Did Europeans ever make hook and awl stitchers?

[Cumberland Highpower]

Ok, just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a European made Hook and Awl machine made in Europe?  Or are they more of an American phenomenon? 

Once when I was riding a slow train in Transylvania, I happened to pass a shop near the tracks with an open door.   Right in the doorway was a big RED harness stitcher of some sort, that appeared to be a hook and awl machine.    Kind of reminded me from that distance of something similar to a Landis 16 or Champion Wide Throat.  Big, on a cast iron stand.

Just been curious for years.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[RockyAussie]

Back in my old shoe repairing/making days I had a couple of these RED Vilh Pedersen outsole stitches that were made in Denmark I believe.

Does this look anything like it?

Here are a few more pics in this link - https://auctionet.com/en/515262-skomakarmaskin-modell-309-vilh-pedersen-danmark/images

[Cumberland Highpower]

Hello not quite looking like what I saw (Was for certain a harness stitcher), but I learned something already.  So there is at least one hook/awl machine made in Europe after all

That seems to have the look of being a good machine though. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[Matt S]

I don't know if Britain counts as "European" but Pearson & Bennion (and then BUSM when they bought them out) had one, they called it the No4. Big brother to the more common No 6. 

 

[Cumberland Highpower]

Coming from the US, I guess I'd consider Britain "European"    It is, it's not...But it is.  Germanic/Latin base (by way of French) language, right on the coast of continental Europe, Settled by Angles and Saxons, Celts, etc, Cristian religion (Mostly).  You're even EU.  Or are/were? I dont know.

I've heard of Pearsons but never owned one or seen one in use.  did have a Luberto Classic for a short while, I guess that's relatively close.

That's pretty unique that No4.   So I guess there is one.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[jimi]

Here is a Rafflenbeul MS200. made in Germany

 

[Matt S]

4 hours ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

Coming from the US, I guess I'd consider Britain "European"    It is, it's not...But it is.  Germanic/Latin base (by way of French) language, right on the coast of continental Europe, Settled by Angles and Saxons, Celts, etc, Cristian religion (Mostly).  You're even EU.  Or are/were? I dont know.

It's a somewhat vexed question, one which most Britons can't even agree on the definition of what is and isn't European. Certainly we are no longer a member of the EU. Discussing that in a civil manner has become a bit like picking up a turd by the clean end though so I think it's best I leave it there. 
 

Quote

I've heard of Pearsons but never owned one or seen one in use.  did have a Luberto Classic for a short while, I guess that's relatively close.

That's pretty unique that No4.   So I guess there is one.

Pearson/BUSM machines are beauties of engineering and machining from a past age. The No6 is most common (closed eye needle feed with a jumping foot). No4s are pretty rare beasts, IIRC I've only "talked" with owners twice online whereas there's hundreds or thousands of No6 owners around. They were real beasts indeed -- the catalogue says the head alone weighed c.450lb, used threads size 10/18 to 20/18 and sewed up to 1" of leather. (The No6 is rated for 3/4" of leather but I've done 1" and a bit more on mine so maybe the No4 could do more too?)

[chrisash]

Beg to differ there is no question, Europe is a continent and Great Britain is part of it.

The EU is different in that its a political union that is changing nearly all the time

 

[Cumberland Highpower]

40 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Beg to differ there is no question, Europe is a continent and Great Britain is part of it.

The EU is different in that its a political union that is changing nearly all the time

 

I always got a laugh when I would hear on tv about the Serbs "Trying to join Europe".

Chrisash I would agree.  Although on a flip coin I bet even you might disagree with your point in the right context.

For example, I consider Russians as Europeans, in spite of the fact the majority of Russia is in Asia and rather not on the European Continent.  When it comes to Turks, I would say no.  Turkey is partially in Europe, but the majority not....And in no way do I consider Turks as European.

Matt I think a Pearson 6 would be pretty sharp to have.  I'm never against a good classic piece of machinery.   A no 4 weighing 450lbs is crazy heavy for just a head.  I can't think of any quite that heavy. Maybe a Champion Wide Throat or Campbell Cyclone?    I'm guessing on the Cyclone.  Never owned one, but I did see 4 rebuilt machines on a pallet once.  Pretty massive pieces of machinery. I'm just curious about all this,  I don't think I'm "allowed" to buy any new stitching machines though as I have 10 already.....Do you find the no 6 to be a slower stitching machine than others by virtue of the design?

Now that I've invoked Russia in the discussion, are there any leatherworking machines such as stitchers made either in Russia or the USSR of old?

Edited October 26, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[Matt S]

27 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Beg to differ there is no question, Europe is a continent and Great Britain is part of it.

The EU is different in that its a political union that is changing nearly all the time

How can a collection of islands be part of a continent?

I know many people who conflate "European" with citizenship/membership of the EU. I consider that to be factually wrong and often deliberately misleading, but it is their opinion, to which they are just as entitled as I to mine.
 

1 hour ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

Now that I've invoked Russia in the discussion, are there any leatherworking machines such as stitchers made either in Russia or the USSR of old?

That's a great question! There must be some, or else all those army boots (for trampling Marxist love onto decadent Western pig-dogs) and pistol holsters (for the transportation of dissident execution machines) would have been hand made. I have a vague recollection of something like a bad copy of the Singer 45K manufactured in one of the former-Soviet states being discussed once on here but can't remember any further details, except that it had non-interchangeable parts.

[MikeRock]

Google......  Singer had a factory in Podolsk, Russia, first machine off the line in 1905....  for what it's worth.  No mention of heavy all and hook machines.  They do mention 'industrial'.

"In 1931 for the first time the factory began producing industrial models and also sewing machine needles. Production in 1931 was around 520,000 machines with 11,000 workers.

After WW11 the Podolsk factory was re-equipped with machinery taken as reparations from the former Singer factory in Wittenberge. The older designs that Podolsk had been producing were updated at that time using details of the later Singer features taken from Wittenberge.

The factory was renamed Podolsk Engineering Plant (PMZ), and then later as Kalinin Sewing Machines (ZIK)

During the 1960's and 70's there was massive over-production of poor quality and outdated machines and the factory went into decline.

In 1994 with the changing political situation in Russia, the plant was purchased by Semi-Tech, which also owned the Singer brand, so the Podolsk factory was once again renamed as Singer. The factory was finally closed around 2000.

In 2011 the city of Podolsk celebrated the 230th anniversary of the town by erecting a full size bronze sculpture of a Singer sewing machine and treadle table mounted on a red granite pedestal in front of the local museum."

[TonyV]

4 hours ago, Matt S said:

How can a collection of islands be part of a continent?

Tectonic plates.  Example, the island of Iceland is considered to be part of the European continent because it sits on the eastern edge of the mid-Atlantic ridge, the western edge of the European continental plates.  OTH, the island of Greenland is considered to be part of the North American continent, as it sits west of that ridge on the eastern edge of the North American plates.

The Japanese islands are considered to be part of the Asian continent for similar reasons. British Isles are indeed part of Europe, even though they are not "Continental".

 

 

[Cumberland Highpower]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:21 PM, MikeRock said:

Google......  Singer had a factory in Podolsk, Russia, first machine off the line in 1905....  for what it's worth.  No mention of heavy all and hook machines.  They do mention 'industrial'.

"In 1931 for the first time the factory began producing industrial models and also sewing machine needles. Production in 1931 was around 520,000 machines with 11,000 workers.

After WW11 the Podolsk factory was re-equipped with machinery taken as reparations from the former Singer factory in Wittenberge. The older designs that Podolsk had been producing were updated at that time using details of the later Singer features taken from Wittenberge.

The factory was renamed Podolsk Engineering Plant (PMZ), and then later as Kalinin Sewing Machines (ZIK)

During the 1960's and 70's there was massive over-production of poor quality and outdated machines and the factory went into decline.

In 1994 with the changing political situation in Russia, the plant was purchased by Semi-Tech, which also owned the Singer brand, so the Podolsk factory was once again renamed as Singer. The factory was finally closed around 2000.

In 2011 the city of Podolsk celebrated the 230th anniversary of the town by erecting a full size bronze sculpture of a Singer sewing machine and treadle table mounted on a red granite pedestal in front of the local museum."

Mike I am not sure if Singer ever made any hook and awl machines, even in the States?  

Edited October 29, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[MikeRock]

I don't know either, but they mentioned  'industrial'.   I see spell check doesn't like 'awl' and changed it to 'all'.....