Handstitch vs Machine for artisan pieces

[Warhauk]

I'm new to the entire concept of leatherworking and am looking into buying the basic equipment I need to get started. I intend for it to be a hobby to start with but hopefully one that can either pay for itself or preferrably net me a profit. While I haven't gotten my feet wet quite yet to know what aspects I do and don't like, I think I would be interested in doing more artisan style work with a lot of hand carving and detail work.

I also understand that learning the basics is important and fully intend to become proficient at hand stitching but it seems very time consuming and potentially tedious. So my real question would be the pros and cons of machine sewing vs hand stitching when it comes to artisan stuff (and also for quicker tasks) for quality and profit.

For example, I would imagine that for a relatively simple wallet that doesn't take too long to make, machine sewing might be perfectly acceptable, even if i would have to sell it for less, but that balance seems like it would be easy to determine.

But if i spent a long time on a nicely detailed piece(not sure what type of piece yet), would using a machine just tank the quality of the piece to the extent it isnt even worth saving the time? Or maybe it would just balance toward the sewing took less time and is also not hand done, so the value of the piece drops proportional to the time saved?

Maybe I am oversimplifying the situation because I am sure there are other factors involved, but it was just a question that started nagging at me a bit.

[YinTx]

I hand stitch.  Very little machine stitched.  I hand tool leather, nothing press/embossed.

Can't say that I've ever had enough folks pay enough $$ to make those two endeavors profitable.

I think it was maybe Maker's Leather that did a survey and overwhelmingly customers were not willing to pay extra for hand stitching.  So he bought machines and never looked back.

If you are good enough with the machine, you can get a very high quality stitch, that some will have difficulty differentiating from hand.  Most customers don't know any different, and luxury house brands machine stitch with horrible quality and get away with it.  Things to ponder.

YinTx

[AzShooter]

YINTX is right, hand stitching looks better than most machine stitching but the most important thing is will you get a return on your investment of  a sewing machine.  

I just make a few pieces for sale and have had a lot of luck telling people it's hand stitched.  They seem to think its worth more because I take the extra time and effort.

But if you are doing volume, a machine is probably the way to go.  Again, some people will like the fact that you used a machine and think the stitching is superior.

Catch 22.

[Handstitched]

50/50 . For me I think it depends on the individual project. There are some projects where handstitching is best suited for appearance , functionality & authenticity , but  as for volume items,  as 'AZShooter'  said, this is where the machine is good. But you can still achieve an attractive   well made item with machine stitching as well.  If time is in short supply, once again, a machine is good, also good for just punching out the holes ready for hand stitching......sshh.... .but we never do that...do we??....mmmnah !!  

HS

[Spyros]

49 minutes ago, Handstitched said:

 If time is in short supply, once again, a machine is good, also good for just punching out the holes ready for hand stitching......sshh.... .but we never do that...do we??....mmmnah !!  

HS

Thats brutal 

good onya

[chrisash]

Don't overthink things, as you say it's a hobby at present so spend a year or so learning the skills needed to make nice objects, if you can saddle stitch with good results then consider a sewing machine if that's what's needed, 99.9% of the population will never be able to tell the difference between machine and hand and the few who can may well pick out the slight fault in hand stitching first.

So many seem to think they can make a living out of leather, and find that unless they come up with a fresh idea rather than Belts and wallets etc, it just does not sell or pay, you need to look at the work and attention to detail of people like Brian @RockyAussie to make money. Read Nigel Armitage's book and learn the skills and get some original idea's

[Tugadude]

No matter what method is chosen you should strive to make it as good as possible.  So that means if it is machine-stitched, strive for the best appearance and function of the stitch.  I'll give an example.  I was recently in a store that featured a number of leather goods.  They were obviously machine stitched with one side of a much thicker thread.  The end result caused the other side to look cheap and fragile.  Who wants a wallet that only looks decent from one side?

Did the maker save that much money by using thinner thread?  Or was there another reason?  I don't machine-sew, so I'm not hip to all of the potential variables.  All I know is they didn't look "up to snuff".  

The fact that I hand stitch doesn't mean I can't appreciate a well made, machine-stitched product.  And I'm sure a lot of effort goes into making the most of it.

So in the end, no matter how the thread got there it needs to look good and be durable.

[Spyros]

I think with machine stitched products you generally get what you pay for.  Mass production and various backyard operations often cut corners, on the other end you have Louis Vuitton who often machine stitch stuff but any product with the smallest imperfection doesn't even leave the factory.  And everything in between of course.

Machine stitching is definitely the way if you're aiming for a profit, but it can also be beautiful and durable if you invest time and money. 

 

[Warhauk]

Thanks for all the advice. I was honestly leaning toward machine stitching because I don't think I would get much enjoyment from my projects while doing them, just knowing I was going to hunker down after to hand stitch for hours to finish the project. My biggest concern was for the projects that already take a lot of time and work. 

Just an example with completely made up numbers (because I don't know currently know pricing or the market or how long things take)

Say I made a really nice saddle and it took me 60 hours with all the carving and detailing involved, not including any stitching. If I value my time at say $10/hr, using some formula that is supposedly a good starting point for prices, (material cost + labor cost) x4 for retail work, I would be charging roughly $2400 at that point. That is ignoring material cost. Now if I took an additional 10 hours to hand stitch it, that would put the cost about $3200.

If I machine stitched it in 1 hour, the price in theory would be $2440.

I'm sure there are a lot of other variables, but in general, would this be the case, $2440 vs $3200 or is it not actually proportional. Like would you actually be charging a lower rate for your time for the hand stitching, or maybe the machine sewing would make the saddle worth even less bc people want their high end artisan pieces to be hand sewn. 

As chrisash said, I'm probably just overthinking it, but it's those nuances that interest me sometimes.

[chrisash]

Just having to" Hunker down" unfortunately many leatherworkers end up offering a relatively small number of styles of goods apart from the tooler's, so if hand stitching puts you off before you start, imagine days spend making belts, wallets, Bags, Chaps, saddles or ?. 

Some are lucky and get requests for various new items but for many its a slog if you work on the same few items that sell well. 

Semi production where you make say 5 instead of just 1 cuts down considerably on time as it does away with all the setup time but can be boring after a while