Wizcrafts

My typo: it should read system 1738. These are the standard needle system used in most, but not all, straight stitch industrial sewing machines. They have a thinner mounting shank than walking foot needles and are shorter. Further, they aren't usually available in sizes over #21 or 22, since the machine that use them don't usually sew with #138 thread. System 1738 needles are known and sold as types: 16x231, 16x257, 16x95, 287wh, 1738, DBx257, SY2254 and SY2270. Since the machines designed to use these needles are not normally intended to sew over 1/4 inch of material, the needles are made short, to reduce breakage from minor deflections. Garment machines typically use these needles in very small sizes: 9 through 12. People sewing leather in these machines tend to use either #46 or #69 bonded nylon thread, using needle sizes 14 through 18. The old Singer cast iron industrial machines are built to last for over a hundred years. Some moving parts wear out with use, or if allowed to rust, but rarely from age alone. A Singer 96K anything, if properly timed and tensioned and not operated outside its nominal operating parameters, should last until the Kingdom Comes. That is, if it's regularly oiled, if worn out parts are replaced and important screws are kept tightened. My 96K40 was at least 40 years old when I bought it in 1985. It was my first sewing machine. I kept it in use until 2005. It was still sewing perfectly when it was sold. I had converted it into a roller foot machine to make some leather vests and repair hems and zippers on some leather pants and light weight jackets. Over the years I accumulated 28 different presser feet and a handful of edge guides. It had a Singer 1/2 HP green clutch motor. Both motor and machine were is excellent working condition, when I sold it at age 60+, for $200. It was a coincidence that my series 1738 needles worked in an old Singer 29-4 patcher, where the proper type 29x needles would not pick up the loop reliably.

I'd like to see Greggs shop also. I kinda go nuts in industrial sewing machine stores. Something about machines that go tapokita, tapokita fascinate me.

It is a descendent of a Consew 206 Japanese walking foot design, using a left side mounted M style large bobbin. The Singer 111 is so ancient now, but was the father of walking foot machines as we know them. They had top loading small bobbins. The Juki LU-562 was an improvement on the Singer 111, with reverse. The LU-563 added the Juki large bobbins, which are wider than the M bobbins my machine uses. My bobbin rack is a piece of cutting board, about 5/16" thick, with holes drilled and long construction nails pressed up from the bottom. I cut it away on the thread stand edge, so it can wrap around the right rear of the table. This is better than having loaded bobbins laying around or in a drawer.

They are good machines that take large size needles and use heavy thread. The sewing capacity is not quite what one would expect from such a heavy duty machine. Then, there are the aggressive feed dog teeth to be concerned with. This class of machine is fine for work where the underside is not visible and which does not exceed 7/16 inch thickness. Some GA5 models have reverse and others don't. If this one lacks reverse, you will have to either turn the work around 180 degrees, to backtack, or else bring the final stitch under the leather and tie a knot on the bottom, then trim the excess threads. The GA5 type machines use a needle system that begins with a #140 (22) and goes up to a #250 (~30). Most folks use #277 or 346 thread with these machines, requiring needle sizes 25 through 27. You would be smart to ask to see the machine in action. Bring some leather that you want to sew on it and see what kind of job it does. Be sure to observe the bottom to see how badly the teeth mark your preferred leather. Also, ask the seller to sew with heavy thread, such as you might be using. Watch for the leather lifting and smacking back down, as the needle rises. This leads to skipped stitches and a mess under the leather, as the teeth bite into it. The only solution is more top spring pressure, leading to even deeper tooth marks on the bottom. Price-wise, you are getting a pretty good deal. A brand new machine like that sells here for about $1000 - without reverse, to $1300+ with reverse, with a speed reduce and easy to control servo motor, plus shipping (~$230 to ~$250).

Doug; I wasn't referring to you with my comment about my neck being chopped off. The points that I made in my previous explanation were meant for you. This will allow you to compare features of very old versus newer machinery. If you choose the best machine, for reasonable money, it will serve you better than a super price deal on an ancient machine that lacks most of the features considered standard nowadays. The portable walking foot machine is not meant for sewing leather. The feet have teeth on them. The body clearance is 7" on most of those machines, although some models have up to 9 inches inside the body. By contrast, my modern walking foot machine has 10.5" clearance, from the needle to the bottom of the body. It was capable of sewing 3/8" of leather until I modified it. Now, it sews just under 1/2 inch. The large M style bobbins hold about 50% more thread than a Singer 111 bobbin. The stitch length can be varied while you are sewing and there are click detentes to lock the knob into position. The reverse lever is large and very easy to press down. There is no reason to spin the work around to back tack. The only other option on a non-reversing machine is to leave long threads at the end and tie them together, on the bottom. If you are in production, that is not a reasonable option, when machines with reverse are so plentiful. Here is a photo of my walking foot machine. Note the round stitch length knob and the huge reverse lever below it.

Okay. I stuck my neck out and you guys enjoyed chopping it off. Here then is my explanation for why I said what I did about Singer 111 sewing machines. !: They have a standard size industrial bobbin, which doesn't sew very far with #138 or larger thread 2: They lack reverse levers, except for but one sub-class 156 model. 3: the stitch length change mechanism is hidden inside the body, requiring a combination of a button push and hand-wheel rotation to affect a change. It requires learned skill to make repeatable changes, none of which happen quickly. Most modern walking foot machines have large bobbins. Most also have an easy to use reverse lever, for back tacking to lock stitches. I believe that most people sewing vests and chaps would prefer to press a lever down to back tack three stitches, into the same holes, than spin a large piece of leather 180 degrees to do that. Finally, I prefer to be able to turn a simple dial, with spring detentes, to make predictable and instant stitch length changes. I express my own opinions, which are like assholes: everybody's got one of them also.

That's like asking "Do I want a Vespa scooter or a Volkswagen Beetle?" I'd have to answer "neither." I tried a portable walking foot machine and it arrived with the main shaft jammed and it would not rotate long enough to form a stitch. I previously (late 1980's) had a Singer 111 and would not pay actual cash money for another one. What I would recommend is a fairly recent model Consew 206RB-something, or a Chandler 406RB, or a Juki LU-563, or an LU-1508. I have a National 300N, which is made in Japan and sews to 7/16 inch, using system 190 needles. I bought it off my local Craigslist, then purchased a SewPro 500GR servo motor to replace the clutch motor. All of the aforementioned machines have very large bobbins and very strong take-up parts and can easily handle #138 thread, or even #207.

My first industrial sewing machine was a Singer 96K40 straight stitch machine. Over the years I added all kinds of presser feet, including a full roller foot conversion. With that foot system in place I was able to sew leather vests and chaps. However, the machine could only tolerate #69 thread, maximum. The thickest seams I had to sew over were about 10 ounces (5/32"). I think you will be able to sew two 5 ounce, light temper pieces together, with a system 1138, #18 leather point needle and #69 bonded nylon thread. As for the feed dogs marking the leather, a roller foot conversion kit should reduce that to a minimum. The kit has a single row feed dog, about 1/8" wide+. Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines sells these conversion kits for straight stitch machines like yours. They also have movable edge guides that screw into the throat plate, inline with the needle. Note: the machine has a fairly weak top pressure spring, for garment use. It will have a hard time holding down 10 ounces of veg-tan leather.

I would use a walking foot, triple feed machine to sew multiple layers of webbing. The inner foot keeps the material under pressure, as it moves with the needle. On a jump foot machine the layers can shift sideways on the needle, unless you use an edge guide. Since you intend to sew 1/2 inch of webbing, look for a machine rated at 5/8" or better. You don't want to be always operating at the top end of a machine's capability. Also, go for a machine with a very large bobbin, which can properly tension #277 thread.

The last time I spoke with Aaron Martin's shop (~ a half year ago), they were pretty much out of the sewing machine parts business and only concentrating on selling goods they produce in the shop (rebuilt after a very bad fire). They couldn't even supply me with one single part for my Union Lockstitch machine, which they did in the past.

Neither. I ordered a 23" x 1/4" cogged belt for older Singer home sewing machines. It is a number 2314 belt. This belt will be long enough to allow me to mount the motor up alongside the back of the body, as opposed to down along the rear of the machine's support platform. I will grind down the edge of the motor mount that is interfering with the raised center area on my machine mounting platform, or drill and tap another hole for it, to the right of the first one.

The leather belt was on the big pulley. The vinyl belt is too short, so I just ordered a 23 inch cogged belt. I may also go for a cogged pulley with a 1/4" diameter hole. This will require me to relocate the motor to just behind the body, on top of the rear platform. It will also require me to drill and tap a second hole, to adjust the tension on the new belt. Right now it is on the back side of the platform. Would you have a link to the product page for that tubing?

I just moved my side motor up and found that it lacks one inch of being able to just connect to a 21 inch ribbed pulley (to the big pulley on the machine). Hunting for a #2214 or 2314 home machine pulley... The motor powers the machine in the smaller pulley, but groans and needs help to get into motion. Not good for the life of this motor.

The large pulley on the machine is 6" diameter. It is stock for this series of patcher. If you have an older model, it may have a different width pulley. The diameter of the pulley is not the most important factor. 5.5", 6"; not a big difference when the motor has a 3/4" pulley. Getting a firm grip on the motor pulley, with a leather belt, is the challenge. I am searching right now for longer home style machine belts. It appears that the embroidery machines have very long cogged 1/4" belts. If I find one that is 27 inches long I'll buy it and see if it works any better. If your patcher has a flat back and you can mount the motor directly behind the head, on top of the base, with the bracket facing down, then a 21 inch belt will fit it. I cannot mount the motor that way, without carving up the bracket, because my machine has a raised mid-section. If the slipping continues, I may have to resort to grinding off the front side of the bracket, and use a home machine belt. I think I saw a 23 incher somewhere on eBay... Here is a reduced photo of my current setup...

The motor I used is an AlphaSew 150 watt home motor. This is the most powerful motor of this type. It has a solid state foot control pedal. The only problem I have is a bit of slippage of the leather belt, until the wheel gets into motion. I am searching for a longer rubber or vinyl belt, which won't slip much at all. Once the AlphaSew motor starts the machine sewing, it keeps going until I stop it. The reduction factor is really high, going from the tiny pulley on the motor to the large pulley on the machine. The price I mentioned was everything, including the thin leather belt and C clip. But, I already had a tap to thread the hole for the bolt. The machine can still be operated by the hand wheel, even with the belt attached.

If none of your existing machines are suitable for heavy webbing, what may I ask is the thickness, width and thread size you need to sew?

What about a long body Chandler 406? This machine can sew heavy webbing for sure and is also very useful for large tarps, covers, sails, car wash cloths, etc.

Here is a picture of the same size motor, ready to be installed on a flat back patcher, in such a position as to be able to use a 21" home style no slip ribbed belt...

In order for you to mount a servo motor on that machine you will need cut out the space between the existing belt holes (unless you assemble the belt with a c-clip), and drill some mounting holes in the iron base and maybe even add a wooden platform for the motor to bolt onto. I found a cheaper and easier solution for my long arm patcher, with parts I bought from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397). See the photo below. The kit came with a 21 inch ribbed vinyl belt which was too short for this particular machine. That's why I used a thin leather belt. It works okay after I sprayed it with belt no slip spray. Total investment was about $100 and an hour of my time figuring out where to drill and tap the hole. The 5/16" x 18 screw was included. I have my own 1/4" drill and 5/16x18 tap. If your machine is flat across the back, you can mount the motor with the bracket facing down and use the 21 inch vinyl belt, which gives much better grip.

It zigs and zags and does the Sugarfoot Rag!

Contact Bob Kovar, owner of Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397) for replacement parts for your 29-4 patcher. The loose stitch length puck will need brazing on to take up the slack, inside the rig it rotates in. The lack of lift may be caused by incorrect placement of the movable lift puck, that slides along a cutout in the leaf spring on the back. You should take some good close up pictures of the machines, all the way around it and from the top. This will reveal missing, or misaligned parts to those who want to help you.

The Singer 29-4 has a dime sized bobbin that holds a little bit of thread. That's why cobblers tend to thread them with #69 bonded nylon. It is thin thread that has 11 pounds test. You won't be sewing any holsters on a 29-4. You will find uses for it down the road. It can sew up the snout. In fact, the sewing head rotates 360 degrees and the feed is performed entirely by the pressor foot. You are correct about using #277 thread for sewing holsters. I use that size regularly. It has about 44 pounds test strength. By comparison, #138 thread has 22 pounds test. Physically, #138 is half the diameter of 277. The machines that sew with #277 and larger thread do not do so well with thin leather or thinner threads, like #69. That's why most professional leather workers have more than one machine. I have three industrial machines right now. In the past I had up to a dozen. I use a long arm patcher for odd jobs, or jobs that need to be sewn up the snout. I have a heavy duty modified walking foot machine for medium duty sewing, up to 7/16 inch, with #138 to 207 thread, or less. Finally, I have a monster machine, built entirely in the USA, that makes 441 clones look like toys, which sews through pennies and wood, if necessary. It uses incomprehensibly large thread (8 to 10 cord linen, or, #554 bonded) if necessary. But, I have it loaded with #277, which it sews like melted butter. The bobbins are 2 1/2 inches in diameter and 3/4 inch wide. It is a true harness stitching machine.

I forgot to mention the needles used in the old 29-4 patchers. As I found on my last one, it didn't like the 29x system needles, preferring the 1138 straight stitch system. The most commonly used sizes will be #16 and #18 (100 and 110 metric). I sometimes use a #14 needle with standard garment weight cotton, or a #12 (metric 80) with monocord invisible thread. If I sew with #92 thread, I might use a #20 needle. For #138 thread, I use a #22 needle. I always prefer leather point needles in a patcher. There is no point in stocking round points, as these machines are not normally used to sew cloth projects too often. The availability of the system 29x4 leather point needles is diminishing, therefore, dealers sell series 135x16 as a replacement. They work in most type 29K patchers, but NOT usually in the pre K series (29-4, or earlier). Although my 29K172 has a large bobbin and is capable of sewing with #138 thread, it is normally threaded with #69. I stock #69 thread in a wide variety of colors, on small "patcher" 1 ounce spools. These spools are not available in larger thread numbers. I also buy 4 ounce spools of #69, wherever the price is best. Number 69 thread lasts a long time in the large bobbins. Therefore, my most used needles are #16 and #18.

A Singer 29-4 is made to patch shoe and boot uppers and sew patches onto vests. It can also be used to replace zippers on jackets and pants. Oter good uses include sewing Velcro onto bags and repairing tears in purses. The sewing capacity of the Singer 29-4 is 1/4 inch under the foot. The practical thread handling capacity is #92, but #69 goes further. The stitch length varies with the thickness being sewn and condition of the stitch length regulator system (inside the bottom of the head). At 6 ounces, you can expect to achieve no better than 5 to the inch. At 1/4" that drops to 6 or 7 to the inch. If the part that controls the stitch length is badly worn, which is typically the case for 100 year old patchers, the maximum stitch length drops to 8 or less, for light leather and 10 or worse at 1/4 inch. Some old patchers are so worn out that you may have to pull the leather through to get any stitch length at all. Here is how to test the feed, to determine if the machine is shot: Lift the pressor foot lift lever, behind the head, or, rotate the wheel until the needle is down and the foot has lifted up. Take a hold of the pressor foot and see how far you can push or pull it, straight back or forward. Everything beyond 1/64" of free motion is that much less than the design maximum length. A brand new, or fully rebuilt stitch length regulator cam may not even have 1/64" free play (mine barely moves). I once bronze welded onto the worn regulator on one of my old patchers, then filed and polished the "puck" part, to the point of only the minimum clearance needed to rotate and activate the drive mechanism. This yielded a full 5 stitches to the inch, into 3/16" of veg-tan leather. The "later" models of Singer patchers, with the larger bobbin, can easily sew with #138 thread, or 3 to 4 cord Irish linen. Bottom line is; if the feed mechanism has very little free motion (fwd or bkwd) and the wheel turns freely and everything moves without any binding, and no springs or tensioners are missing, and the stitch length adjuster is in place above the foot, and the teeth aren't worn or ground off the foot, it is definitely worth $200, for the head alone. If you can get the machine, mounted on the cast iron base for $200, buy it anyway, then fix it up for a couple hundred more, or bronze weld the worn out parts.

Make sure the needle is inserted with the scarf side to the right and the long ridge on the left. The eye faces due left-right and must be threaded from left to right. The bobbin should go in with the thread feeding clockwise, through the slot in the case, firmly under the little spring (which should be adjusted for modicum of pressure on the thread), up through the hole in the bobbin case, through the thread hole in the bobbin case post (long arm models only), then out the hole in the throat plate. Next item is the take-up lever and adjuster. You need to adjust the spring on the take-up lever just strong enough to pull the lever all the way up on the upstroke of the needle. Heavy thread makes it harder for the spring to lift the take-up lever. Therefore, the newer machines have a helped adjusted behind the take-up stud. You turn the spring loaded thumb nut clockwise to add lift, and vice verse. The additional take-up can also help when sewing thick or very dense leather. Finally, there is a thin long spring with a paddle shape at the bottom, which fits inside the lower section of the needlebar, just above the needle mounting block. If this spring is missing, broken, or bent out of shape, the top thread flops around in the needlebar and this can cause skipped stitches.