attached to a table with a speed reducer and servo motor.  I can tell you that the setup, while not a compound feed, is really very nice.  As long as I can get it sewing.  And like I said with the polyester, no problems.  I even got the forward and reverse almost perfect!

Chip

[kgg]

1 hour ago, ChipperBags said:

When I use a bonded nylon thread is when it’s gets shredded.

needle is a 20 and the thread is 92 for both kinds.

Bonded polyester is usually a softer thread which is great for items that are going to be exposed to UV and chemicals like bleach. Bonded nylon can be stiffer with darker colored thread being stiffer with black the stiffest. A lot of thread problems can be related too:

i) poor quality needles having burrs. Buy brand name needles.Also check that the needle is properly inserted and aligned squarely.

ii) needle deflection causing the needle to rub on the presser foot or feed dog which may have a sharp edge. Check for rubbing, smooth out sharp edges and maybe move up a needle size to eliminate needle deflection.

iii) poor quality tensioners.

iv) poorer quality no name brands that the thread often comes off the spool more like you were uncoiling a wire spool with too much coil memory. Buy brand name thread.

v) poor thread tension on the spools of thread particularly the 8 oz thread spools size. Buy brand name thread.

vi) incorrect head height from the top of the thread spool to the top guide hole of the thread stand. A rule of thumb is the distance from the base of the spool to the top guide hole of the thread stand should be 2.5 times the height of the spool of thread. Re-located / readjust thread stand.

vii) to steep of angles from the top guide hole of the thread stand to the sewing machines thread guide pin. Ideal is that the thread enters as close to horizontal as possible into the sewing machines thread pin. An example of how this can be done is mount the thread under the table as I done on a table mounted portable zig zag walking foot. Note how the thread comes through the table top and the thread spools one for the bobbin and one for the top thread are mounted on the K-leg.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by kgg

[ChipperBags]

This is the thread when the shredding happens.  I would linked it, but I don’t know exactly how to do this.  It was from Amazon.

Desirable Life Bonded Nylon N66 Sewing Thread 1100 Yards Size #92 T90 280D/3 for Leather Denim Hand Machine Craft Shoe Bag Repairing Extra Strong Heavy Duty High Temperature Resistant Waterproof

Sorry about the font.

I see your extra long feeds for the thread.  I think this stuff might need to actually spin off of the cone.  It feels sturdier than the polyester.

It probably twists to the point of breakage and then the hook nicks it and that’s all she wrote.

Makes sense.

Thanks, kgg!

 

Chip

[kgg]

7 hours ago, ChipperBags said:

Desirable Life Bonded Nylon N66 Sewing Thread 1100 Yards Size #92 T90 280D/3 for Leather Denim Hand Machine Craft Shoe Bag Repairing Extra Strong Heavy Duty High Temperature Resistant Waterproof

I am not familiar with this thread but did read some mixed reviews of the product from customers in Canada. I would suggest:

i) you purchase a brand name thread like American & Efird either directly ( www.amefird.com www.amefird.ca ) or from places like Wawak (wawak.com wawak.ca ) or even Sailrite. A&E sewing threads are made in both the US and Canada and are quality threads. I have never had any problems with A&E threads in any of my machines.

ii) readjust the bobbin thread tension by doing the drop test. When you go from one type of thread (bonded polyester to bonded nylon), change thread size (V69 to V92) to another or change thread manufacturers you should or at least recheck the bobbin tension. If you have to change the bobbin tension turn the tension screw in very small amounts like 1/16 of a turn on the screw and do the drop test again.

Any chance of posting a photo of your top thread path from the thread spool to the needle it maybe helpful.

kgg

[ChipperBags]

I hope my pictures make it.  Nope!  Too big.

So, do I have to reduce image res on my phone camera?
Chip

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by ChipperBags
Added photo after reducing the file size

[Northmount]

1 hour ago, ChipperBags said:

I hope my pictures make it.  Nope!  Too big.

So, do I have to reduce image res on my phone camera?

See this post for some helps.  Many other ways to reduce file size as well. 

[MtlBiker]

@ChipperBags - In case you're using an iPhone, I've been using a program called "Image SIze" by Codenia.com for a couple of years now.  It's great for reducing image sizes for posting to websites.  I also have their "Batch Resize" for doing more than one image at a time.  Not free, but very reasonable purchase.

From the last photo you posted, it looks like your thread is NOT correct through the first pin.  It looks like it's going straight through when it should be in one hole, back around the post and out through another hole.  I understand that's a new machine for you... have you followed the instructions in the excellent Sailrite manual for threading?

 

[ChipperBags]

16 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

@ChipperBags - In case you're using an iPhone, I've been using a program called "Image SIze" by Codenia.com for a couple of years now.  It's great for reducing image sizes for posting to websites.  I also have their "Batch Resize" for doing more than one image at a time.  Not free, but very reasonable purchase.

From the last photo you posted, it looks like your thread is NOT correct through the first pin.  It looks like it's going straight through when it should be in one hole, back around the post and out through another hole.  I understand that's a new machine for you... have you followed the instructions in the excellent Sailrite manual for threading?

 

I will double check the post threading… I thought the two holes were only used on the Fabricator, Juki 1541, Consew 226R and other full indies.

Admittedly though, no, I have not checked.  Simply watched videos.  And I may have skipped a step.

Thanks,

Chip