Having problems binding around corners

[chrisash]

Have brought a binder for my 111G155 but having problems going around corners with the bias tape, it looks so simple on yt but not for me.

I think its the position of the binder as i cannot get it very close to the machine so about 5mm away from the end of the straight guide after the 90% bend. have placed magnetic guide alongside zip feet and needle to fill in the gap but still having problems,

I have been trying to swivel the material at the needle position but tape is coming away from material, any clues to my stupidity

Limited holes n machine to place the binder and cannot move it closer to needle as would require a hole drilled through the thin part of the right plate so would not take a thread

[Constabulary]

Binder is too far away from the needle, bring it closer to the needle and if necessary cut down the inner foot.

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Constabulary

[jimi]

This topic might help you Chris...

 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, chrisash said:

Limited holes n machine to place the binder and cannot move it closer to needle as would require a hole drilled through the thin part of the right plate so would not take a thread

This is the problem with the style of binder you are using on the flatbed. The 90 degree binder is more suited to the cylinder arm machines. I find using the cheap inline binders much better as you can get the exit part of the binder to just about touching the pressor foot to stop binder tape run away. I even built an adapter for my cylinder bed to accept the inline binders. I'm cheap and why have to styles of binders. An option if you really want to use an 90 degree binder is to find one that has a 1/2" long exit fold that is at 90 degrees to the binder tip. That will allow you to get it closer to the pressor foot. 

kgg

[kgg]

To you visualize the 1/2" long exit fold that is at 90 degrees to the binder tip and another alternative using a 90 binder mounted to a feed dog cover-plate. The one mounted to the plate hasn't got a 90 exit piece as it can be set really close to the needle. This may give you some idea's.

kgg

[SARK9]

2 hours ago, kgg said:

The one mounted to the plate hasn't got a 90 exit piece as it can be set really close to the needle.

I use the generic double-fold 90-deg. binders (which are SOLD for use on flatbeds) mounted to the bobbin cover plate. This combination WAS mounted on my 111w152 but is now on a rebadged LU-562. As you can see, the needle just can't be much closer to the finished work exiting from the back of the folder. I have the synchronous binder stuff available on my CU-865 Mitsubishi cylinder arm, and it works pretty well, but I really can't see much advantage to it unless the work has a 3-D curved shape and won't lay properly if sewn flattened out.

-DC

[kgg]

9 minutes ago, SARK9 said:

I use the generic double-fold 90-deg. binders (which are SOLD for use on flatbeds) mounted to the bobbin cover plate.

The most important thing I find is how close you can get to the needle without having the pressor foot touch and the proper back tension being applied to the binding tape. Personally, I prefer the inline binders over the 90 degree binders which I think has more to do with personal preference rather then performance and of course cost is always a factor.

kgg

[chrisash]

Many thanks folks for the suggestions, It looks like i need to by a swing adapter from College tomorrow as unable to get this binder any closer. and apart from the rather expensive binders available, cannot see and that offer 45% which would possible give more fixing flexibility

[SARK9]

4 hours ago, kgg said:

Personally, I prefer the inline binders over the 90 degree binders which I think has more to do with personal preference rather then performance

Binding tighter *inside curves* easily with an inline binder requires some arcane incantations I never was taught, I suppose. The 90 degree makes it way easier. I suppose doing enough faceplants attempting it with an inline binder makes my 90 degree cure a sort of personal preference.   LOL.

-DC

[nylonRigging]

On 7/4/2021 at 4:01 AM, chrisash said:

-

modification of threads title .. Having problems binding around corners  'Radius Curve' .
If you having difficulty binding around Radius curves ?  Then you will find little Joy with  'Turning Corners' . .. LOL
.

Edited July 5, 2021 by nylonRigging

[chrisash]

My arn't you clever

[nylonRigging]

9 hours ago, chrisash said:

My arn't you clever

Hey, just poking fun . . and I can feel your pain, I spent last couple days binding on radius items.
Over the years, I have picked out many a stitch out of seam Binding on an radius item, just to re-bind the job over again . Doing Single and double-needle binding radius, There is definitely some acquired technique to it, but a Lot of the battle is getting your setup tuned just right .
.

[Constabulary]

34 minutes ago, nylonRigging said:

Lot of the battle is getting your setup tuned just right .

Thats the point!

Just as everything in sewing - it has to be set up properly... needle bars, hooks, feed dogs, feet... you name it... edge guide, binder brackets and attachments. And sometimes it requires to modify parts cause not everything comes of the shelf and is a universal fit part. There are just toooooo many variables in sewing.

@chrisash the swing bracket may be a solution but is not guaranteed to be the solution that works "of the shelf"

For the 111 there are special raised throat plates + feed dogs for binders, built up slide plates (for drilling holes and taping thread) and feet sets for binding... just dig through their 111 parts side (also look at the Singer 211 and Juki 562 / 563, Seiko STW 8 / LSW  part sites)

Edited July 6, 2021 by Constabulary

[chrisash]

The college swing away did not work just placed the guide alongside the needle, but attaching the binder would still leave it to far away from the needle so back to drawing board for a binder that has adjustment screws on the outside of the binder not the inside as at present. Well at least i now have a fixed guide rather than magnetic ones

[jimi]

That is also a big toe on your foot? I would get a cheap one the same and grind it down. This is ideally what you are looking to achieve...This is a Pfaff 335.

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, chrisash said:

The college swing away did not work just placed the guide alongside the needle, but attaching the binder would still leave it to far away from the needle so back to drawing board for a binder that has adjustment screws on the outside of the binder not the inside as at present. Well at least i now have a fixed guide rather than magnetic ones

A few decades ago I was sewing safety vests that were edge bound. I tried using off the shelf binders to no avail. The dealer finally gave me a number to call and I had a binder custom built for the machine and the binding I wanted to use. Once I got that binder I never had a binding problem whether on inside/outside curves, turns, or straightaways. You may need to explore a custom binder and foot set to go with it.

[chrisash]

Thanks guys your advice always welcome, My thoughts were to learn a new skill at low cost to myself, just for the hell of it with no real idea of what Project if any I would use the skill for

It does look like my machine and cheap binders are against me at nearly every turn, so will put it on hold for the moment as have a few ladies handbags planned to make, using Chrome and fabric non of which require the binder

So frustrating that these machines do not have a couple of standard holes, to fit attachments to, but just like cars a few years ago, horn switch, light switch or headlight dimmers could be anywhere around the steering wheel and as a heavily user of hire cars where i could drop off and join ships anywhere, the first 20 miles of driving a hire car was always interesting finding out that models eccentricities especially on a dark winters morning

[Constabulary]

I have to admit binder are a special topic but the cheap ones are not against you. It´s just tinkering and knowing how to set up the binder.

I´m using the freakin cheapest binders I could find (back then) and they work very well. Mine came from kits for flat bed machines like these (just minor differences):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353465220561

and I modified the brackets to fit my 108w20 cylinder bed machine. Zero issues - really!

You can find complete 111w binder kits like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/300921860528

Pretty sure College Sewing has all the components.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Constabulary

[Esket]

I fell down the rabbit hole after getting frustrated with binding curved pieces. I mostly do bags/backpacks and was having a hard time properly binding the foam and Cordura sandwich on the back panels. Someone on gearmaker (rip) suggested I needed to get a good binder, made for my machine and materials, and suggested three places:

B&J Attachments (Montreal) http://www.bjattachments.com/

Tennessee Attachment Co http://www.tennattachment.com/

Atlanta Attachment https://www.atlatt.com/

I own two B&J's, a 1" needleplate and ¾" swing-away for my Juki 1541s and it improved binding tremendously. I live in Los Angeles and tried three local places assuming because I had a common machine with a common foot that it would be easy, especially considering how many industrial machines are in the city- I was wrong. All three stores absolutely botched the binders, they were modifying cheap Chinese clone pieces and most didn't even fit and the ones that did either didn't work well or the cut-down feet weren't sized correctly. 

After spending weeks spinning my wheels I realized why good binders cost more (~$175-250). When you order from the places I listed they will have you send in what materials you plan on using. It's such a huge upgrade and really alleviates a lot of the headaches. I've since acquired a cylinder arm w/ synchronized binder that makes binding even easier to but still keep the attachments for the Juki on the days I need to do two colors or different setups. I cannot stress enough how much frustration and cursing are alleviated by replacing a crap binder with one that's specifically made for your materials and machine. All three of the companies I listed make quality attachments so you have options. 

 

EDIT: An easy way to sum it up: the materials you use for binding might be totally thicker or thinner than the materials I use, same with the materials we're pushing through. No Goldilocks binder exists, so imagine how hard clean binding is to achieve when either your binding material is too tight or sliding around in the folder and the materials you're binding are either too large to fit through so they're not feeding evenly or are swimming in the open space. This is why getting a binder made to your individual specs is so crucial. More precision = cleaner stitching and a more even binding

Edited July 12, 2021 by Esket

[RockyAussie]

Just my 2 cents...Some binding tapes are very bad on corners and some are wonderful even though they measure the same and the same applies with some leathers as well.

[Esket]

20 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

Just my 2 cents...Some binding tapes are very bad on corners and some are wonderful even though they measure the same and the same applies with some leathers as well.

In the nylon world it can vary a lot between the different types of binding tape/grosgrain and bias tape, add to that the different stretch values and stretch direction of each fabric. This is before accounting for width, too, haha. 

This is why I keep it to one mil-spec binding from one manufacturer- it always handles the same and I can design for it easier knowing how it will act. 

[LindanHotAir]

1 hour ago, Esket said:

In the nylon world it can vary a lot between the different types of binding tape/grosgrain and bias tape, add to that the different stretch values and stretch direction of each fabric. This is before accounting for width, too, haha. 

This is why I keep it to one mil-spec binding from one manufacturer- it always handles the same and I can design for it easier knowing how it will act. 

I have purchased from Bally Ribbon Mills for mil-spec tape and webbing.

 

[Xanthe]

Intersting topic, and the contacts look great, but I am in the UK.  Any recommendations for binding experts here?

 

[Constabulary]

College Sewing - they have tons of different binders, folders... Not sure if they still offer the printed catalogue but it is worth having. Great reference for binder  attachments and so forth.

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/folders-attachments

[Xanthe]

Thank you, that is a lot of different binders to choose from.  

I am new to binding and although I doubted my set up for a while, with about 2 weeks of constant practice binding tight corners, I have finally cracked it. For anyone else learning this skill I would recommend lots of patience and determination.