Wizcrafts

If your machine was setup to place the knots in the center of a 1/2 inch stack, when you sew a 1/4 inch stack the knots would be too high with the same tension adjustments, thread and needle.

That's not too bad. Just back off the top tensioner a half turn and see if the knots drop down a little more between the layers. When you received the machine, how thick was the stack of sewn off leather under the foot? Was it sewn off with the same needle and thread as you used in your example?

Also, can you see anything on the outside-rear side of the machine that is preventing the lifter rod from moving down at the back end and up at the front? Is it perhaps binding on the big pivot bolt holding it to the machine? Is the lever that separates the top tension disks jamming the lifter due to not being placed squarely on the round stud on the lifter, near the front of the machine? Or, might that disk separator be jammed against the thread guide by the top tension disks?

Okay, the problem lies between the lifting bar and the presser bar. You'll have to remove the faceplate to troubleshoot this. If it is held on with two bolts, remove the top thread, loosen the bolts holding the faceplate to the left side and pull the plate off. Lie it down with the inside face down, so the bolts stay put. With the face plate off, locate the presser bar, which is the rear most bar that goes down to the outer foot. It's downward pressure is controlled by a hollow threaded adjuster screw directly on the top of the head, with the presser bar protruding from the hole in the adjuster. Loosen the locknut on the adjuster and unscrew the adjuster, then remove the pressure spring that surrounds the presser bar. The presser foot and bar should now be movable with your fingers. You will find a solid metal block inside the head, screwed onto the presser bar. When you engage the hand lift lever (with the ball knob), the block will move up. Note the distance between the bottom of the block and the crank on the end of the foot lifter rod. Move the rod and see what is blocking it from lifting up the block as the hand lifter does (but higher). When you see what is wrong, loosen whatever screw is holding it too far down and free it. Lower the hand lifter and push down on the presser bar on top of the head. Reposition the lifting piece on the foot lift mechanism until it is just under the lifting block. Tighten that piece in place. Reinstall the pressure spring and adjuster, hook up the chain if you had removed it and test the foot lift pedal. It should move freely and lift the feet almost as high as the fully raised tip of the needle. I'm not at my shop and cannot give you any better help without opening up my CB4500 and hoping the parts are the same as your machine. My terminology is just user terms, not technical labels from a parts manual. If in doubt, post some close up photos of the presser bar and the parts mounted to it, inside the head, with the faceplate removed.

Thread #277 is very close to .5mm in diameter. It takes at least a #24 needle to pass that thickness freely. In practice, the hole a #24 needle makes is sometimes a bit too narrow to bring the knot from the bottom thread well up into the bottom layer. It depends on how dense the bottom leather or material happens to be. So, most of us with a 441 type machine will use a #25 needle, which definitely pokes a wide enough hole for both the top and bottom thread to move as required. The relationship between various needles and thread is demonstrated on the needle and thread chart on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website. You can use it to select the best needle for any given size of thread in common use.

I'd be following the path from the chain, to the pivoting long rod on the back of the machine, to the place where it makes contact with the lifter block that raises the outside "presser" foot. If the block is set too high, the presser foot bar may not be getting lifted by the floor pedal. If the hand lifter releases the thread tension but not the foot pedal, that is most likely what is wrong.

Think of the bottom roller as a kind of momentum brake. The stroke of a 441 machine is very long and quite violent at at the moment the take-up changes direction. Without some type of damping, the top thread could develop slack fro shock in the wrong places resulting in unpredictable thread binding hassles. As the thickness of the thread increases, the affect that the bottom roller has increases. It can add to the overall top tension due to friction between adjoining windings. The bottom roller disks also maintain a smooth flow to the check spring.

Why not just use a larger size needle and thread to start with? My CB4500 can handle up to #415 thread. That is almost 1mm in diameter.

It looks a lot like my 29k172, except mine is blue and made in Japan.

Cleanview; Make sure you stock multiple sizes of needle for your machine. Use #23 leather point with #138 thread. Use a #24 with #207 and a #25 with #277 thread. Using the smallest needle that allows the thread to feed smoothly also produces a tighter stitch. Conversely, if you have trouble bring the knots up into the leather, one size larger needle pokes a wider hole and the knots have less competition from the leather itself. FYI: Generally speaking, there are no leather point needles for the 441 clones under size 23. That's not to say nobody produces them. They are just not commonly stocked by dealers. That means that you will have to use regular "round/sharp" point needles for sizes 22 and under, to sew with thread sizes under 138. They produce more friction inside leather and lay a slightly different stitch line.

Try Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. I bought some parts there for my patchers (more modern models though). Also, try Techsew, in Montreal, or Keystone Sewing.

Sometimes, when one is burdened with an ancient sewing machine like Gunz has, the best way to obtain replacement parts for worn or missing ones is to buy another identical machine in working condition. This is especially true of the ancient 29-4 or earlier model patchers.

JLS is right. The lifter chain on my machine is inside, between the axle and the body. Make sure that with the arrangement you now have that the chain allows the foot to go all the way up and all the way down. The crank that the chain attaches to on top must not be interfered with by the axle. The floor lift pedal should go all the way down, starting with the heel down. There should only be a small amount of free motion before the lifter engages and begins lifting the foot. The maximum lift is supposed to clear the bottom of the needle. Sometimes that doesn't quite happen. It only becomes an issue if you need to sew 7/8 inch of leather. If the foot lifter chain twists, or makes a sharp angle from the hole in the base, it could bind. Keep the links in line with each other and try to maintain the straightest line feeding up.

I thought that the rod in the back looked engaged. Let the foot down all the way. If it binds, twist the top adjuster to free it up. The lowered presser lifter should allow the outside to to go all the way down to the throat plate.

If the threads in the flywheel are stripped, rather than the steel screw, you'll either have to re-tap them oversize and find a new matching set screw, or force some liquid thread repair into the threads, let it harden, and tap them to the original metric size. If that doesn't work, a replacement flywheel can be purchased from Techsew.

I will photograph the top tension area of my CB4500 Monday afternoon, when I go back into my shop. It is obvious that the disks are being held open when they shouldn't be. A couple of side shots of a normal setup should help the OP figure out if something is just assembled wrong, or bent. First, that crank with the split on the bottom normally sits completely under the tension disks and only separates then when you raise the feet via the hand lifter knob or foot lifter pedal. However, if the presser bar is binding in the top pressure spring adjuster (the one on the very top, with the hollow threaded screw), it can hang up higher than normal. Twist the pressure adjuster a little and see if the presser foot drops down some more. If the hole in the adjuster was drilled off of dead center, binding could happen. Emory cloth, or a close fit drill bit may clear up that alignment problem. I had to do that to my machine's pressure adjuster. Until then, second first problem I see in Cleanview's photo is that the thread guide seems to be up too high. It is even possible that the guide is stopping the separator block from letting go. That happened to me once. When users remove the faceplate to oil the innards, or to reposition the presser bar or needle bar, we sometimes forget to align the split in the bottom of the tension release crank. I did that two days ago. For a couple of jobs I didn't clue in on why the tension wasn't releasing when I floored the foot lifter pedal. Doh!

Have you contacted Techsew for a replacement screw? They sell them.

I don't have a 205, but did have a 204-374 for a while. I seem to recall that the check spring was mounted onto a split threaded shaft that can be loosened and turned one way or the other. One direction tightens the spring. You should be able to find that out. Give it enough spring action to keep the thread under tension. Then set the bottom stop to control the travel for well placed knots. Check springs can be too loose or too tight for a given size and stiffness of thread. An overly tight spring can actually override your top tension adjustment, or at least add to it. I try to balance mine to work well with #138 thread, without overriding the top tensioner too much. It then works fine with #207 and #277. #346 might need more spring action though. I have to loosen the spring to use #92 thread. I hope this helps.

When sewing thick stacks of leather, timing becomes much more critical. The hook arrives at a different place in reverse than in forward. My guess is the it arrives sooner and your loop has not fully formed yet. Try retarding the timing a few degrees. Another thing to verify is the height of the needle bar. If for any reason at all the needle bar has been pushed upward, your timing will be off. You can try rotating the needle slightly to aim the loop towards the oncoming hook. That means turn it to towards the back on the right-eye side. Thick leather and previous stitches will deflect the needle. A deflected needle is either closer or farther away from the scarf above the eye than when setup with no material. The check spring travel may need to be dinked with to keep the top thread under tension longer.

Maybe your thread is twisty. This does happen from time to time. Twisty thread loops over posts and guides until it binds in something. Try this and see if it helps: Remove the top thread Go to the spool on the thread stand and let the thread hang loose If it coils hard, twist it in the opposite direction one or two turns. Feed the end through the nylon guide above the cone Feed the thread through the top hole in the top post in the top Make 1 turn toward the back Feed it through the bottom hole so it points to the left If you have a lube pot, feed through its holes, in and out Thread the rest of the way as per instructions with machine, or on YouTube Adding silicon thread lube to the lube pot also helps subdue twisty thread. All this may add to your top tension and bring the knots up too high. Compensate first by backing off the top tension adjuster, then the secondary adjuster. The last one to adjust is the bobbin tension, which should have a smooth pull at medium force, depending on the thickness and stiffness of the work.

Andrew. You should know that even if you were to come across a Randall, you'd just end up trading or selling it to me. Just skip the step and have them send it here.

Sir, you need to learn to use Google search to get info on sewing machines. It will save you time and probably a lot of money you are about to waste. The Lewis 200 is a button sewer for cloth coats and shirts. It cannot sew anything but button shanks to garments. It is not a leather sewing machine.

I rethread with either #92 (#21 needle), or 138 (#23 needle) for such thin leathers. The tensions need to be reduced, as per my recent tips in the sticky topic called Tips for your 441 Sewing Machines (by Cobra Steve). Backing off the top pressure spring lets the thinner material move more easily. You can adjust the inside foot to meet the top just with or after the needle to balance the F/R stitch lengths.

A few months ago I replied to someone about getting the reverse stitches to line up with the forward ones on his walking foot machine. The simplest solution is to readjust the position of the inside foot so it hits the top layer just as or after the point of the needle hits it. I sometimes forget to change this foot timing on my CB4500 and when it is balanced for thin leather, the stitches don't always reverse into the same holes in thicker stacks. There is another trick I learned to balance forward and reverse on 441 machines. If the reverse stitches are longer than forward, loosen the bottom screw on the stitch length/direction indicator plate. Unscrew the top screw and hold it so it remains in the hole in the plate. Pull back on the top of the plate to gain some clearance from the body. Slide a small washer over the end of the screw on the inside of the plate. Screw it back onto the body. This shortens just the reverse length setting and often corrects for inside shaft adjustments are aren't so easy to make.

I have two patchers. One has a long arr and large bobbin; the other a short arm small bobbin. The small machine is mostly used to sew patcher over pockets on vests or small mending jobs. I use the long arm machine for various projects. I usually restrict both machines to T70 (US #69) bonded nylon. However, I do occasionally run #92 in the bigger patcher only. Today, I used it as an up-the-arm sewer for a pair of Santa boots I enlarged for a customer. Occasionally, I use the patchers to sew new zippers into purses, or to reenforce loose tabs for purse straps. I almost never use a patcher for any manufacturing project. However, if they, or only one of them was all I had to sew with, I would find a way. For instance, I cannot maintain much of a straight line on a patcher. But, if I was to first cut a groove in the edges of the leather, I could probably follow it. I used to sew for a good friend in the area who's main machine was an Adler 30-70 motorized patcher. Compared to my Singer patchers, it was built like a HumVee. He threaded it with #138 bonded nylon thread from Weaver Leather, top and bobbin. Sometimes, we preloaded a dozen bobbins for big runs of rifle slings and guitar straps. All the edges were pre-grooved and having a real 1/2 horsepower motor driving it, with excellent foot pedal control, allowed for two hands on the work at all times. It yielded a solid 5 to the inch, at 16ozs, and 4.5 per inch into 8 ozs of leather. No Singer I've ever owned could deliver this performance. In our friend Down Under's case, I would have the machine brought fully up to original specs, thread it with no more than T90 thread and fit it with a titanium coated system 135x16 or 29x4 - size 120 (aka: #19) needle. Groove the edges in advance for long straight lines. Double stitch the same holes if you need more strength than one line of #92 thread. If the life span of the machine is less important than a particular job, try adjusting it to sew the T135 (US #138) bonded thread. You'll need a #23 leather point needle.