katsass

Dwight ........... ditto

OK, as said, i'm not knocking your work! HOWEVER, If I came out with descritive terms of 'Beautiful', 'Great', 'Very well done!', etc, I'd ruin my image of being the grumpy one! Well, OK, your stitching is pretty damned well done ...even if in the wrong place, and your molding is also quite well done ..... even if I don't care for it ... (just a personal thing) Keep at it, you have the ability to do some damned good stuff ...down the road a bit. As said by Big O, you might look into the modified avenger or the modified pancake. I personally like both of them and I know that you are up to the job for either ...just think them through, take your time and you'll do well. Mike P.S. Check for a PM

IF...it's a cross draw ..... and it ain't going to conceal well eitherl. Mike

FWIW from grumpy again: The keys are: Cased leather, a SHARP - SHARP knife ... AND.... don't get in the way of the blade. (wouldn't get rid of the band-aids either, just because you think you won't get cut.) Mike

From the grumpy one: Just why do you insist on making yourself extra work? Ever since the Civil war folks been making great wearing and working belt holsters with a simple fold-over integral belt loop. Big un's, long un's, little un's, short un's and fancy or plain un's. It just don't make a hell of a lot of sense to me ..... ain't knocking it ....just don't understand it. Mike P.S. You sure that you got cant on that thing right?

OK Guy, again from the grumpy old guy: This is how I learned many years ago, I suspect that not many do it, but it works for me. I rough-cut the shape with a pair of leather shears. I then moisten the leather and transfer my pattern. I then use a swivel knife to carefully cut along the transferred pattern. It makes a nice shallow cut, right on the pattern line, and is easy to follow with my dedicated leather cutter.Then, out comes a 75 yr. old Murphy knife which is SHARP. If necessary, I re-moisten the leather, then follow the swivel knife cut and I'm done, ending with a smooth, clean cut. A pic of my old Murphy knife, You can use a good razor knife instead, also moisten the leather, it will help. Mike

glockinator: Here is a prototype that I have been playing with for a 1911 racegun. Tain't perfected yet ... but it's on it's way. The stand-off and belt loop are where I'm having probs. Mike

OK Guy, in response to you initial question and this response. I make all of my inlaid holsters from two layers of 5/6 oz veg tanned. Actually, that's the way I do almost all of my holsters ... inlaid or not. It (IMO) gives me a lined holster, and also a much more firm and rigid finished piece because of the two layers of grain, which is where the rigidity is created after molding and proper drying. When making your pattern, draw the inlay 'window' on the actual cutting pattern ...don't try to make a separate one and align it with the actual body of the cut out holster .It never will align properly. Realize that you will need to stitch the entire perimeter of the holster to finish it. Cut your 'window' and bevel, then burnish the interior edge. Dye the whole top piece prior to assembly. (You'll not get a decent dye job if you try it after putting it together) Smooth leather like snake, lizard, ostrich shin work well for inlay. Hornback 'gator, and stingray must be sanded down around the perimeter of the inlay piece prior to assembly to get a smooth edge to stitch down. Dry fit the two layers and mark the 'window' on the flesh side of the interior piece. Glue the inlay piece in place and glue the the outer shell to the inner and stitch around your inlay. Finish off as you would normally. Hope this helps a bit, it may not be as others do ... but it works for me. Here's one of mine Mike

FWIW from the grumpy old guy: Eco-flo is water based (personally, I won't use it) ..... so is the satin shene and/or the super shene. When one hits the other (even if the dye is dry) they want to mix 'cause the finish re-moistens the dye. That's especially true if you are applying mechanically (by dauber, cloth, wool skin) Get hold of one of the other suppliers and go to Fiebing's, Angelus or any of the spirit or oil dyes and your problems are over. Or apply your finish very lightly with an airbrush. Personally, I use very little of Tandy stuff. Mike

FWIW: from the grumpy old guy ...... you can use some 'batting' and (although is a bit of a job) give something like snake skin a bit of contour. Mostly for something like a BBQ rig ....probably not too good for a working holster. Mike P.S. This is a 'range' or 'transport' holster ...no belt loop ... and the first padded inlay for me.

Dan, I agree with you as to a safety strap with a pancake holster .....tain't necessary. Actually, I wasn't even thinking of a pancake style when I responded. Most of the desert riders where I live usually carry a wheelgun in a pouch type holster, and request a retention strap. Usually a thumb break. Mike

Well sunny, most men I know that carry a handgun while mounted (other than uniformed officers) usually wear a belt that is as wide as their trousers belt-loops will take, AND is made from two layers of leather. The holsters are usually high riding and incorporate a safety strap of some sort. If you get a chance, take a look at "Packing Iron", a book buy Richard Rattenburry. IMO it is THE book on the progression of holsters and the design thereof, beginning at the civil war and continuing into the '50s and '60s with the advent of the 'MOVIE' leather. It includes a great number of old photos of actual rigs (and the folks that wore them) worm by real working gun toters, versus the movie cowboys .... but it does include our cinema heroes. Mike

Well......I use either 5 strand (cord) or 7 strand (cord). I don't even know what that comes out to in the numbered stuff. If you scrape the end down a bit so as to taper that end, add a bit of bee's wax to get a point, you can get either of them through the eye of a #1 needle ....even with my old eyes (plus glasses). If you don't have it, you might find that Al Stohlman's book on making holsters would probably do you well . At about $12 bucks its well worth it. I have mine from the 1960's, quite worn, but still refer to it now and then ..... most all holster-makers I know have their own cherished copy. It seems a bit antiquated to those of more tender age than I , BUT, the information is basically priceless. Mike

Markush: In answer to your question. On pancakes, I just use 1/2 the thickness of the gun, the trace of the gun on the pattern gives you plenty of space for the thickness of the leather. In fact, depending on the thickness of leather used, you may have to ease the stitch line in a bit for a tight fit. Lighter leather .... closer on the stitch line. Something that after doing some, you'll almost automatically pick up. On the pattern shown (a pouch type holster) there is no stitching along the back. Also, on pancakes you want to follow the contour of the gun quite closely. Hope this helps Mike

Dan, as a sideline....listen to Ferg on the use of a stitching machine. I see the track he mentions, but I know absolutely nothing about those infernal machines .... I hand stitch everything. Kinda go into auto mode as I watch the History channel or Nat. Geo.. Mike

Markush; From the grumpy old man. As to your question as to stitch lines on wheel guns, this is my way for modern wheelguns ..... western rigs are a bit different... First off, autos are usually of equal width from breech to muzzle ... wheel guns aren't .... you need to take this into account. I measure the width of the cylinder and divide by 2. To this I add 1/2 the thickness of the leather used. This will be the distance from the original outline of the gun on my pattern, ie. my stitch line. This line is drawn from trigger guard to the frame at the distance determined AND is continued around the face of the frame to some extent. In other words, roughly follow the contour of the trigger guard and frame .... all of the way around the face of the frame. Draw in pencil and tweak as necessary.Stay roughly close to the actual outline of your pistol, but be aware of where the gun will seat in the leather. From there on its a matter of aesthetics. A revolver should seat in a holster on the face of the frame and/or the face of the trigger guard. Well molded in those areas, the barrel area can be wider and not so tight, as the molded area will not allow the barrel to wander around. Clear as mud ? A couple of pics. Notice that this is not the final pattern, but is the beginnig of the task .... you usually need to tweak a lot more than once. Mike

Well Spinner, that may be true in some cases, however, in many more (IMO) it is that the management has decided to "go green" , even if the items are substandard for the uses that they are intended for. Again, JMHO .... and experience. Mike

Again, Gentlemen, thanks for the notes of appreciation, It kinda softens the heart of a grumpy old man .... for a little bit. Mike

I agree, Shortly after I started in law enforcement we began to carry the old S&W M-19 wheel guns, and a lot of us carried the Hank Sloan style holsters off duty. We then went to the S&W auto's. Some despised them for their departure from the 1911 works... but once you got onto them, they were pretty decent shooters. My son has my original M-39-2, and I still have my M-539. Mike

Shooter, along those lines, I gave my son my first M-39-2 when I bought my 539, (which I immediately modified). That was about '73. A pic of my old 'war horse' The kid (kid hell, he's 37 years old now) still has the old 39-2, shoots it and loves it...... for a 9mm. For wheelguns, he and I both carry .44 Spls. Cannon, that's a very nice looking piece of work, I personally like a modified 'Threeperson' style for my personal open carry holsters, but they aren't too good for concealed work. Mike

Well, again FWIW .......... I very seldom use Tandy anymore. In years past (30 - 40 yrs) They were quite good, Then there was a reconstruction of the company of some sort and I found that much of their stuff suffered in quality, They seem to be working to perk up their image and their stock items in the quality area, but in general, I use other outlets. One such is Springfield Leather. Call them, they have an 800 number, (you can find it right here on LC). they can answer all your questions and are easy to deal with. Along with being very knowledgeable, they're good people. As to learning to live with a grumpy old man, Ma Kat and I were married not too long after I took my first trip to the sun & fun capitol of South East Asia in '63; put up with me for 35 years as a LEO, and now over 7 years retired. Talk about a saint! Mike

Well Shooter, for a S&W 457 you might look into something like this. This is a subcompact .45 with a skeleton hammer that has been smoothed and is a bit smaller than the 457, however, for 457 this type would work quite well. Over the years I carried a number of the S&W alloy framed guns and, as a matter of fact, went to school on them. I was the armorer for our Dept. Personally, I purchased a S&W 539 as the 39 series guns were what we were authorized to carry. I also personally preferred to carry a steel weapon while in uniform ...but they are a bunch more heavy. In plain clothes I often carried one of the alloy frame subcompacts and actually we had very little problem with any of them.This little gun is another one of my carry guns, which has been modified to increase reliability. Mike P.S. The 3/4" at the muzzle end of the holsters in Al Stohlman's book is for a sewn, stitched or laced closed toe holster. You cut them a little closer for an open toe.

From the grumpy one............DITO! Even if I live there. Nick .... Not 'hazing' .... Just taught one to 'adapt'. Mike

FWIW from the grumpy one: A #000 sized harness needle is bigger than a #0 sized one, a #1 sized harness needle is smaller than a #0 sized needle. I use a #1 harness needle on everything (holsters). I use only natural fiber thread (linen), waxed. (No nylon, Dacron rayon etc.) I push my needle through the hole created by my old Osborne1/8' x 1 1/2" awl, grab the projecting needle tip with a pair of small smooth jawed pliers and tug it though. Pull it tight and back toward myself and poke the other needle into the same hole from the opposite side, ensuring that I don't snag the thread from the first needle, pull it through and pull both tight and go on to the next hole. I use 6 SPI. Personally, I feel that if you can tug the thread through by hand, your hole is too damned big. Mike

Shooter, one thing I almost forgot .....(hell, I getting old) you need to shroud (or cover) the hammer on any concealed gun with an exposed hammer. The sharp knurling and just the shape of the thing sticking up there will catch and/or tear any clothing covering the weapon. Back when I was a LEO and teaching working from a concealed holster, guns with hammers tore up a lot of shirts and sport coats. Mike P.S. Notice that there is no safety strap on my holster ... and I carried the same holster for most of the last 10 years of my law enforcement career.