Leather Needle... or not?

[MtlBiker]

I get it... when sewing leather you use a leather needle and for other fabric you use a regular needle.  But what if you're sewing something like a leather patch (for a pocket) onto waxed canvas?  Does it really matter or make any difference if I stitch it all with a regular needle?  In case the waxed canvas affects the answer, what about if you're sewing the leather onto something like denim?

Am I over-thinking this?

(I'm making the workshop apron that Sailrite just posted a video about, and instead of vinyl pocket they were doing, I'm using a piece of chrome tan leather.)

 

[tsunkasapa]

To simplify, you can use a leather needle on fabric, but you don't want to use a fabric needle for leather.

[fredk]

and sharpen the edges of the leather needle. I find most are blunt and just the point is slightly sharp. Do a few needles and replace every-so-often with a fresher one. Then sharpen  again that replaced one

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, tsunkasapa said:

To simplify, you can use a leather needle on fabric, but you don't want to use a fabric needle for leather.

Thank you.  I guess that makes sense.  For my waxed canvas apron all the stitching so far has been with a fabric needle but I'm about to sew a couple of leather pieces on it.  I'll switch to a leather needle and complete the rest of the stitching with it, leather or waxed canvas.

1 hour ago, fredk said:

and sharpen the edges of the leather needle. I find most are blunt and just the point is slightly sharp. Do a few needles and replace every-so-often with a fresher one. Then sharpen  again that replaced one

I'm sorry Fred... are you talking about a MACHINE leather needle needing to be sharpened?  I guess it wasn't clear from my post, but for this project I'm using a machine.  I've never heard of sharpening a machine needle before.  And harness needles for hand stitching leather don't need to be sharpened.  So I'm a bit confused about what you mean.

 

[fredk]

25 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

I'm sorry Fred... are you talking about a MACHINE leather needle needing to be sharpened?  I guess it wasn't clear from my post, but for this project I'm using a machine.  I've never heard of sharpening a machine needle before.  And harness needles for hand stitching leather don't need to be sharpened.  So I'm a bit confused about what you mean.

yes, a sewing machine leather needle, at least the ones I have, are shaped like glovers' needles, triangular in cross section shape, or like a knife blade, between the eye and the point. Look at the needle under a magnifier.  The edges of that triangle, or blade, should be sharp as should the point. Fabric needles are just fairly sharp as it doesn't take much sharpness to go through 2, 3 or 4 layers of woven cloth because the needle can push through the weave, but a leather needle needs to cut a hole

I just use a very fine sharpening stone to give the needle a few swipes to sharpen it

[Klara]

10 hours ago, tsunkasapa said:

To simplify, you can use a leather needle on fabric, but you don't want to use a fabric needle for leather.

Depends on what type of leather needle we are talking about. My mother always warned me against using sharp leather needles (glover's needles) on fabric because they could cut the threads of the fabric (incidentally, that's why I don't use an awl on leather/textile combinations). On the other hand a pointed fabric sewing needle would increase the risk for puncturing your fingers and splitting the thread when handstitching. And blunt embroidery needles have an eye that's bigger than desirable for leather.

But in a pinch, anything goes! On waxed canvas it's unlikely that a cut thread will pull out (I think, not a material I'm familiar with). You'll have to see whether a blunt needle even pushes through easily...

I'd just try different needles on scraps and would use whatever works. 

[Frodo]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:58 PM, MtlBiker said:

I get it... when sewing leather you use a leather needle and for other fabric you use a regular needle.  But what if you're sewing something like a leather patch (for a pocket) onto waxed canvas?  Does it really matter or make any difference if I stitch it all with a regular needle?  In case the waxed canvas affects the answer, what about if you're sewing the leather onto something like denim?

Am I over-thinking this?

(I'm making the workshop apron that Sailrite just posted a video about, and instead of vinyl pocket they were doing, I'm using a piece of chrome tan leather.)

 

I am not a pro, this is just an opinion from what I have seen

Depends is my answer. depends on the stitch length.  because a fabric needle cuts leather and a leather needle separates fibers  you do not want the holes in the leather close together. So i think a wide stitch length would be oK [ using a sharp needle]   a tight stitch length would weaken the leather making the pocket venerable to be ripped off. 

 

[Spyros]

A leather needle on fabric is not 100% ideal, but you can use it.  But you can't really use a fabric needle on leather, never tried it but I imagine it will probably break sooner or later.

[kgg]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:58 PM, MtlBiker said:

Does it really matter or make any difference if I stitch it all with a regular needle?  In case the waxed canvas affects the answer, what about if you're sewing the leather onto something like denim?

I think you are over thinking this. If you are using a fabric needle to sew the 12 oz waxed and are not having any problems with the seam on the folded over sections of the waxed canvas adding some patches like at the corners with some 2 - 4 oz leather is not going to cause any problems or a pocket. If I am sewing 21 oz canvas I will probably go up a size larger then I can get away with for the size of thread on the needle anyway but haven't had any problems with attaching upholstery weight leather to the 21 oz canvas. Try sewing a scrape of leather in the weight you are planning on using to a double or triple folded piece of canvas as see what happens.

kgg

[chuck123wapati]

Hand sewing or machine? If hand sewing this may be a place for round holes in your leather, for waxed canvas or heavy denim i would just use a  harness needle. 

[327fed]

I use fabric needles in my Consew 225 on leather. I tried leather needles and it would not pick up bobbin thread correctly. I am sure It could be set to sew with these (hook spacing maybe) but it works with these now. 

[Klara]

Funnily enough I just sewed some plastic-coated fabric to leather (by hand) and pre-punched chisel holes and a glovers needle worked best. A normal pointy sewing needle was a lot harder to push through the plastic (there is no way a fabric needle will ever cut leather!) and I didn't even try a harness needle.

[TomE]

For leather sewn to heavy canvas or webbing, a single needle backstitch is used when hand sewing tack. This pattern creates longer stitches on the back/fabric side that gather more threads in each stitch.  It is used to repair horse blanket closures, girth billets, and "rubber reins" that incorporate nylon straps sewn to leather billets.  Creates a durable stitch but the backside is not as tidy as a saddle stitch.