Wizcrafts

Ray; Since you have control over your feet you will probably have an easy time learning to sew on a leather stitcher equipped with a servo motor, with a knob on it to set its maximum speed. These motors can be adjusted for a comfortable maximum speed, while allowing you to slow it down with your foot on the speed pedal. Starting up requires a slight toe down. You then pivot the pedal toe down for more speed and heel down for less. The motor must be matched to the machine to work efficiently. I use a SewPro 500GR servo motor, which has a knob on the back. It has built in 1:3 gear reduction, which translates into 3:1 torque multiplication. Many lesser servo motors lose punching power at very slow speeds. This one doesn't. The modern 441 clone leather stitchers in use by many of our members are usually mounted on compact, movable pedestal bases. There are two pedals on the floor plates. One controls the motor speed, while the other is used to lift the pressor foot (to makes sharp turns, or to insert or remove the leather and loosen the top thread tension). If both of your feet are usable for pushing down on the heel or toe, you should be able to operate a sewing machine that is mounted to a pedestal base, with a knob controlled servo motor. I would recommend that you avoid the fancy looking servo motors with up and down buttons and speed readouts. They only change the speed while they are turning the machine! I find this very hazardous; leaning down to find the little buttons, while my foot is on the pedal and the machine is turning. With a knob controlled motor you just turn the knob to the setting mark or number you prefer and that becomes the top speed. Also, the big stitchers have a large speed reducer pulley between the motor and machine. This further slows the top speed and multiplies the torque (typically by 3:1). You will find, as you sew, that speed is not usually your friend when sewing anything other than garment, upholstery, or chap leather. For thick veg-tan or latigo projects, the slower, the better (within reason).

Try running the thread through a pot of silicon thread lube. You can buy a bolt on, or magnetic mount lube pot and quarts of liquid silicon from Bob Kovar: 866-362-7397. This is what I am using to lubricate my thread.

Maybe this topic will cause some entrepreneur to come up with an affordable (?), not too difficult to install (with tools) add-on kit that allows one to alter the height of their pedestal sewing stand, with a lever. It would have to be a bolt in/on attachment for common power stands. Also, any changes in the height of the table top requires a matching change in the length of the chains from the two pedals on the base. Or, spring-loaded take-up idler wheels would be needed to maintain the proper amount of chain slack at all anticipated heights. No, I don't intend to build one, so don't throw it back at me.

You are well on your way to being able to afford a better grade of sewing machine, than the LU-562. For only a little more money you can get a brand new Consew 206RB-5, or a CB2500 (GA5-1R type). For another $800 you can have a brand new 9 inch arm, very heavy duty leather stitcher delivered to your location on a pallet in a truck. Either of these types of machine will sew holsters with thick thread. The first type (CB2500/GA5-1R) sews to 1/2 inch. The latter sews over 3/4 inch. Both can easily handle #346 thread (larger on 9 inch types). I recommend that you read the sticky topic at the top of this forum; about the type of machine needed to sew leather. It is an extensive, ongoing work that walks you through the process of education about mechanisms and toughness, to get you to understand what type and build of sewing machine you really need for the work you intend to do.

Welcome to LeatherWorker.net Roy! The Juki LU-562 and its big bobbin counterpart, the LU-563, are triple feed walking foot machines. They were designed to sew denim, canvas, webbing, vinyl and upholstery grade leather. Equipped with a standard sized industrial bobbin, the 562 will not sew very far using #138 thread. My guess is that a full bobbin will sew maybe a half dozen or so men's belts. These machines sew best with #69 or #92 nylon thread. While you can easily set this machine up to sew with #138 thread, into about 5/16" (20 oz) of leather, you will be pushing it to its limit. Number 138 thread is on the small side for gun holsters; most are sewn with #207 or larger thread. You would have to sew two rows for security of the stitching. 20 to 22 ounces combined is the thickest you will probably get it to sew (without tricks). This is okay for pancake holsters, but not much else. Speed-wise, the machine itself is not meant for high speed sewing. It is a manual oiler, with a drip pan underneath. Top speed is usually set to about 2,000 stitches per minute. This is determined by the motor speed and its pulley size. If you buy it from an upholstery shop, it will probably have a 4 inch pulley. This gives you about 1700 to 2000 spm, with a 1725 RPM motor., which were standard when these machines were being built. To use this machine for sewing small leather projects, like pancake holsters, you will need to either replace the pulley with a 2" pulley, or replace the motor with a servo motor, also with a 2 inch pulley. This will bring the top speed down to a more controllable 800 to 1000 SPM. If you have a clutch motor, you will need to learn to feather the clutch for slow speed operation. A servo motor is much easier to control at slow speeds, with slight toe down pressure. If you want to build professional quality holsters, save your money and buy a very heavy duty machine that is made to sew thick leather with thick thread. These machines already have servo motors, with high horsepower ratings, and speed reducer wheels between the motor and the machine. The top speed of some of these "stitchers" is no more than 360 spm, or 6 per second. Slow speeds can be less than one stitch every other second, with the right motor and machine. This machine may be better suited to making leather seat covers, chaps, jackets and vests, rather than holsters.

Here you go:

I know that Bob Kovar had or has two Champion stitchers in his shop and I hazzard to guess that he also has parts and accessories for them. Give him a call, at: 866-362-7397.

Here is what the pedestal and cut-out tables for Cowboy machines looks like...

I have found a B61. All I still want are the round bevelers, mentioned in my first post.

You need a table that only has a slot for the belt, holes for the motor and a hole for the foot lifter chain. The frame should be a k-legs frame. They come with just the motor speed pedal. You'll need to buy the foot lifter pedal and bracket and chain. Note, that most industrial machines have a knee lever foot lifter. This does not work on a Singer 153, or a 227 clone machine. They require a flex chain that feeds straight down to a narrow floor pedal. You'll also need to buy a bobbin winder to screw onto the table and a two spool thread stand, that screws onto it. Atlas Levy charges $195 plus shipping for a "standard" industrial table, with a 7 x 19 inch cutout for a flat bed machine and oil pan. This table will NOT work for your Singer 153 cylinder arm machine. It will fall through the rectangular cutout, unless you add another piece of hard wood to cover that hole and bolt the machine to the top piece, then bolt the top piece to the table. The pedestal half-table sold by Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines is perfectly matched to your machine, which has clones known as 227 types.

I guess that the OP could buy a standard industrial sewing machine K-legs frame, with a motor pedal mounted to the bottom and also purchase a second, narrow pedal and chain, to lift the pressor feet. Then, he could go to a lumber supplier and have a 20" x 48" x 1.5" piece of fairly hard wood cut for a table and buy some 1.5" wide sticky trim to wrap around it. A saber saw could be used to round the edges and to cut out a big U shape in the center, about 3/4 the way inwards, under where the cylinder arm hangs out to the left. A hand held sander would be used to smooth the cuts, then the trim would be applied all around the table and inside the cut out. Then, a router with a 1" bit can be used to cut the 1" x 7" slot for the v-belt. Finally, a drill can be used to drill the holes for the motor bolts, the knee lifter chain, and the machine mounting screws. The entire job can be done for a couple hundred bucks in materials and a couple hundred dollars worth of power tools and bits, if the tools aren't already in his shop. Or, he could buy the correct half-table on the movable pedestal base, with both pedals mounted, the slots cut, the holes drilled, a parts drawer and maybe a flex lamp and thread stand, for about $300, plus UPS delivery charge.

That is the very stand that I was referring to, which is sold by Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines.

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397) has cut-out tables and what I would call work station platforms on wheels, for cylinder arm machines. The workstation type has a steel frame on the right side, with a wooden platform on top. The machine bolts onto the left edge of the top and sticks out over the empty space on the left. There is a steel base on the bottom left, containing the pressor foot lift and speed pedals. They are pre-drilled for standard motors and have a long slot for the v-belt. They also come with an accessory drawer on the bottom right edge.

I have updated my topic about the type of sewing machine needed to sew leather to include information pertinent to this thread. It should prove beneficial to new leather sewers who may be tempted to buy a beautifully restored home sewing machine, such as those offered by the company mentioned by a previous poster. If you want such a machine as a collectors item, great! If you want to get one for your wife to sew skirts and shirts, great! But, if you think for one minute that these old iron machines can sew veg-tan holsters, with any kind or serious thread, please read my topic, linked to above.

Lately, I have been answering questions from newbies to sewing leather, who are laboring under the misconception that an old, restored home type cast iron sewing machine is good enough to sew leather holsters. The people selling these machines even post close-up photos showing them using what appears to be very thick thread and sewing what looks like thick leather. Nothing could be further from the truth! These are still home sewing machines, made to handle cloth and thin, flexible thread. The photos exaggerate the real sizes of the items in them. Read on... Newbies to sewing leather should listen to the advice given by people who have paved the way for you. Long time leather sewers, who have dozens of years of experience between them, have worked their way up, from fancy looking home sewing machines, to straight stitch, to needle feed, to spring foot, to walking foot jeans-upholstery machines and finally, into really strong machines that are specifically designed to sew hard and thick leather, with very strong thread, without breaking down. I am one of these people. I have watched the take-up levers on cast iron home sewing machines bend or snap off, under the strain of using #138 thread, while trying to sew 5/16" of veg-tan leather. The slightest thread jam in the bobbin throws them totally out of time. Tensions are hard to balance and they don't hold much thread, once you go beyond size 69. So, what about a big industrial sewing machine, like those found on eBay and Craigslist? These must sew hard leather with thick thread ... right? Mostly wrong! There is little more disheartening than having spent $1000 - $1500 on an industrial sewing machine and setting it up with a #24 needle and #207 thread, sewing into 3/8" of holster leather, than to hear the decisive THWANK it makes as the main parts break, strip, de-time, and/or seize under the strain. This happens when a person tries to use garment and upholstery grade machines to sew 3/8 inch of veg-tan or latigo leather, with #207 or thicker thread. Yes, you may get a few projects sewn, but, eventually: THWANK! Over-stressed machines will typically produce shorter stitches in thicker leather, due to a combination of the pendulum geometry and the lack of "feed-ability" of smooth surfaced leather that is too thick for the feeding system. I have watched in dismay as a fully rebuilt, huge, Singer 132k6, with a spring loaded "walking" foot system, which I payed $1500 for, slipped and slid all over the edges of a hand stamped and Carnauba waxed belt I just made. The stitches varied from 5 to the inch, down to 10 to the inch! The knots were all over the place, vertically. This was caused by me buying an incredibly strong machine that was made to feed and sew buffing wheels, tow ropes, parachutes and tents, but using it to try to sew veg-tan leather. I have probably wasted over 7 or 8 thousand dollars, moving up through inadequate, yet tough looking sewing machines, over the years. Once I acquired a real harness stitcher and learned to use it, I never looked back. I sold off most of the other machines and only kept a long arm patcher and a Japanese walking foot machine. When I work at my buddy's leather shop, I sew on his Cobra with a 16.5 inch arm and an 18" arm Adler 30-70 "Patcher." The patcher maxes out with #138 thread and a little over 5/16" thickness. Everything else is either sewn on the owner's Cobra, or I take it home and sew it on my Union Lockstitch (with #277 or #346 thread) or my modified National 300N (#138 or #207 thread). I also have a small collection of some beautiful, very old Singer and White Rotary sewing machines. At best, they are able to use #69 nylon thread and sew up to 1/4 inch, maximum. These are the types of machines being sold by the eBay restorers and similar shops that specialize in old iron. I picked up a nice Singer 15-91 and totally rebuilt it, including the motor. It had a terrible time feeding 3/16" of leather, or two layers of Naugahyde. So, I bought a so-called walking foot attachment for it. This allowed me to sew the Naugahyde better, but cut down the clearance under the feet to 1/8 inch. The lift of the feet above that thickness caused the needle bar to hit the inside foot and damaged it. Don't be fooled by beautiful close up photos of restored old home sewing machines. They use close-up lenses to distort the actual size of the needle and thread being used. It appears to the untrained eye that these machines are sewing 12-14 ounce leather belting with #207 thread, when in fact they are sewing an 8-10 oz belt with #69 thread. That is all they can handle. Most home machine needles stop at size 18, which feeds #69 thread (and maybe #92). To sew with #207 thread requires a #24 or #25 needle! Home machines have a tiny motor, weighing about 1 pound, that is rated at between 1/2 to 1.5 amps, equaling 50 to 150 watts current draw. The horsepower rating of these motors ranges from about 1/25th to maybe 1/10th. A gear-reduced Thompson, or Sailrite produces the equivalent of about 1/5th HP. This is great punching power for denim, Naugahyde, duck cloth, plastic windscreens and even small upholstery projects. But, when it comes to penetrating 3 or 4 layers of 8 ounce veg-tan leather, with a #23 needle, threaded with #138 bonded nylon thread, 1/2 Horsepower is the minimum requirement. Most sewing machines that are set-up and or built to sew hard, thick leather, with serious thread, have very small pulleys on the motor, which tends to range from 1/2 to 3/4 HP, drawing from 300 to 600 watts. These motors then feed a large wheel on a speed reducer, which has another small pulley feeding up the the machine pulley. You will often see an overall speed reduction/torque multiplication of 5 to 15 times, from the same type of machine setup for use in upholstery or garment work. I had an Adler 204 flatbed machine, equipped with a 3/4 HP clutch motor (almost 50 pounds!), with a 2" motor pulley feeding a large difference speed reducer. The net outcome was a pedal down, blazing top speed of 2 stitches per second! This machine penetrated 3/4 inch of belt leather like it was butter! The same machine, as setup and sold to an upholstery shop, might produce about 800 to 1600 stitches per minute. That would be slow for most upholsters! Most upholstery machines clock in at around 2,000 stitches per minute. Most garment machines are made to sew at over 3,000 stitches per minute! These speeds are totally useless for sewing any leather other than upholstery grade. With veg-tan, or latigo, the slower, the better. I mentioned the difference in available needle sizes between home and industrial machines. There is more to it then just the diameter of the shaft. Home machines are designed to sew thin cloth and if they have a clearance under the foot of 3/8 inch, that is unusual. Also, the needles are short, in comparison to say, walking foot needles, and don't have much room between the needle bar and top of the pressor foot. Most have only 5/16" under the foot before the top thread tension release engages. Once that happens there is little or no tension on your top thread. This results in knots under the bottom layer and usually leads to jamming. The stitchers built for sewing heavy, thick leather have very long needles (~2 .5" ), allowing for high lifting of two alternating pressor feet while sewing through 3/4 inch plus of hard leather. Most of the 441 clone machines use series 7x3 and 794 needles, which start with #18 or 19 on the small end, but go up to #27, or even #30, on the big end. These needles are the diameter of the nails used to hold a wooden porch together! The flange that mounts inside the needle bar is about 1/8" diameter! The flange width (on the round sides) on a home sewing needle is just under 1/16 inch. The biggest home series needle I have found is a #20, which is straight from the mounting flange down. As I discussed much earlier in this thread, the bobbins are vastly different between home and industrial "sewing" machines and leather "stitchers." A home machine bobbin, like the Class 15, might hold a couple hundred feet of household cotton thread, or hundred feet or so of #69 nylon. The bobbins on the 441 clones can hold at over 5 times that amount of thread, in sizes 138 up (the thicker, the less). The bobbins used by my Union Lockstitch machine, measuring in at 2.5 x .75 inches, can hold about a football field length of #277 thread, tightly wound. Nuff said.

Get a magnet pickup tool and fish around the top of the shuttle compartment and also under it. Maybe the screw will get picked out.

Motor is okay. To sew close to the edge you must replace the outer pressor foot with a left toe only foot. If you can't find one, you can grind off the right toe on the one you have. Note, that this is a high speed textile machine (for denim garments and upholstery), even though it has a walking foot triple feed mechanism. It is not built to use thick thread, or sew dense leather.

I started making leather holsters as a sideline, in about 1985. Over a period of the next 15 years I hand produced and machine sewed several hundred, of all types. My first efforts were done on a straight stitch, cast iron, industrial Singer 96k40, which was woefully inadequate (actually, useless). So, I bought what I was told was a walking foot machine, only to discover that it was a spring foot machine, only good with #69 thread and again, useless for holsters, or anything much over 1/4" thick. I kept buying stronger looking machines, until I eventually found and bought one that was really capable of sewing with really thick thread, into 3/4" of leather. It stands about 2 feet tall, is 2 feet long and 1 foot deep, and weighs about 350 pounds. It is built entirely of American iron and steel. It uses a needle and awl to do the heavy sewing it is built for. The bobbins are 2.5" in diameter and almost 3/4" deep. They hold enough #346 thread to sew holsters for a small army. The needles have barbs near the top and some are a thick as the nails used to assemble a porch. This machine, which is designed to sew heavy leather and not break down, is a Union Lockstitch Machine and is going to be 101 years old on July 10, this year. It sews perfectly, with up to #554 bonded nylon, or up to 10 cord waxed linen thread. There are a class of modern machines that will do the same type of work as my old Union Lockstitch. They are known as 441 clones and are copies of the famous Juki 441. These machines are all built in China. The quality is improving as the dealers send feedback to the factories that build them. For 2.5k you can buy a brand new 441 clone, with a 16.5" long cylinder arm. That machine will sew over 3/4" of leather, with up to #415 bonded thread. There are table top attachments, and various feet and throat plates that let you sew holsters, harness, bridles, collars, leads and reins, cases, beaded lines, saddles, saddle bags, et, al. Anybody wanting to sew holsters needs to consider the purpose of the holster, when determining the size of thread and thickness of leather to be used. If the rig is for casual use, by a person who may never draw his or her gun in combat, then 2 layers of 6-7 ounce leather, sewn with 22 pound strength, #138 thread may do just fine. But, if the holster is going to be sold to an undercover cop, or duty officer, who might conceivably get into a life or death struggle for his weapon, you'll want the leather to be as heavy as can be molded to the gun and sewn with #277 or #346 bonded nylon thread. If it is a holster with a double leather side filler welt, you'll want to sew it with either #346 or #415 thread. If you actually believe that a Pfaff 130, or Singer 15, 31, 66, 99, 127 or a 29-anything, or any straight stitch industrial sewing machine is going to sew such a holster, with such thread, you are living in La-La Land.

The Yamata Fy 5318 is designed to sew with up to #138 thread, top and bottom, using a #22 needle. It will sew 5/16" of leather, or any other material. This is what we refer to as a standard, low-end upholstery grade sewing machine. It is not built for sewing veg-tan leather.

If you had left out the part about using the thickest thread possible, my recommendation would have been for a typical walking foot machine, like a Consew 206RB-5 and equivalent, or a Cowboy 227R cylinder arm walking foot machine. But, if I interpret your thread statement correctly, you want to sew holsters with at least #207 thread, if not #277, or 346. That leaves out both of the aforementioned types of machine. If you want to sew with truly heavy thread, like #277, and up, you will need to get a Juki 441 or Adler 205, or a clone of those machines. The least expensive 441 clones are 9" cylinder arm walking foot machines sold as Cobra, Cowboy, Artisan, Techsew and Ferdco brands, among others. All are capable of sewing with at least #415 thread, at thicknesses up to 7/8 inch. All have smooth feed dogs and harness pressor feet. You'll be looking at the vicinity of $1800, plus shipping for most 9 inch arm harness stitchers. The Adler 205 is sold by Weaver, to dealers and persons with a State sales tax number only. They sell for about $5500, plus shipping. Cowboy makes Adler 205 clones for a couple thousand less than the Adler price.

Yes, feed the oil into the well filler holes, until it saturates the wicks. Look over the machine for smaller holes in cranks and pivoting parts. Use a precision needle oiler to place a drop into each little hole. Some will be inside the front face plate, on the needlebar, pressor foot bars and take-up lever. There will be oil holes under the throat and bobbin cover plates and along the body, over the feed shafts.

That would be Barbour's 5 cord linen thread, equaling #346 bonded thread.

I have learned that the undercut beveler I want is actually a B61s - part of the saddle stamp group, which was sold by Tandy many years ago. It has a much wider handle than the common Craftools. Also, I learned that the round bevelers I am seeking were made in a series of three sizes, in both plain and checkered faces. They included numbers B 243, 244 (plain), 263 and 264 (checkered). The other size may be bigger, which would make it B245 or 265.

Justin; Your Reliable MSK-8600 seems to be a fairly standard upholstery grade walking foot machine. As such, it will probably sew up to 3/8" of medium temper leather, with #138 thread. It may sew one piece of 13 oz skirting with a 4-5 oz suede or veg split lining on the back, but that is the limit. You'll need to use a #22 leather point needle, with #138 thread, top and bottom. It will take all the tension you can apply to bring the knots up into the leather. You may have to tighten the pressor foot spring all the way down, to keep the needle from lifting the leather on its way up. The machine will be working very hard to sew this kind of payload. The pounding that you are going to impose on this poor machine will shorten what's left of its life. Hopefully, it will live long enough for you to save enough money to buy a proper big stitcher that is built for this kind of heavy duty sewing.

I used to have almost every tool that Tandy and Midas produced. However, I sold off all of those tools in 2005. I have since acquired a huge amount of tools, but cannot find these particular Craftools. I hope some members can help me out. The first type of beveler I am seeking is round and came in three diameters. It has a circular, smooth top and beveling face. They are used to bevel inside sharp curves. I don't know the model numbers. The next tool is a B-61, which is a large, smooth face, undercut beveler, used to lift carved leaves and flower petals. I have a B-60 and it is too narrow for much of my carving. A wider tool will produce fewer side marks. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I am also looking for a Z999 Right and straight tool to match my Z999 Left decorative cutter. Please contact me via PM if you can sell me any of these vintage tools. PS: I have already looked on eBay. If these were ever available, I missed them. I'll keep watching though.