Wizcrafts

Sometimes the math works and other times it fails. There is more than one factor that limits the thickness you can sew. The length of the needle, from the bottom of the needle bar to the eye of the needle. The clearance between the outer presser foot when it's raised all the way up, and the needle bar when it's all the way down. The height of the cut out in the back of the head, in which the alternating foot levers raise and lower. The strength of the presser foot spring, or springs The mechanical position where the upper tension gets automatically released by the foot lift mechanism Excess slack in the shuttle drive system could retard the timing making it harder to sew thick material. The standard walking foot needle system is not long enough to let the feet lift high enough to sew over 3/8 inch, without the needle bar hitting the raised outer foot. But, a manufacturer might decide to make certain models have higher non-sewing foot lift to insert the work into the needle area, clearing hardware and thick seams. That would be about 1/2 inch maximum clearance on a standard walking foot machine. The Juki 1508NH has been modified to allow the feet to lift even higher, to clear obstacles like the sides of shoes. Once the work is clamped down under the foot, it will only sew up to 7/16 inch. The needle system doesn't quite allow it to sew 1/2 inch. The 1508NH lists for about $2500, the same price as most 441 clone machines that can sew over 3/4 inch. You really should be limiting your search to a machine that can exceed your requirements, rather than just barely meet them. Another factor you may not know about yet is speed reducers. All of the 441 and 205 type machines have a 3:1 speed reducer pulley between the motor and machine. Furthermore, the flywheels on the big machines typically have 8 inch pulleys, or more. This slows down the top speed, multiplying the torque and gaining the necessary punching power to sew thick or hard leather, with large needles and thread. The upholstery grade machines don't usually have this reducer and might not be able to power the machine through the hard materials.

Ronnie; He told me is is making both nylon and leather dog collars and leashes. Some will max out at 3/8" while others may approach 1/2" at the folds. It seems certain he will need to sew up to 7/16 inch.

Consew now owns Chandler and sells equivalent models under the Chandler brand for a couple hundred dollars less than the Consew branded machines. They are about the same quality. A dealer can tell you the actual difference between them. The Juki 1541S is a slightly higher quality machine, tolerance-wise and is used in factories around the World. But, all three of these machines have exactly the same sewing capabilities. These are 3/8 inch thickness sewn, with no more than #207 thread on top and preferably, #138 in the bobbin. They use the same standard walking foot needle system: 135x16/17. The largest needle available in that system is #25. All three are upholstery grade machines. They can sew 3/8 inch, but not all day, every day. They will be maxed out and put to their limits working at that thickness. If you intend to sew 1/4 inch on a steady basis, they will do a good job. They aren't really built to take the constant pounding of sewing hard leather, especially with #24 or #25 needles. If you plan on sewing at or above 3/8 inch on a steady basis, these machines will let you down. There is one Juki you didn't mention, which exceeds all of these machines in capacity. That is the LU-1508NH. The feet lift up to 5/8 inch. It uses a longer needle (system 190) and can sew up to 7/16 inch, with #207 thread. The 1508NH sells in the mid 2k range. After that, you need to move up to a 441 clone, like the CB3500 you mentioned.

The Singer 111w152 IS a walking foot machine. It does not need any walking foot attachment! Here is the technical specs for this model: Single needle, lock stitch, compound feed with a vertical-axis sewing hook, and alternating pressers with 3/8" lift. Safety clutch prevents hook from being damaged by accidental strain. Speed 2900 R.P.M. The maximum stitch length is 5 to the inch. For stitching light leather work, such as leather gloves. This model is not designed for thick or hard leather, nor for thick thread. If you want to have a machine that sews with the same (#554) waxed linen thread you typically use when hand sewing, look into a Union Lockstitch, or Campbell-Randall needle and awl machine, or a shoe sole stitcher (Landis, Champion, American Straight Stitch, Frobana, Gritzer). None of the standard closed eye walking foot machines can feed this thread effectively. If you want a closed eye leather sewing machine that can handle thick, unwaxed thread, the Juki TSC 441, or Adler 205-370, GA5-1, or the 441 clones (example), which are sold by our member-dealers, all work with up to #415 bonded nylon, or bonded polyester thread. They require a #27 needle to do this. I do not personally know of any other types of machine that can use a #27 needle. The machines I have listed above will sew over 3/4 inch of real leather, with up to #415 bonded thread and huge needles. They sell for between $2,500 to $6,000, plus or minus.

Absolutely! Contact Campbell-Randall, in Yoakum, Texas! They build them to this day.

A friend of mine has just ordered a special servo motor for his 441 clone and is going to put it through the paces. I'll let you all know how it performs for him once I hear more.

FYI: I think that #554 waxed linen is 7 cord thread. Most shoe sole stitchers will sew pre-waxed linen thread, of at least 7 cords diameter. They weigh over 500 pounds and have very little throat depth, but will do edge stitching through very hard leather, with very thick linen thread.

I have a plastic caliper and measured my #277 and #554 thread. The best units were millimeters. The #277 is 1/2 mm and the #554 is 1 mm. In SAE, it looks like the 277 is about 1/64" and #554 is about 1/32 inch. #346 is in between those diameters. The needle size required to sew with #277, top and bottom, is either a #25 or #26. To sew #554 would require a machine capable of being fitted with a #28 or bigger needle. To avoid getting waxed thread stuck in the eye, a #30 needle would be best. It really boils down to what diameter the thread is that you want to use. FWIIW: I tried machine sewing with pre-waxed linen thread in the past and it didn't work out. However, I am able to sew with dry glazed Barbour's Irish Linen Thread, run through a liquid wax pot as I sew. I can do this on my Union Lockstitch machine, using Lax Wax. Again, it has a barbed needle and separate awl, not a closed eye. Let us know how you make out at your local shop.

FYI; The Seiko you are looking at uses system 214 needles. About the strongest thread you can expect to use is #346 on top and #277 in the bobbin. That would call for a #26 needle. If you were to try to sew with the linen thread you are hand stitching with, you would probably need a #30 needle. The wax would gum up the tensioners, guides and the eye of the needle. It would possibly also get stuck going around the shuttle.

Call the dealers listed in ads on top of each forum page and ask what they can do for you. Alternately, or if no happy happy, see the Machinery > Sewing Machines > Used section of Marketplace for second hand triple feed 441 type machines. The heavy waxed thread from Tandy is #554, which is not sew-able on most eye-needle machines. It can however be used on a Union Lockstitch machine, with a #4 or #5 needle and a #5 or #6 awl. I have some of this thread, by my needles and awls are too small, number-wise. I've been thinking about getting a few larger needles and awls so I can experiment with this thread (which I have in 3 different colors). My machine uses a barbed needle, just like the hand stitching awl you may be using. For a little more than you plan to spend, you could buy my ULS machine off me!

Jim, if you can bend the spring between two small screwdriver blades, do so. Otherwise, get a magnet and unscrew the spring from the case. Bend the business end in a tad, then reinstall it. The inward angle should allow you to apply some tension to the thinner thread. This is what happens to most bobbin springs after prolonged use with thick thread. They no longer apply enough tension to thinner thread.

You have a dis-formed bobbin case tension spring. Remove it, bend it inward slightly and reinstall it.

Steve; What's your budget?

ASM; I found that system 214x2 is a leather point needle for the machine you are looking at. I see some available in boxes of 100, in sizes 18 through 27. I'd guess other dealers may offer them in packs of ten.

With the power off, run your fingertip along the point of the needle. If you feel any burrs, replace the needle. If it has residue from tape or glue, clean it with deglazer or Goof-Off. If you get used to the sound of a new needle as it sews, you may be able to hear a change when it is wearing out the point.

If your needle screw is letting the needle go inside the leather, I would replace the needle securing screw. It might have worn threads, or have been cross-threaded by accident. If the latter happened, you must pray that only the screw itself is damaged, not the needle bar. If the screw is fine, but won't tighten enough, the threads in the needle bar might be worn, or cross-threaded. This would require you to have a new threads cut to a larger size, to match a new, larger diameter screw, or to have the needle bar replaced. Not going to be cheap either way.

This limited range of needle sizes in system 214 is not well known. I only learned about it a half year ago. That is not to say that these needles were never made in smaller sizes and that some dealers might still have new old stock of smaller sizes in 214. But, the chances that they are leather point is small. For instance, I have a Cowboy 441 clone, which uses type 7x3 or 794 needles. The leather point needles for it start with number 23 and go up. But, I have a full range going down to #18, with a regular sharp point. This is probable a supply and demand situation where more users want standard needles for cloth, vinyl, webbing and sails. UPDATE: I just found a source of system 214x1 (328) needles going from size 18 up to 27. There is no mention of leather point, so they are probably regular rounds.

Impressive specs. It will sew just over 1/2 inch. It uses system 214 needles, which are the same ones used in the CB2500 and GA5-1 type machines. These needles are available in sizes starting at #23, so the machine is not going to useful with thread thinner than #138. It is definitely overkill for anything under 10 ounces thickness. But, it looks like it will sew holsters, collars and harness up to 1/2 inch thick, with #277 bonded nylon or bonded polyester thread (using a #25 needle). You will need a smaller industrial machine for wallets and normal thickness belts. Most walking foot machines will serve this purpose, if geared down, or equipped with a servo motor with good slow speed range..

Look here for used sewing machines, for sale by our members.

If you are only sewing animal collars, a CB2500 will handle 7/16 inch of leather. It has bottom feed and a solid foot (a roller foot is also available), handling thread sizes from #138 through #346. If you are going to sew webbing, you can definitely sew 1/2 inch with that machine. It has bottom feed only, which is no problem on webbing, or on dog collars, where the bottom is not normally seen. The ultimate machine would be a 441 clone, which has triple feed and can sew over 3/4 inch.

The Sailrite 111 is a standard walking foot machine, with a maximum sewing thickness of 3/8 inch. You will not be able to sew over that, even though the feet lift higher. The feet need to be able to alternate up and down a certain distance. Plus, the needle bar must not be allowed to hit the lifted or alternating feet. Being that this machine uses a standard system 135x17 needle, it will not sew more than 3/8 inch. If you are seeking a leather sewing machine, for thicknesses up to 1/2 inch, this is not the machine for you.

Oh yeah?

My Patcher is also a long arm, blue body, big bobbin machine. The model is 29k172. I run the bobbin thread through the center hole that sticks up out of the center of the bobbin. The side spring keeps the bobbin itself from flipping out under speed. My machine was skipping stitches until I looked at the paddle shaped spring on the needle bar, saw it was loose in the thread channel, and bent it inward for better contact with the top thread.

Yes Trox, my bobbin case has the bobbin hold-down spring. I had a thought. Perhaps if the bobbin is almost empty, it will raise up like that, where a full bobbin has enough weight to stay down. Just guessing. I don't miss stitches either since I fixed the bent paddle shaped check spring on the needle bar.

Mine doesn't jump like that. Maybe your bobbin springs are too tight, causing the bobbin case to lift with the thread, rather than feed smoothly. Or, perhaps you are using too large a top thread, which is forcing the case to lift to clear the thread going under it.