Wizcrafts

On what machine are you going to install the edge binders? What type of binders do you intend to use (single fold, double fold, straight on, or right angle)? What type of material and thickness will the edging be? Do you have a proper feed dog and matching throat plate that holds each binder, or do they just screw onto the bed of the machine and use the standard feed dog and plate?

Prior to getting a Cowboy CB4500 (16.5" arm), I used a Union Lockstitch machine to sew holsters. They can sew 3/4 inch out of the box and have a jump foot and needle feed. Related, are the Campbell-Randall lockstitch machines, which have jump feet and awl feed. But, I would not recommend these machines to anybody without lots of experience with setting up, adjusting and rebuilding sewing machines. A 441 clone is so much easier to run and maintain. It will have triple (compound) feed, a smooth feed dog and is able to sew over 3/4 inch with very heavy thread. It is a holster maker's machine, no doubt. See the ads on the top of the page for our supporting dealers who sell and service these big leather stitchers.

The older the machine, the less likely it is to have reverse. And no, you cannot reverse wheel the machine to sew backwards. If you want a cylinder arm machine with reverse, buy something more recent (last five years or so). A Consew 227R, or clone, is exactly what you are looking for.

Yes. They are basically the same type of mechanism and design. The 3200 just sews less thickness (1/2") than the 3500 and larger. They all share the enormous throat plate cutout and feed dog. You would probably be better off with a CB341 that Toledo Industrial is just starting to sell. I haven't seen one yet, but he says they are clones of a Juki LS-1341, but less than half the cost of a Juki.

Lol; you just responded to a topic that has been dormant since 2009; six plus years ago. Still, the question is valid. You want to know if a "441 clone" can be used to sew wallets, as well as holsters. As the owner of a Cowboy CB4500 I can tell you that they can, if you make several important adjustments first. These are huge, heavy duty sewing machines that are built from the ground up to sew harness, holsters, sheaths, saddles and heavy straps, bags and cases. The current crop are able to clear and sew up to 7/8 inch of leather, using a needle the size of a roofing nail. They are normally adjusted to properly tension thread that is a half millimeter in diameter (#277), which usually requires at least 1/4 inch of leather to conceal the knots. The tension, pressure and check springs are extremely heavy duty, which this thickness of thread calls for. In order to convince a 441 type machine to sew nicely into 4 to 6 ounces of wallet leather takes all of the following changes: Replace the usual #25 system 794 leather point needle with a #19 system 7x3 round point needle, which is the smallest size normally stocked and sold in the US and Canada for 441 machines. Re-thread the top and bobbin with #69 or possibly #92 bonded thread. The 441 machines are normally sold with #277 thread, which is 4 times thicker. Tighten the bobbin tension spring to get some back pressure on the bobbin thread (but not so much that it puckers the bottom leather). A bobbin set for #277 will just let #69 thread flow with zero tension. Back off the top tension to balance the knots inside the leather. If you find it impossible to get the knots to sink below the top, it may be due to how the top thread is fed from the spool to the top tension disks. A direct path through the top post is usually called for with tiny thread, as opposed to the once around with heavier thread. If you still cannot lower the knots into the leather, the check spring tension will need to be backed off. It is normally set to stiff action to maintain tension of heavy thread. After all these adjustments, if the leather on the bottom is fairly soft and gets pushed into the huge hole in the feed dog, or the equally huge cutout in the throat plate, you will need to remove them and replace the throat plate with an optional narrow slotted plate (and no feed dog). The top pressure will need to be backed way off. The amount of alternating height of the feet may need to be reduced The point of impact of the inside foot will have to be reset to equal the tip of the needle at the surface of the thin material. Otherwise, the reverse stitches probably won't match the forward stitches. Those are the typical changes needed to get a 441 clone to properly sew thin leather. They will need to be reversed to sew thicker leather, with thicker (normal) thread.

Thread bunching up under the material could be caused by any of the following problems: The top thread is not going around the center of the upper tensioners, thus, there is no top thread tension. The top thread is going around the center of the tensioners, but they are being kept separated by the presser foot lifter mechanism. Same result; no top tension. Is your presser foot lifted up as you sew? It should be all the way down against the material. Check for binding of the presser bar. The bobbin thread is jammed in the bobbin case, or under the bobbin tension spring. The needle is much too small for the combination of top and bottom threads. The needle must make a hole wide enough to allow the lockstitch "knot" to be pulled up into the material. The shuttle has been moved slightly out of time with the needle. The hook must arrive at the center of the scarf, above the eye of the needle, as it is ascending and has formed a loop. The needle is in backwards, or is incorrectly aligned. The feed dog (in your case) is not able to advance the material properly (against the force of the presser foot), resulting in lots of thread going into the same hole or holes. The stitch length regulator is set at zero. Same result as above.

As a last resort, you could import bonded nylon thread made in Canada, duty free I imagine. The company is Cansew and they produce every type of thread you could want. I used to buy their bonded nylon thread, in matching colors, in sizes 46 through 346 (fewer colors in 346).

The only leather items that are sewn with such tiny stitches (12/inch and smaller) are cowboy boots, where the fancy stitching designs are sewn onto the uppers before assembly. These are sewn with very slim thread, like #33, which is half the size used in upholstery. You may want to reconsider if these machines are specifically set up for tiny stitches and can't be easily changed to the more common 5 to the inch.

It looks like the OP requested info about thread for sewing machines, not hand sewing. In my experience, lockstitch machines, other than hook and awl types, break unwaxed linen thread way too easily. Waxed linen thread fowls the moving and tensioning parts and clogs the eye of the needle in standard closed eye needle machines. I think most who have tried it will agree that it is best to stick to bonded nylon or bonded polyester thread in leather and canvas sewing machines. If you must use Barbour's Irish Linen thread in a lockstitch machine, back off the top and bottom tensions to the minimum that will lock the stitched inside the material. Keep a threading device handy to remove the wax from the eye of the needle.

I once owned a Juki LU-563. It is a very good compound feed walking foot machine, if properly cared for and set up. If you tweak the bobbin case opener you might be able to use #207 on top and #138 in the bobbin. It should sew up to 3/8 inch of material, with up to a #24 (leather point) needle. The machine is manually oiled and should be kept lubricated. $500 with a servo and in good working condition? Buy it, but see it sew first.

I don't normally recommend dual feed machines for leather work, if any of it involves veg tan that will hold the tooth marks. It is best to stick with triple feed walking foot machines. Smooth feet for the Rex 188 are as rare as hen's teeth. If you do find a set they may cost a fair amount. It would be cheaper to fill in the metal between the teeth, with liquid steel, or some other permanent compound, or braze bronze into the valleys and grind it smooth. This will effectively render the machine as single, bottom feed, with what amounts to a follow foot.

That is a Singer 29 class patcher. I can't see the brass ID tag on the body, but it will tell the actual sub-model. My guess is that it is a one hundred year old 29-4. This machine is known as a shoe patcher. It's job was sewing uppers on boots and shoes and sewing patches onto leather vests and onto jacket sleeves and over pockets. It can only really handle #69 bonded thread. They are top feed machines that feed the work in any direction. This is done by clawing the work with teeth on the foot. The bobbins are the diameter of a US nickel and don't hold very much thread. The stitch length on a factory quality patcher was only 5 to the inch and that occurred at about 1/8 inch. The stitches get shorter as the thickness increases. The maximum they can sew is about 1/4 inch or a tish over. Unfortunately, the moving parts that determine stitch length wear out over time and extended use. A worn out patcher may only be able to sew 8 stitches per inch. If the machine is being sold as the head only, minus the fitted cast iron base, it is only worth about $200, if it sews and isn't missing any parts. If the shuttle is rusted out, or missing, expect to spend about $40 to replace it..Bobbins are about .75 each and a threading rod may cost you up to $10. Some of the driving gears under the arm are no longer made. If the bobbin winder assembly is missing, a used replacement could cost almost $50. If you know anybody who has a Singer patcher, try to take them with you to look over the machine. It could be a diamond, or a stone.

Domestic sewing machines lack the clearance, motor power and compound feed system to move leather along equally on the top and bottom, over over changes in thickness that easily exceed 3.2mm (1/8 inch or 8 ounces). They do not accept industrial needles that are available in much larger sizes, like 200 (US/Singer #25). Further, they cannot properly tension and control thread that is stronger than what we know as upholstery size 69, or Tex 70. Many domestic machines cannot even tension that size thread. Lastly, many domestic sewing machines can only sew very short stitch lengths, which can weaken the leather if too close together. Of course, this depends on the size of the needle and thread. People who sew fancy stitching onto shoe and boot uppers use tiny stitches and tiny needles and thread. This is a whole other field than typical leather sewing done by most here. Therefore, I categorize domestic sewing machines as NOT being leather sewing machines at all. This doesn't mean that they cannot be used to physically sew some type of leather, with some type of thread, at often tiny stitch lengths. As for your second question, about needle sizes, this may or may not be the case. Sometimes, different machines use the same needle "system." They would share needles in any size. But, if you have three sewing machines, all capable of accepting a #200 (US 25) needle, they might use different lengths and systems of needle. You could easily end up with your Singer 29 patcher that requires system 29x3, 29x4, 135x16, or 135x17 needles, a Pfaff walking foot machine that requires system 190 needles, a Singer 45K that uses system 328 needles and a 441 clone that uses system 794 needles. Your question involved a #200 needle. This refers to the diameter of the shank that penetrates the material. The length top to bottom and diameter of the top of the shank varies with needle system. The system describes a needle profile. The "number" defines the diameter of the business end. As for those #200 needles, your shoe patcher will probably not sew with that size. It is just too wide and may be damaged by the hook on the shuttle. Patchers, like your hundred year old 29-4, should not be fitted with such a large needle. It is simply not built to use large thread and needles. There will be problems if you try. Most upholstery machines will accept up to a size 180 (#24), and may even accept a #200 needle (depending on the type of hook and shuttle system and clearances), without breaking something, but not the thread it is matched to. A #200 needle is best used with US #277 (Tex 270) bonded nylon or polyester thread, top and bottom. This thread has a diameter of almost 0.5mm. Most sewing machines cannot pass it around the shuttle and bobbin. In contrast, machines that are built to handle large thread, like sizes 277 and up, and needles over size 180 (US #24), don't do so well with thinner thread and needles. Just my observation.

My first industrial sewing machine was a 96k40. It was one sub-model before this and lacked reverse. If I didn't already have a 31-15 I would buy your 96k41, just to have one.

I classify the 29-4 as a light to medium duty leather sewing machine, meant for sewing shoe and boot uppers and patches on leather vests. It uses needles up to size 130 or 140, but usually we equip them with no more than a #110 needle. The 45k25 is a heavy leather sewing machine, meant for harness, saddle parts, holsters and other hard leather items. It is usually equipped with a large roller foot. It uses large and long needles (sizes 160 through 230) and can handle thread sizes T135 through T350. This is way beyond the capacity of the 29-4, which is limited to about T70 thread. The Singer 45k is sort of the forerunner of the Adler 105. It is a bottom feed machine. The Singer 29 series are top feed machines.

By Consew, in Indo-China

Here you go!

In my first reply in this topic I alluded to this very issue. The outside presser foot bar (aka: "presser bar") is binding when lifted beyond a certain height. This can be caused by any of the following things. Check the chain feeding down to the lift pedal to see if the links are binding, or if the S hook has bent over the tab on the floor pedal. Check the rod along the back from the chain end to the left side of the head for binding. Make sure the separator tab is not binding on its shaft, or jamming in the thread guide loop behind the top tension disks. An off-center hole in the top pressure adjuster, over the presser bar. Turn the adjuster slowly and see if the bar drops at a particular amount of rotation. If so, enlarge the hole a bit. This happened to a couple of 441 machines I've worked with. A bent presser bar. You would have to completely remove the parts in front of the bar and remove it, then roll it on a flat table. If it really is bent, try straightening it. Or, replace it. This is unlikely on a newer machine. Is the lifted outside foot jamming against the inside foot? If so, reposition the inside foot to clear the outside toes. If the inside foot was facing true forward already, the outside foot toes might be misaligned. The presser bar that holds the outer foot is secured with one or two set screws. Loosening them allows you to rotate the bar. This may clear the binding. The crank arms inside the faceplate connect both the inner and outer feet. The slightest misalignment can cause binding, as can a lack of oil on those parts. I recently serviced a 441 machine that had a binding presser bar. The owner didn't know about opening the faceplate to oil internal moving parts. It took a long time to free them and remove the rust.

Vinyl fabric, like many types of leather, is basically sticky on top (except the glossy finish types). It drags under the presser foot, causing the top layer to move out of alignment with the bottom layer. Your stitch length may be shorter than expected and inconsistent.This is bad, because most Class 66 machines don't normally have stitch lengths much longer than 7 or 8 to the inch. You may end up filigreeing the vinyl if the drag is too great. Moving along, the presser foot lift is maybe 1/4 to 5/16 inch. The even feed (so-called walking foot) attachments usually waste at least 1/8 inch of that clearance, leaving you with just over 1/8 inch sewing height. I think that a roller foot would work better. The thread handling capacity is no more than #69 (T70) bonded nylon or polyester. The needle size for that thread is either #16 or #18. A standard sharp point needle will sew vinyl, as will a leather point. You would do well to get a 1.5 amp motor, foot speed control, new drive belt and wiring for sewing vinyl, or denim. It has more than double the punching power as the original. Figure on about $75 to $100 for those items. Forget the attachments. They were meant for sewing light cloth. The only attachment you will probably need is an adjustable edge guide and thumb screw. If the machine faults at sewing vinyl, you can use it to hem your pants and lady's dresses, which is what it was built to do.

Bottom has loops. This can be caused by the top thread lifting out of the payload area of the upper disks, by the top thread getting jammed as it passes around the bobbin case and shuttle, or by the bobbin binding inside the bobbin case. Advanced timing can lead to snapping of the top thread due to excessive tension from a small loop.

If that photo shows the top of the leather and the bobbin tension is steady (not jammed or jumpy, yet not loose), then something is jamming the top thread along the path. Watch your top thread from the spool to the upper disks. Does it twist hard and possibly get caught over, under, or around something (including the thread spool itself)? Is it wrapped twice around the lower disk, then up through the eyelet, then through the check spring loop, up to the take-up lever, down through two guides and the hole in the top of the needle mount? Is the scarf cutout in the needle facing to the right? Is the needle all the way up? More things to check are: does the presser foot move all the way up and down when you lift it with the foot lifter? Does it release the top disks when fully lifted and engage them when lowered? It should do these things. If not, something is binding in the presser foot mechanism. It could be the chain that feeds down to the pedal. Handwheel the machine through some leather with the end cover off. Watch the top thread as it gets pulled around the bobbin case. Does it make a snapping sound as it passes the edge of the shuttle, as it lets go? Top thread getting stuck going around the bobbin and shuttle may be resolved by slightly loosening the two spring loaded screws that secure the shuttle race to the end of the machine. I usually run mine backed off about 1/2 turn. Over...

There is an interior adjustment to match the stitch lengths, probably on the undercarriage, but I don't know exactly where it is. Call or email a Juki dealer, or the dealer who you bought it from.

I worked for a friend in his leather shop and he had a similar machine. It pulled like a son of a bitch, but marked the leather pretty deeply. Other than that, it didn't match the capacity of the compound feed machine I had at home. Both were National brand machines. I believe you will be better served by a regular compound feed machine, like the Consew 206RB-5.

The 205 has top and bottom feed, with teeth on the presser foot. It is primarily a vinyl and cloth sewing machine.

Venator; There are several industrial sewing machine dealers in Toronto, most of whom know Adler machines inside out. Techsew is a division of Raphael Sewing in Montreal and is one of our advertisers. However, I think you should return to the check spring assembly and try again to loosen up the sliding stop bracket on the bottom that acts as a spring travel stopper. Most machines that have that type of check assembly secure the movable stop bracket with a screw on the lower right side. This is separate from the screw that secures the entire assembly to the hole in the body of the machine. That screw lets you turn the assembly, which either loosens or tightens the action on the check spring. You will probably want to tighten it to get the full amount of travel, as limited by the stop bracket under the spring. Where did you buy your Adler? Have you tried contacting the seller for help?