katsass

I keep saying that I need to build a new holster for my 'big' snubby.......I'll get around to it one day, but this old Lew Horton Special is what I carry when booney-bouncing. Mike

Well, I use Weldwood contact cement. ....glue the inlay to the surround and then stitch in place. I wet form almost as a final act.....wet form (mold), dry ..apply oil then a finish. All that a fter stitching in place. This is how my stuff comes out. Mike PS, you might want to make use of a Dremel tool with a grinding stone on it to remove the little calcium nubbins before you try to glue and stitch it down.

OK ........ I think what we have here is a problem of semantics, or, maybe things are showing up out here that are not necessarily showing up in other locations around the country. What I refer to as a sweat shield doesn't appear be what others are calling a sweat shield....like Rayban has a design element to protect against the safety/decocker grinding on him, it 'taint a sweat shield or ANY kind of shield.in my understanding. It's an integral design element to increase the comfort of the wearer. The sweat shield that I speak about is a big honking chunk of leather that covers that whole damned backside of the holstered pistol, and also climbs above (or at least level with) the top of the pistol when it is sitting in place on the belt. It isn't an element designed for the comfort of the wearer and to keep the safety, decocker, slide stop, etc. from chafing, rubbing or abrading the soft chubbies of the wearer, it's there to (ostensibly) keep sweat away from the gun, and, as I initially indicated, it 'tain't worth a diddly damn IMHO. The more I read and/or listen to others from different parts of the world....and even other parts this country.....I find that terminology can, and does sometimes get in the way of understanding just what the hell we are (or at least what I am) talking about. For example, back some time ago I had seen many comments about 'Barbecue Rigs'. I had absolutely no idea what folks were commenting about, I mean REALLY, why does one put on a special shooting rig to go to a BBQ? Is it that rough a congregation of folks....is it that the item designed for the cooker is still a bit reluctant to go on the fire?..... or are those involved holding off invading Artesians. I had no idea, because where I come from out here you just DON'T put on a shooter to show off your leather when you go to a friend's place for afternoon munchies. Now, I think I'll just quit before I put my foot any farther in my mouth. Mike

Sorry about that...you didn't say 'sweat' shield.....it obviously is a useful design factor Mike

OK, after reading the replies sent re: my original comments on sweat guards. it kinda seems that these may be more of a geographical thing than I initially thought. Most that responded somewhat emphatically seemed to originate in the mid-west to the southern part of the country I include Rayban....but ..I don't even actually see anything along the lines of what I consider a sweat shield on the holster for that little Smith. I guess that my major problem with the things are that there is that LESS than remote possibility of getting hold of the shield with the thumb when TSHTF......and efectively stopping a rapid, smooth draw. I have seen all kinds of things happen while on the range AND when things are a LOT more intense. I can STILL see my partner's shooter in between me and a bad guy while I was physically engaged in attempting to keep from getting my butt kicked by the said BIG bad guy (that was not a good day), or how about a left handed shooter getting a poor grip and punching the mag out on the deck while trying to punch holes in a target downrange, or an overly excited young deputy drawing and sticking his firearm out at full arm's length directly in front of him, and finding out that while he is screaming some damned thing at full volume, a bad guy can kick hell out of a screen door and make the young deputy's shooter 'fly' across the backyard, luckily, without going bang! To me, anything that CAN POSSIBLY interfere with the solid and secure grip on your firearm is not a good thing. I guess that that is my main point......and I have seen too damned many bad things happen. I just don't see how the possible comfort aspect outweighs the negative aspects of catching a chunk of leather during the draw. Mike

wookandsteel: That work belt was oiled then a double shot of an acrylic finish was applied. It do get a but toasty out here in the desert, and with the occasional influx of the monsoon moisture from Mexoco things can get downright nasty to go out and work in. Mike

I do just as TwinOaks does.....except that I don't do much (if any) tooling, carving, stamping etc anymore.. Ma Kat likes her cup o tea in the mornings so the stuff is easily available. I brew up a STRONG batch, allow to cool, and dunk the item into the dark stuff, allow to permeate and then into the 'roon. Works great. Mike

I'm quite sure that I don't even own a jug of any black dye any longer. If it's going to be black, it'll get that way with vinegaroon, For other colors I use Fiebing's Pro Oil dyes and some denatured alcohol. I also find i use very little dye full strength any longer, and (possibly) because of this there is little to nothing to buff off prior to sealing/finishing. Mike

Well, being a somewhat slow, grumpy, obtuse thinking, and kind of 'old school' type of individual, I finally actually noticed that there seems to be a fairly recent penchant for holster makers to add a 'sweat shield" to their line of pistol carriers (designed to protect and carry in an easily accessible manner) a chosen firearm for use in that possible instance in which TSHTF. Looking and contemplating (over an adult beverage or two) the actual reasonable application of this addendum to a decent holster, I submit the following: A prime attribute of veg tanned leather is it's ability (affinity?...) to absorb moisture. Just what we want right up next to our chubby 'Luuuv-Handles" in a humid, warm climate, (on the one side)....and our piece of machinery upon which our own existence may depend on the opposite side. Right? The sweaty moisture eases right from a cotton T-shirt (hopefully you are wearing one) into the leather (remember, no matter what, leather 'taint waterproof) and that moisture works right on through to the other side...right to where our life saving shooter is. Now, this isn't just Kentucky spring water oozing through...this stuff leaching through your pores consists of water, oils, minerals, acids and the residuals of that Italian Sausage you munched down as a quick lunch yesterday. The enclosed pics are of a belt worn for just under a year in the desert southwest.......that dark stuff is sweat stain on a plain old work belt. It goes all the way through the belt leather (9/10 oz veg tanned) Now that we can reasonably consider that a chunk of leather may not keep sweat off of our chosen life support system, I decided to look at that chunk of cow skin snuggled tightly next to my undergarment, and between it and my chosen shooter. Well, as said, the moisture from the cotton undershirt is available to wick right into the leather 'SHIELD', and said shield is right up against my life support system, and said nasty bodily fluids can easily leach into the mag release, cylinder release, trigger mechanism...... etc. as the leather is permeated. That shield, after a reasonably short time in a nasty climate....'taint stopping much of anything. OK....lets just slide past all of the preceding....some of you will will anyway...and think about what we do when that time comes.......(ever been there? ..I have) We have our life preserver. (holster is an IWB or OWB.... it doesn't matter) hanging right where we want it. We are attired in our normal manner for concealed carry, T-shirt over the chubbies, holster on a solid platform, shirt, sweater, jacket etc. covering the concealed shooter ....and then all hell breaks loose. Grab for your defensive weapon (to be utilized in a very offensive manner at this point) and .....with the 'shield'....... where does your strong hand thumb go????? Odds are.....10 to 1 you will grab for your shooter, and get your thumb between your t-shirt and the leather shield and damned near rip your trousers off while trying to figure out why the hell that shooter refuses to leave the holster. I spent 15 years as a Police Firearms instructor.(I still teach firearm handling but prefer to work with trap shooters....less stress for me). Worked with wheel-guns , auto pistols, AR's, some damned good anti sniper rifles, and even an old WWII 'M-3 Grease gun (it was a kick...and surprisingly, a pretty damned accurate short range carbine ..once you learn to 'tickle' the trigger). My point is.......If in a very inclement environ, do as we have done for years. Wipe your shooter down completely at the end of shift. Care for it.......it just may allow you to go home for a Friday night fried chicken dinner. To think that a chunk of leather is going to do anything positive is laying your hopes on a pile of damp sand. If the climate isn't that extreme, why have an extra piece of leather hung out there to get in the way anyhoo?? If necessary,go to a stainless weapon in the real bad climates...with proper lube....I know it costs money.....But if you don't believe it's worth your toukus....'taint no skin off my nose. Once wet, allow the leather to dry out completely, then condition it prior to reusing it. This may take the expense of more than one holster....maybe even more than one handgun. Surprise! Finally....rely on the tried and true......gimmicks come and go....(anyone remember the 'guttersnipe?). Take care of your stuff and you have the best chance of going home to play with the kid's mama. Just the thoughts and ramblings of a grumpy old........whatever. Mike .....

FWIW time: On all of my stuff I just use a 50/50 mix of "Mop and Glo" and water ( yeppers, the floor stuff, It's an acrylic just like the 'special' leather acrylics and is a bunch cheaper and ...maybe a bit tougher) I spray (mist) on a light coat with a cheap airbrush....allow to dry, one more shot 'misted' on, and then rub in by hand (no applicator) a bit of Kiwi neutral wax.... Polish to the desired sheen. All of these are done that way. Mike P.S. I refuse to use the ECO-FLO stuff. You are just asking for problems to arise with it. JMHO.

OK Sarge, Vinegaroon, vinegar black, and a couple of other names for the stuff, is a home made substance which uses acetic acid (vinegar) into which ferrous metal is dissolved. I use 0000 steel wool which I torch pretty well to get rid of any and all oil and/or wax. I cut up about 4 pads of the stuff and dump it in a gallon of vinegar. In a couple of weeks you can strain off any residuals and have a jug of nasty looking s#$%$ that turns veg tanned leather black...almost instantly, and all of the way through from front to back. It started as far back as the 1600's...some say earlier, but it is the best black for leather I know of, and without any 'rub-off'. There is a bit more to using it, but that's the basic idea. I personally do not take too well to the crawling type of 'roon'.... seems to me that if you got one PO'd....the damned thing might go fer yer throat! The dilution factor for my use of Oil Dye is 5 parts alcohol to 1 part dye. One of my formula's for (as close as my memory will allow me to put things together) the OLD Russet color of leather that came from the tannery way back when is: 30cc alcohol; 6cc Saddle Tan Pro oil dye; 2 1/2cc Dark Brown Pro oil dye. Squirt it smoothly over the leather with an airbrush and this is what you get. (pic) (one finished and one unfinished) Hope this helps a bit. Playing with mixing and diluting dye can produce a pot load of effects and shades. Mike P.S. That sure as Billy-be-damned 'taint MY hands in the pic of that critter!!!

FWIW from an old grump: First and foremost, I WILL NOT USE any of the 'eco' (water based) dye stuff. Even after the stuff is dry, it'll go to .....pieces... when you go to wet mold a holster. I use nothing but Fiebing's pro oil dye and vinegaroon. I very seldom use the dye full strength......it's usually diluted down by a factor of at least 5:1 with denatured alcohol. I use the crappiest, cheap airbrush Harbor freight sells, just to cover the leather to the tone that I want. I design, mark out, cut and then dye. Then, the absolute secret ingredient!!....... let it dry for a day or so. Get off it, go play in the freeway, nibble mama's neck, contemplate your navel ...do anything, but do not allow yourself to screw with leather that you 'think' is dry. OK, shoe cream and/or polish both contain some form of coloring agent....dye? ...maybe. Try this...polish up your test chunk of leather with Properts, Kiwi or whatever else you have running around the house/shop. I mean put a SHINE on that leather.(it doesn't matter what color, but Ox Blood seems to be a good one with which to make an impression). Wait a day or so to ensure that it's really on there and give it a final buff with a soft polishing cloth. Now go get one of Mama's favorite fine WHITE bath towels and ....buff the living daylights out of your leather with IT. (This, is of course, totally in the spirit of scientific research....make sure Mama knows this) Now, try to explain how you are going to get that color off of her favorite towel.........and I'll bet 'scientific experimentation' ain't gonna do a bit of good. Shoe polish is that...polish. Look at the bottom of the hem on your trousers....depending on the color of your shoes and how often you polish them....that's the color of the trousers hem...from the polish rubbing on it. The stuff will color your leather to an extent...but dye it is not. Best advice I can give is to use the absolute best products you can afford for a given project, (tools included) and TAKE YOUR TIME. The world will not go to pieces if you don't finish you pride and joy today...or tomorrow....but by trying to speed things up with shortcuts and incomplete procedures, your pride and joy may not be quite so much as you wished. I'll apologise if this missive sounds a bit testy. Two weeks ago this morning my Doctor told me to stop smoking or I'd be in the hospital within 48 hrs and he'd 'TRY' to keep me breathing. I've smoked for over 50 years....2-3 packs a day. After he loaded me up with different steroids and meds, I left his office and tossed every cigarette out into the trash. Haven't had one since. BUT, I'm up at 2:00 in the morning, I cant sleep, I'm grumpy, fighting the wants, an nibbling on anything in sight.....(i even tried a Lychee,..... whatever that hell that is....didn't like it much) and doing my best not to irritate Ma Kat....(to irritate her is NOT a good idea). So, again, if it sounds like a grumpy old man wrote this....one did.....but maybe I have an excuse Mike

Denster, you done good!!!! Those were good little holsters, except that the elastic gave up too soon...With the newer stuff out now it may prove to really be the 'katsass" LOL Keep it up...lots of good ideas from the past may work out better with the new technology. .mike

Thanks Nick...It'll be going out this Friiday or so, to go off to auction in early August. But .....my doctor wants one similar to this for his Springfield Armory XD so it won't be the last branded holster I do. I'll send you a pic of it when I get it finished. POPO (HEY, don't think too hard about the name thing....He's my grandson !!!)

Well, Big O has pretty much covered everything...except maybe that the mag release is covered in leather...not too good an idea. Personally. I don't care to see much boning inside the trigger guard, but that's just the rantings of a grumpy old man.....maybe. Mike

I gotta agree buddy.....if a customer of mine orders something that specifically states in my description that it consists of a large chunk of 'Great Grey-green Greasy Limpopo'...well, he gets a large chunk of Great Grey-green Greasy Limpopo. It's only the proper thing to do..,.Kinda like 'hand sewn' items.....to me that doesn't mean that an operator fed the leather into the foot of a machine. To me that means my old awl, two needles, a piece of thread and (for me) a pair of smooth jawed pliers. I say sell what you advertise and honestly describe it. Mike

Even the grumpy old katsass got one ...and likes it! If I can locate the right motor with a 1/2" threaded shaft, a good chuck will go on it and a 'permanent' burnishing station will be created.....just because of this little goodie. Thanks Spinner

RWS....Good looking pinch book, nicely done. I built a few back when, haven't done one in a looong time. I now stick with holsters mainly. As a side note, my original badge # with the first Dept. I was with was with (way back when) was ........23. Mike

Well, you have nothing NOT to be proud of. The holster is a good design, and it's obviously functional. A little tweaking here and there is all it will take. As you get better at things, keep that puppy around as a reminder of how we all start. Yours, I would say, is starting off better than many others. Mike

George, great piece of work, I think you are on to the reason the holster is a bit different in color. Bellies seem to take dye differently than backs or shoulders from the same hide. FWIW, Bellies seem (to me) to also be a bit 'softer' that either the back or shoulder. I use backs for heavy 'historically correct' stuff and shoulders for most of my other holsters. By the way, it's a bit large for me, but as a southpaw, I can appreciate it. Mike

JC, one thing to remember is, that if you ask three different leather workers how they do something, you are liable to get four different answers. We all work out the ways to do things in our own manner, with tools of our choosing that work for us. Most folks start with Tandy stuff, but if you Google Springfield leather Co, I think you will find stuff in there that will far outdo Tandy. You might want to order their catalog, it has a lot if informational tidbits in it ...even if you don't purchase from them. Just keep at it and, learn from the mistakes that will come. They are learning tools and make the grey matter work. The directions given are how I do things......others may work a little differently. Also, never be afraid to give a wild idea a go, at worst, you learn what not to do, and also don't be afraid to make mistakes....we all do. I just tossed a holster style that I have done for years into the scrap bin. Somehow it just wasn't working out correctly. Last evening I cut the same pattern I drew for the first one, and everything fell into place.....I wasted a bit of leather (maybe) but my advice is that if something isn't feeling right......get off it. Maybe later you can modify what you did and salvage something useful. Hope you guys are finally drying out down there. I was at the Naval Air Training Command in the very early '60s. I've seen it rain, snow and get warm and toasty....and humid. I swore that, if, in the spring, a person stood still for too long, something green would grow on you. As I say, I now live in the desert. Our summer time humidity is in the single digits. Wall Doxey State Park wasn't official, nor actually open when I was down that way, but the Navy and Marine Corps were allowed to go there periodically as a sort of a test prior to going into operation. A buddy of mine and I found a net sack full of quart bottles of a "clear liquid" hanging from a rope, down into the water back in the Cyprus trees on our first trip down there.......we left it. Mike

Good afternoon Wareagle, You know where your weak points are, and are taking measures to rectify and improve on them. But, I might suggest one thing. Bring the wings in as close as possible to the gun. The wings are only on the rest of the holster to provide a place for the belt slots. The wings do not provide anything else. The width of them just uses up leather, and the strength is only that little piece of stuff from the edge of the slot to the closest outer edge of the wing. Also, the wider the wing, the more tendency there is for the gun to want to 'lean out'. The closer the slots are to the gun, and the more leather there is between the slot and the edge of the wing will provide for a holster that retains a close, tight fit to the wearer much longer. JMHO from the grumpy old man. Now, please don't think I'm putting your work down, you are on your way, you're learning, just keep it up. Mike

Bill, you are correct in the definitions as you show, however in leather, the two holsters that I show are considered to be first, constructed with an 'inlay of ostrich shin leather and the second, constructed with an 'inlaid backing for and attached arrowhead'. Metal inlay and filigree are as noted, and in wood, inlay, marquetry and filigree are also as noted.. In leather we kinda 'borrowed the term 'inlay' vs 'overlay' to differentiate the two forms of attaching a contrasting color and/or texture of leather within a piece. Mike

Good morning to you both, and thanks for the kind words re: my work. I'm very small time in that I do only custom work, molded to the individual customer's gun and to his(her) wants and needs. On top of that I'm old and just may want to go fishing or shooting trap, and I don't want to 'have' to do something in a hurry. (nobody actually expects an old man to do anything in a hurry.) JC, I have done very little filigree work, but what little I have done varies very little from inlay.....but it's touchy, so take your time!! As you say, "think stained glass". A good tool to use is an X-Acto knife with various widths of chisel point blades. Carefully cut you pieces out straight down, VERTICALLY (on inlay I do the same, but use an edge cutter on the inside after cutting...then burnish those edges.. NOT on filigree.... also, the outer shell is usually a lighter leather on filigree work than on inlay) You need to ensure that there are no 'free-standing' parts in the design, ie: the design must be attached to the shell in a few places around the outer edges of the design and nothing inside can be standing alone. These 'attachments' can be quite narrow.....but keep them symmetrical. Gluing up is touchy, be careful to not allow any glue to smear or show on the inlay (the contrasting piece under your filigree cuts, suede in your case.) My method of doing this was to apply a contact type of cement over the entire flesh side of the cut-out area in the shell, and around the periphery of the design. Allow this to dry only to the point that it is not wet enough to smear..... just tacky, and ensure that there are no 'blobs' of glue. It must be smooth, but still moist. Lay that down on the suede (or vicey-vercy) in one shot......don't move it! Wait a minute or so then roll it down with a wallpaper roller or your Ma's good rolling pin. (That adds excitement to a project) NOW.....walk away from it for about a half hour....go wash your hair, have a brew....do ANYTHIG to keep your grubby mitts off of it. Now, finally, you can now turn it over and see what you have created. There should be no glue showing and no curled edges. This whole thing must now be applied to the inner liner of your holster. Notice that on filigree work there is no stitching holding the 'lead' of the 'stained glass' down. This makes the filigree work a little less durable than inlay work......but can be very striking! As to how I work. I cut all pieces out, dye them as necessary and allow to dry. I live in the desert and overnight is long enough out here. I then sand and burnish free standing edges (mouth of the holster and the belt loop, if a standard belt pouch.) Stitch the belt loop down then stitch the main 'seam' after gluing in place and sanding to fit. With an 'inlay' of suede, I would mold the holster by inserting a warm (not hot) wet (more than damp, less the soaking) clean wash cloth into to holster, allow to to moisten the leather inside. You may need to do this a couple of times...what you do not want to do is get the suede wet. Then mold to your weapon. As to trying to dye your lace, it most likely will not work. Almost all lacing has a finished surface that prohibits the dye from working satisfactorily. Notice that as said before, no stitching holds down your filigree work, just glue. HOWEVER, since the holster will be made from layered leather, all edges must be stitched down. That is around the mouth and (if opened toe) the toe. Look at the two pics I sent earlier, the top one is open toe, the bottom is closed toe. There is a difference, HOWEVER, you can lace all edges instead of stitching, I have done a few this way also. For stitching however, I use and old Osborne saddler's awl that is most likely older than you. It's about 1/8" wide and 1 1/4" long. I mark my stitch line with a #6 overstitch wheel. A good size for most holster work. I use waxed linen thread, generally 'natural' color. I use #1 sized needles. Frankly, I usually don't get much of anything from Tandy anymore......back in the 60's their stuff was pretty good, they seemed to have slipped in the current times. I get most of my supplies from Springfield Leather Co. (google them) You can call them on their 800 number with damned near any question re: leather work, and get assistance and an honest answer. I enclose a pic re: stitching leather. This is from Al Stohlman's book "HOW TO MAKE HOLSTERS" and is an excellent 'go to' book for most questions on basic holster construction. It is well worth the $12 or so to get it. I got mine in the early 60's or so, and still look at it from time to time. Hope this is a little clearer than mud and gives you a bit of help. The one thing I'd recommend is: SLOW DOWN, TAKE YOUR TIME and think through each step before you jump. You might want to practice a little on some scrap before jumping in........you'll be better pleased with the finished product......ask me how I know. Mike

JC, I do a bit of inlay type work on a holster now and then, but reading your query .............you have me totally confused. Maybe this will help.This is kinda how I do things, sorta. On (in) the piece which will be the, outer shell of the holster, I cut out the area, design, spot, etc. in which I will see my inlay. (The outer shell is dyed prior to the cutting). I burnish the inside edges of this 'window'. I run a stitching gouge closely around the the outside edge of the window, and mark the stitch spacing with an overstitch. I cut my inlay of suede, snake skin, ostrich, skin of the oft used but never seen nauga, etc. so as to be about 3/8" to 1/2" larger than the previously cut 'window'. I turn my outer shell over with the flesh side up and CAREFULLY glue the inlay (also flesh side up) into place. I turn that puppy over and commence to punch holes and stitch all around the edges of the window, design, spot, or what ever you want to call it. You now have your inlay properly in place and secure. I now cut the lining piece which will back-up the inlay and also provide a smooth interior for your holster. Remember....it is a mirror image of the shell. I glue the lining in place (flesh sides together) and trim as necessary. I burnish all edges other than the main seam, welt, or whatever you want to call it. I stitch all of these edges. I then fit and glue the main seam, welt etc. in place and stitch. I fine sand that edge and burnish. All that's left to do is apply a finish. If you use suede, it will have to be completely covered to make sure your finish does not get onto that fuzzy stuff. To me, if you can't stitch all edges of your cut out pattern, you probably have a pattern which is too detailed for the inlay......although I have seen some pretty detailed inlay work. Think smaller needle and thread. Hope this helps. Here are a few pics of some recent inlay pieces that I have done, probably not as detailed as you are thinking. Mike, the grumpy old man