singer 112 - still not sewing right after shop "timed" it - twice

[CamaroMan]

Hi all - we are pulling our hair (and stitches!) out with this machine. We took it to a local shop and paid them, after the 2nd trip we gave up on them. It still sews great for a few stitches, then skips - Im quite technical but the manual is like a 1930s newspaper and im a VERY technical person and need exact in-falterable details - not a bag of ambiguous "instructions"- 

Please can someone try help us time this darn machine - how hard can it be! I machine engines at my shop - it CANT be that hard. I swung it up and rotated by hand until I could observe the hook piecing the loop and kept making adjustments- but the top arm that swings up and down seems like its in the wrong place- like its going down at thw qrong time slackening the whole tensioning system and messing the sequence up -

 

I have started reading this gr8 thread but still too many variables -  Ill try work thru that in the next few days and if there is anything you want me to video/upload or take not of and post please please let me know how I can help u help me! 

 

Thanks! 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by CamaroMan

[Constabulary]

Skipping stitches are of then the result of a too high set needle bar or hook too far away from the needle. Anyway - it may help when you post pictures of the situation on your machine or post a YT video with some explanations.

Does this 111 manual (Single needle w reverse) help you - maybe? You find mechanics instruction from page 15 onward.

I have the manual in better quality too but I had to compress it to upload it here.

Manual Singer 111G156_compressed.pdf

Edited January 7, 2022 by Constabulary

[Gymnast]

Uwe made a video about timing of this class of machines. It may help you:

EDIT: I just noticed, that you wrote Singer 112 and not Singer 111. Singer 112 got quite many different versions, so I guess you need to specify it a bit more for us.
 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Gymnast

[DrmCa]

Did the shop have the same system needle as you use in the machine when they timed it?

[CamaroMan]

hi all - 112w139 sorry - shop not sure.. Yes I watched uwes vid-

 

ok ill try get something up - if anyone has time for a skype/whatsapp video call to speed things along that would be wonderful! I would DEF make a youtube video going thru all the checks-

 

appreciate the help so far, i just need to find some time to figure out what to even film lol.. 

[kgg]

5 hours ago, CamaroMan said:

i just need to find some time to figure out what to even film

A good start would be a couple of photo's of your thread path from the thread spools to the how you are threading the needles as one needs to be left to right and the other right to left:

1. What size of needle and needle system you are using as it should be a system 126 x 9 or 126 x 3 or 126 x 1 or  FO X 3 Singer manual says 126x9 but the others are an equivalent as per ( https://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=TTE&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=NDL-SYS-SINGER-01 )

2. What size of thread are you using. Max needle size is #24 so that would allow up to V138 in thick / tough material and V207 in thin material.

3. How thick of material are you try sew

4. What material are you sewing, Fabric or Leather

kgg

[CamaroMan]

ok at the machine now- im not so much confused with the actual hook timing but all the other timing- ill shoot a quick yt vid now and try go over the setup-

I would like to make sure the timing marks are correct before attempting hook timing-

 

heres a quick vid-

 

 

 

 

[kgg]

3 hours ago, CamaroMan said:

heres a quick vid

Without the thread threaded through what I notice:

1. The thread guide is not original as their should be two separate thread guides that mount in the holes just above the thread tensioners.

2. Are you following the Singer Manual for timing? If you don't have the manual you can get one here  ( https://www.manualslib.com/manual/364320/Singer-112w139.html#manual )

3. To thread the needle you need to use the thread controller discs closest to you and the thread needs to go throw the hole in the take-up arm closest to you.

4. The spring in the thread controller seems to be at roughly the 7 pm mark and should probably be adjust to the 9 pm position.

5. To do the needle to hook timing slide the cover plate off so you can see the hooks placement in relation to the needle rather then trying to see it from the underside.

A photo of how you are threading from the needle would also be helpful. What system of needles not the size of needle are you are using as this can make a perfectly timed machine to not be able to sew.

kgg

[Constabulary]

Thread guide is not original but should not be an issue cause they were used on the later 212 models as well.

To start with he timing marks - when the timing marks line up the thread take up lever should be it is upper position - can you confirm that?  Read page 21 in the manual I linked above.

Your check spring is too low, there should be a curved rest behind the tension unit held by a screw which you can reach from the right side of the tension unit - see page 15 of the manual.

Also make sure your safety clutch in engaged (if machine has one) - see page 22

Thats what I would start with.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Constabulary

[Gymnast]

I think it will be a good idea for you to sew something easy first until you may have fixed some more serious issues. It could be 2-3 layers of canvas and a Tex 70 thread or something similar. Then I suggest, that you show us a video while you sew very very slow by hand, and with the sliding plate open so we can see the thread over shuttle. One stitch should take about 20 seconds in video. We shall be able to see take-up lever and check spring too.

When the take-up lever go down, the hook is supposed to pull the thread around the bobbin case.

I do not know if this video can help you. It is a video of one stitch on another sewing machine, but it do also have a rotating hook. You see one stitch explained over 17 minutes:

 

[CamaroMan]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:22 PM, kgg said:

Ok - I made a video showing the threading and also the issues - sorry but been superbly busy at the shop and now me and the wife both REALLY need to get this machine working right for our own projects (bikes, cars, boats!)

 

 

 

 

On 1/14/2022 at 2:22 PM, kgg said:

 

Without the thread threaded through what I notice:

1. The thread guide is not original as their should be two separate thread guides that mount in the holes just above the thread tensioners.

2. Are you following the Singer Manual for timing? If you don't have the manual you can get one here  ( https://www.manualslib.com/manual/364320/Singer-112w139.html#manual )

3. To thread the needle you need to use the thread controller discs closest to you and the thread needs to go throw the hole in the take-up arm closest to you.

4. The spring in the thread controller seems to be at roughly the 7 pm mark and should probably be adjust to the 9 pm position.

5. To do the needle to hook timing slide the cover plate off so you can see the hooks placement in relation to the needle rather then trying to see it from the underside.

A photo of how you are threading from the needle would also be helpful. What system of needles not the size of needle are you are using as this can make a perfectly timed machine to not be able to sew.

kgg

 

I will shoot another video with cover plate off showing the hook timing slowly- 

[chrisash]

Not sure about the first tension disk route but the check spring is wrong you need to pull it up and towards the machine so the thread hooks over the notch and then down to the spring (you will notice a  fixed hook type bit at about 11 o clock the thread goes over)

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by chrisash

[CamaroMan]

Here is a slow mo 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by CamaroMan

[Constabulary]

Don`t go over the pin at the tension discs. Some folks do it (for what ever reason) but most don´t. In the manual the thread does NOT go over the pin. Then your bobbin case opener is not correctly adjusted, it does not pull back the bobbin case to make space for the thread to slide between needle plate notch and the small tab on the bobbin case . Reg. skipping stitches I would check the needle hook timing. I assume the needle bar a a little bit to high and / or the hook tip it too far away form the needle. You also have to check the check spring it appears to be set way too low.

Also when starting to sew hold the 2 thread ends slightly tense for 2-3 stitches.

Timing values are in the manual (guess you have one). If not I attach one for the 111G156 the values are the same as for your machine. Sorry its blurry cause I had to compress it. If you need a better quality PDF send me a PM with email address so I can forward it.

 

 

Manual Singer 111G156_compressed.pdf

Edited May 28, 2022 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

Reg. the check spring - check this (extract from the manual)

 

[kgg]

4 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

Reg. the check spring - check this (extract from the manual)

Totally agree with both the thread over the pin, which I have done on my machines with no problems but since you are only using one top thread have you tried using the other tension disc rather then the lower one as the lower one maybe worn and not releasing correctly. I would move the thread controller spring up more to the 9 oclock position.

kgg

[Edsbear]

Hi, sounds like a silly suggestion but is the needle scarf facing the hook?

[trash treasure]

Can you take out the needle plate and feed dog, and show us the needle / hook orientation, when the the hook comes around , and the needle has risen a couple mm?  No need to have thread in it for that - Just so we can see the actual situation.

Just because a local shop worked on it it, doesn't mean they had any clue - I've bought machines that were supposedly, recently "serviced", and they were way out of whack.  Just sayin' ........

[suzelle]

3 hours ago, trash treasure said:

Can you take out the needle plate and feed dog, and show us the needle / hook orientation, when the the hook comes around , and the needle has risen a couple mm?  No need to have thread in it for that - Just so we can see the actual situation.

Just because a local shop worked on it it, doesn't mean they had any clue - I've bought machines that were supposedly, recently "serviced", and they were way out of whack.  Just sayin' ........

Yep, same here. As Trash Treasure mentioned, have paid some big bucks to Repair People who didn't fix something, in fact made it worse.