Wizcrafts

There are a few types of (new) machines that will sew both bags and holsters. These are all cylinder arm machines, not flat beds. I'll list the common models below. It's up to you to determine how to afford any of them. CB2500 / GA5-1 with or without reverse. These machines have a 10.5" arm length, large bobbins and big needles and can sew with #346 bonded nylon, or 5 cord linen thread. They are limited to no more than 7/16 inch of leather under the solid foot. Drive is performed by a feed dog on the bottom (with teeth). The marks can be rubbed out with a spoon, or modeling spoon, or slicker. 227R type machine, like the CB227R or Techsew 2700. These are alos 10.5 inch arm machines, but not as heavy duty as the above machines. They do, however, have triple feed and interchangeable presser feet and all manner of accessories that can be bolted onto the top plate. Limited to #138 or 207 thread, they can sew 3/8 inch of leather, or anything else. 441 clones (of the Juki 441) are cylinder arm machines with triple feed and a smooth feed dog. Most sold here are equipped with what we call a harness foot set. This consists of a double toed outside foot, with no metal in the center, and an inside foot that moves with the needle, to feed the material. These machines have arm lengths of 9, 16.5 and 25 inches. They all take up to $145 bonded, or 6 cord linen thread, have huge bobbins and can sew about 7/8 inch of material. We have dealers on this forum who specialize in setting up and selling/maintaining these 441 type machines. Top brands include Cowboy, Cobra and Techsew. Also, there are similar machines sold by Artisan, Ferdco and Weaver Leather. Boss hand operated portable stitcher. This machine is driven by your right arm pulling and pushing on a big lever on the right end of the machine. It has a limited depth inside of only about 6 inches or so. It does use big needles and can sew up to 3/4 inch, with $346 thread, or heavier. The machine needs to be bolted onto a work table. It is okay for prototyping jobs and sewing close to to the outside edge of thick straps or holsters. It is not so good if you need to rotate a large piece of leather towards the inside, such as when sewing up, around and down a holster. It may not fit inside the body, or bend up enough against the body to allow the return row of stitching. Your arm will get tired quickly if you use it to sew a long stitch run. As for pricing, the GA5/CB2500 types generally sell for about $99 without and $1300/1400 with reverse. They come with a special cutout industrial table, and a servo motor. The 227 type machines are typically about $1500 - $1600 and usually come on a pedestal type movable table. The 441 clones usually start at about $1800 - $1900, for a 9" arm, $2100 - $2500 for 16.5" arms (depending on accessories), to about $3000 for the 25" models. The Boss manual stitchers sell for $1400 new. Used, they usually go for about $700 to $800, or so. If you cannot afford any of these machines, look for or inquire about a used 227 type or a Singer 153, with walking feet. These typically sell for about $400 to $700, depending on the dealer and condition of the machine and the table/motor sold with it. All machines must be shipped by truck, so if you can't go to a dealer's location, be prepared to spend another 2 to 3 hundred for shipping on a pallet. Since you have no previous experience with industrial or any sewing machines, I would advise against buying from Craigslist, or the run of the mill eBay sellers. You are going to run into problems until you learn the ins and outs of setting up and maintaining/troubleshooting your machine. Ebay dealers may not offer any support, or limited email support. Phone support may only be for returns under warranty (if any). Most used machines are sold with a very limited warranty, if any. If you buy a used machine, try to get it from one of our member dealers, like Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, Keystone Sewing, Techsew, (I suspect that Cobra Steve has some used machines)

Yes, a piping foot is the same as a welting foot. Piping is sometimes the inside cord and sometimes the finished round product. You can buy premade cloth, leather and vinyl piping, or make it yourself with rope or piping cord. There are four types of piping/welting presser feet. Standard piping foot cut-off back piping foot double piping foot double cut-off piping foot The standard foot or feet have a channel going all the way from the front to the back of the left side of the outer (walking foot) or single (straight stitch) foot. If walking foot, the inner foot also has a channel or arc cut into it, although it is rather short. The cut-off style uses the same inside foot (for walking feet), but, the back is ground off and radiused to allow the foot to turn sharp corners. Upholsterers often turn a sharp corner on covers and replacement coverings. A standard welting foot pushes the material into a straight line and fights the operator around hard curves. The double channel piping sets are used to lay down two rows at the same time, of the same size piping. This is a decorative effect used by upholsterers. Zipper walking feet have one toe: right or left, plus a narrower than usual inside foot. Straight stitch zipper feet are either movable left to right, or pre-made for sewing on the left or right edge. The single feet have a wide flat profile, with a cutout for the needle. You can literally sew right up the the side of the raised edges of any kind of project with a flat zipper foot. Unfortunately, the same does not apply to walking foot sets. The inside foot occupies at least 3/16" width, placing the needle about 1/16" away from the edge being sewn. I do have one very narrow left toe set that gets very close to the raised area, which is on its right side. In the brave new world of the 441 clone machine, the presser foot design is nothing like the usual walking or flat foot machines. The standard feet that ship with the machines from China are a very wide set, with aggressive teeth on the bottom. They have a matching feed dog, with similar teeth on it. This set is known as a blanket foot set. It is used to provide flawless traction for sewing blankets, buffing wheels, tarps, awnings, parachutes, etc. Most leather workers don't want to have tooth marks on either side of the leather, so, the dealers contract to have a smooth top feed dog made and what are known a harness feet. These feet have no steel in the rear middle area. They have a single left, or right toe, or a combination double toe configuration. The double toe is now shipped to the end customer as standard equipment. The dealers remove the blanket feet and the feed dog with the teeth and replace them with a harness foot set and smooth feed dog. There are very few optional presser feet for the 441 clones. Were that they were Adler 205 clones, which some of the Cowboy machines are, then one could buy optional Adler feet for special uses. A single toe Adler foot has steel in the rear middle section. Some jobs are better sewn without any steel in the middle, others benefit from the extra support provided by rear-middle steel on the work. Don't forget, these machines are triple feed and have a moving inside foot. One type of outer foot that is experimental is a single-center toe, behind the inside foot. This is either cut from an unwanted blanket foot, or made in a metal shop. Such a foot would only provide support to the leather behind the inner foot, to the rear of it's maximum travel. It would allow one to sew handcuff type cases with a narrow stitching flange, right side up. It could also be used to repair stitches on shoe out-soles. I think that most dealers have a grinder, sander and buffer that could create such a uni-pod rear foot from a blanket foot. Bob Kovar made one and a picture of it is on his webpages for the CB3500, 4500 and 5500 machines. Go to, say, the CB4500 page, find the underlined link for "See more photos of our optional pressor feet and throat plates for the CB3500, 4500 and 5500 models."and click on it to reveal a slideshow along the bottom of the page. One of the feet is the uni-pod set. It was experimental.

Doug; I'm sure there are dozens of sewing machine videos on YouTube, many of which show a welting foot in action. With the proper arch (size) welting set you can lay a stitch line right along the side of the raised portion, which contains the cord. The material is formed around the cord and flattened at the bottom, by the feet. You can use a single toe outside foot to sew close to the round edge of piped material. But, you'll never get as close as you can with a welting foot set, of the proper width. Upholsters usually have two or more walking foot machines. One is setup with a standard double toe foot. The other is typically setup with a 1/4" welting foot set. If they need a different size of piping, they swap out the feet for the desired size. I have a very narrow zipper foot set, only 1/4" total width, but it has teeth on both feet. It is great for sewing in zippers! Most walking foot feet are smooth bottomed. There are only a few types that have teeth. Those are zipper and binding feet. Edge binding, running through a 90 degree side-feed edge binder/bias tape attachment, benefits from the added traction provided by teeth on the feet. Bob Kovar stocks most walking foot sets. Call him (866-362-7397) and tell him what size cording you need to sew and how thick the covering material is going to be. The size of the foot set is determined by the overall thickness/diameter of the covered cord/material around it.

I think you meant to say the left toe foot, which is away from the edge guide, on the left side of the inside presser foot. The right toe foot sticks out about 1/8" to the right of the inside foot and will interfere with the edge guide, if the guide is set very close to the strap or project being sewn. I almost never use the right outside foot. The left toe foot has one toe, on the left of the needle and inside foot. The right foot has one toe to the right of the inside foot. If this foot is used, you will have to stitch about 1/4' inside the outer edge. With the left toe foot you can get a 1/8" in stitch line, while using the roller guide.

Email response time on AOL depends on who you send your email through. I have had delays up to one week in delivery of email sent to Bob, or other AOLers. At other times the email was never delivered at all, not even to a junk folder. They apply their own blocklists and have their own definition of what constitutes spam. Rather than let members decide, AOL's mail servers make a decision first. If they get it wrong, and they do, the email in question is held up, or rejected, with no notice to the intended recipient, or the sender. In fact, the only notices I have ever seen from AOL, are for an unknown account (misspelled), or a full account not able to receive any more messages.

I have had to repair very old rifle cases and golf bags for collectors, or people restoring items from the parents or Grand Parents. These items were sewn on Puritan chainstitch machines, using 6 cord waxed linen thread. Some of these items were over 60 years old. The stitches were fine; the leather need patching! My Union Lockstitch machine likes 4 through 6 cord left twist linen thread. But, after buying a bargain brand once, I recommend only buying Barbour's Irish Linen Thread. It costs more, but it's well worth the money.

It could be that the top thread is binding on the way to the needle. Bob Kovar made a video showing , but it is the same for most of the other 441 clone machines. If you thread your new machine the same way, your knots should be in a better location, everything else being equal.

The Cobra is brown; the Cowboy is beige. The Cowboy presser feet and throat plates are cut from stainless steel. Both machines have the same specs and are well made and serviced by the most competent mechanics in the business. The official Cobra and Cowboy dealers stand behind the machines they sell. Price-wise, if similarly equipped, they cost about the same. The Cowboy machines are offered a la carte, at a lower price, for those who don't want or need all the accessories, and are usually in stock all the time.

135x15 has a standard round sharp point that is used to sew everything made from cloth. 135x16 has a narrow twisted chisel point and is used to sew leather. The only ways you will get a smooth cover plate is if a dealer happens to have one in a drawer of new-old parts, or if you get one machined. Ditto for the feed dog.

The needles in system 135x15 and 135x16 go up to #25, which will sew #207, top and bottom. The maximum thickness with these needles, on a stock setup, is 3/8 of an inch. You may be able to bump that up by reducing the lift of the alternating feet and possibly grinding down the top of the outside foot. This may allow you to sew 7/16 inch. Sewing at full capacity or above will wear out the machine in a short time. To be safe, use a #22 or #23 needle with #138 thread, top and bottom, and limit the thickness to just under 3/8 inch. The machine will last longer this way, if you keep it well oiled.

All industrial sewing machine dealers have these needles. They are the most commonly used system in garment sewing machines and post machines. They are also known as system DBx1, 16x257, 16X257LR, DBXF2, 1738LR Lower the needle all the way down. Use a flashlight or movable lamp to observe the needlebar and look just above the removable puece that secures the needle. Better yet, unscrew the needle holder completely from the bar. You should see a paddle shaped spring along the thread path, ending just above where the needle holder mounts. The paddle piece provides tension to the thread as the loops are being formed and in between stitches. If this spring has broken off at the paddle, you will have skipped stitches and other problems with sewing. I had a bent paddle spring on my patcher when I first got it and bought a replacement with two tiny screws, for very little cost, from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. I can't imagine it would be very expensive to have a spring, a pair of screws, a pair of tension disks and a few packs of 1738LR needles mailed to you. You can find their contact details on their website.

This fact tells me that the machine is meant to sew thin, soft leather, with thin thread. It is the perfect machine for doing decorative stitching on boots. It is a great machine for sewing shoe uppers, moccasins, caps and hats. As for belts, maybe dress belts, no thicker than 3 mm, using T-70/B69 bonded nylon thread. The #18/110 needles are perfect for #69 bonded thread. The 134R needles are for sewing cloth, not leather. You should stock up on leather point 134-LR needles for sewing leather projects. Schmetz are about the best needles you can buy.

The Cowboy CB2500 uses a needle system that begins with number 22/140, which is suitable for #138 bonded thread. The Boss uses system 794 needle which begin with a #19/120, suitable for #92 thread. Both use a similar shuttle and bobbin. As for punching power, the Boss relies on your right arm to punch through the material, stitch after stitch. The Cowboy gives that task to a powerful motor. The CB2500 has feed dog drive a static presser foot, but has an optional big roller foot if needed. The Boss has needle feed, with a jump foot. The CB2500 has a 10.5" area between the body and needlebar. The Boss has a bit over 6 inches inside clearance. The Boss has an aluminum casing and some gears are aluminum. The CB2500 uses steel gears and has an iron case. Magnets stick to it. The Boss is portable, if there is a bench to bolt it to. The CB2500 is not portable. Both machines can handle #346 thread. Needles are available in both systems.

Loops under the leather tell that either the bobbin pressure spring is too tight, or the top tension is too loose, or the needle is in wrong, or the wrong length, or the foot lift mechanism is disengaging the top tension disks prematurely. Follow the top thread from the spool to the head. Make sure it actually feeds around the little stud behind the top tension disks, then around and through the disks from right to left, then through the little twisted metal eye, then up to the take-up lever, down the hole, past the little spring above the needle and into the needle's eye, from left to right. Examine the action of the foot lifter mechanism and see if it is moving the tension disks apart, with the hand lift lever down. If so, move the adjuster (puck or sliding cam) to lower the foot lift a tish. You want to make sure you have enough lift to clear your leather, to feed new stitches, not so much that the disks get separated as you sew. I had an old patcher that didn't like 29x needles. The thread kept getting dragged under the shuttle. So, I tried using type 1738 industrial needles and they sewed just fine. You want the bobbin pressure just tight enough to provide a little resistance. The top gets more tension. If the needle is way too big you might get loops on the bottom. Finally, make sure that the spring on the take-up lever is properly tightened.

How much thickness of leather do you intend to sew? What size thread will you be using the most? What are your primary sewing projects going to be? Things to keep in mind are one of the two machines you mentioned is a production quality machine and the other is more of a prototyping machine.

Linen thread predates both nylon and polyester thread. It was used to sew parachutes, awnings, sails, shoes, saddles, holsters, golf bags, briefcases, rifle cases, luggage, etc. The most famous brand of linen thread is Barbour's Irish Linen Thread. Formerly made in Ireland, the company was dismembered and its assets sold to Coats and Clark. Barbour's linen thread is glazed with a light weight coating that holds the twisted strands together. It is produced in standard left and custom right twist and is sold in one pound spools. While it is possible to use linen thread on a modern sewing machine, it is not really that strong unless you run it through a wax pot on the way to the needle. The wax solidifies inside the leather after a while. This permanently locks each stitch in place. Waxed linen thread is rot resistant and is able to remain functional even if one or more bottom stitches are worn down, as in the soles of shoes. Almost every hand sewn leather project is done using waxed linen thread. 6 cord waxed linen thread is incredibly strong and long lasting. It is difficult to sew waxed linen with a regular industrial sewing machine. Not impossible, just difficult. The wax clogs the guides and tensioners and the eye of the needle. It must be sewn at very slow speeds, with a larger needle than otherwise would be used.Six cord waxed linen thread would probably need a #28 or #30 needle to feed it and form a loop. Needles that big are not available for normal industrial machines. Only the biggest harness or shoe stitchers have needles that big. If you want to sew regularly with waxed linen thread, you should get a Union Lockstitch or Campbell stitcher, both of which use barbed needles and stabbing awls. If chain stitching is acceptable for your work (bottom stitches not visible), a Puritan machine will do nicely, at a lower cost than the ULS or Campbells. They have wax pots for liquid wax and accept huge, barbed needles, and use awls.

Those machines are a shoe repairman's dream. There's even a McKay in there. Man, a lot of soles could be sewn on those machines. Someone could even go into the shoe building business if they bought the lot out. For the Poster: These machines can only sew along the perimeter of leather. They stitch outer soles onto the insoles of boots and shoes. Using 6 or 7 cord, right twist, linen thread, run through liquid wax in a pot, they are awesome machines to watch in action. At about 500 pounds each, they need a cement floor to support them. I have even seen shoe repair shops that have their sole stitcher bolted into the cement floor.

I want to point out that I didn't buy the SewPro because I couldn't control the clutch. On the contrary, I have sewn on nothing but clutch motors until 2 years ago. I can feather a clutch motor to 1 stitch per second. But, keeping it at that speed, stitch after stitch, all the way around the oval holes in dozens of guitar strap tails, or all the way around the thick end of 40 rifle slings, is a lot easier with a servo motor. The SewPro 500GR has made sewing fun again, rather than stressful on my right foot. I really like the analog pot on the back of this motor. I can easily reach in a dial it down between items, knowing that 12 o'clock will cut the speed in half. I have even dialed it down to just a couple stitches per second with the pedal down. It's like watching grass grow - how slowly the machine can be made to turn over with a touch of the toe, at that setting.It's not practical, but interesting. I could never feather a clutch down to one stitch every five seconds, repeatedly, for minutes at a time.

Sorry Joe, I don't know anybody who sells retail smooth feed dogs for upholstery grade walking foot machines. However, you could buy another feed dog and have a welder braze bronze in between the teeth, to just over the top of the peaks, then sand the top flat and buff it to a high polish.

I can't believe you posted this on the public forum Bob. Would it be so difficult for these same people to build a similar motor, with stronger steel gears and a 3/4 inch shaft, able to put out and withstand higher torque? Probably not, if the demand was perceived to exist. I would be first in line to test such a motor.

What needs to be developed by SewPro is the next step up in power, but everything else the same. It would be awesome if they could produce a model that draws 500 watts under full load, with a speed knob on the back and 3:1 gear reduction. Just dreaming.

A friend of mine recently sold his Rex 26-188. It had teeth on the bottom of both presser feet and teeth on the feed dogs. The marks were very pronounced on both sides, on leather that remembers marking. If you are going to sew suede or roughout leathers, or leathers embossed with a lot of texture, the tooth marks won't be so obvious. Reducing the pressure on the feet would also help with the marking. These machines are double feed machines. The outer presser foot is crank driven, in sync with the feed dog. Like love and marriage, ya can't have one without the other!

The SewPro 500GR is not a direct drive 300 watt motor. It has built in 3:1 gear reduction, which it outputs this to a 2" pulley. So, when it is drawing its full 300 watts, it is producing triple the torque of the native motor. It will without a doubt out-twist a 1/2 HP clutch motor, which runs at 550 watts. My guess is that it produces about 3/4 HP, but there is nothing on the motor to indicate this. I wouldn't want to be holding on to the pulley end of either motor as they start up! The 441 type machines are equipped with 3/4 HP servo motors because most of them lack low speed torque.A 1/2 HP clutch motor, with a 2" pulley will power them, especially if they feed a speed reducer pulley. The reducer pulleys multiply the torque by three, but divide the top speed equally.

I have mentioned this before, but will do so again. It is possible to create a bigger loop for the point to pic up. There is a combination of thigs that can improve the loop size. Most notably, is to try using Schmetz needles, which are made to push more of the loop to the right side of the needle. Next, try reducing the travel of the check spring, which holds the top thread under tension as the take up lever descends. Finally, try using one needle size smaller than usual. So, instead of using a #18, try a #16 needle, if you can find any. It will pass #69 thread quite nicely, but with less slack. Lastly, alter the timing of the needle bar to ascend a bit more before the point passes the cutout above the eye. Make sure that the point is well above the actual eye. Applying these changes may improve the small thread sew-ability, without sacrificing large thread stitch sizes. The increased travel in the needle may allow you to lengthen the stitches with thin tread, should you ever want to. The bigger loops would allow you to reduce or lengthen the stitches for bigger thread. This will also make the machine sew more reliably in reverse. The above are my opinions. But, they have worked for me.

Kevin; You know that if you actually had a Campbell High Lift, you wouldn't part with it. I'll just have to slug it out and make do with my itsy bitsy Union Lockstitch machine, from 1910. It can't touch the Campbell machines and it only sews an honest 3/4 inch. I feel deprived ;-)