Wizcrafts

Neither. I ordered a 23" x 1/4" cogged belt for older Singer home sewing machines. It is a number 2314 belt. This belt will be long enough to allow me to mount the motor up alongside the back of the body, as opposed to down along the rear of the machine's support platform. I will grind down the edge of the motor mount that is interfering with the raised center area on my machine mounting platform, or drill and tap another hole for it, to the right of the first one.

The leather belt was on the big pulley. The vinyl belt is too short, so I just ordered a 23 inch cogged belt. I may also go for a cogged pulley with a 1/4" diameter hole. This will require me to relocate the motor to just behind the body, on top of the rear platform. It will also require me to drill and tap a second hole, to adjust the tension on the new belt. Right now it is on the back side of the platform. Would you have a link to the product page for that tubing?

I just moved my side motor up and found that it lacks one inch of being able to just connect to a 21 inch ribbed pulley (to the big pulley on the machine). Hunting for a #2214 or 2314 home machine pulley... The motor powers the machine in the smaller pulley, but groans and needs help to get into motion. Not good for the life of this motor.

The large pulley on the machine is 6" diameter. It is stock for this series of patcher. If you have an older model, it may have a different width pulley. The diameter of the pulley is not the most important factor. 5.5", 6"; not a big difference when the motor has a 3/4" pulley. Getting a firm grip on the motor pulley, with a leather belt, is the challenge. I am searching right now for longer home style machine belts. It appears that the embroidery machines have very long cogged 1/4" belts. If I find one that is 27 inches long I'll buy it and see if it works any better. If your patcher has a flat back and you can mount the motor directly behind the head, on top of the base, with the bracket facing down, then a 21 inch belt will fit it. I cannot mount the motor that way, without carving up the bracket, because my machine has a raised mid-section. If the slipping continues, I may have to resort to grinding off the front side of the bracket, and use a home machine belt. I think I saw a 23 incher somewhere on eBay... Here is a reduced photo of my current setup...

The motor I used is an AlphaSew 150 watt home motor. This is the most powerful motor of this type. It has a solid state foot control pedal. The only problem I have is a bit of slippage of the leather belt, until the wheel gets into motion. I am searching for a longer rubber or vinyl belt, which won't slip much at all. Once the AlphaSew motor starts the machine sewing, it keeps going until I stop it. The reduction factor is really high, going from the tiny pulley on the motor to the large pulley on the machine. The price I mentioned was everything, including the thin leather belt and C clip. But, I already had a tap to thread the hole for the bolt. The machine can still be operated by the hand wheel, even with the belt attached.

If none of your existing machines are suitable for heavy webbing, what may I ask is the thickness, width and thread size you need to sew?

What about a long body Chandler 406? This machine can sew heavy webbing for sure and is also very useful for large tarps, covers, sails, car wash cloths, etc.

Here is a picture of the same size motor, ready to be installed on a flat back patcher, in such a position as to be able to use a 21" home style no slip ribbed belt...

In order for you to mount a servo motor on that machine you will need cut out the space between the existing belt holes (unless you assemble the belt with a c-clip), and drill some mounting holes in the iron base and maybe even add a wooden platform for the motor to bolt onto. I found a cheaper and easier solution for my long arm patcher, with parts I bought from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397). See the photo below. The kit came with a 21 inch ribbed vinyl belt which was too short for this particular machine. That's why I used a thin leather belt. It works okay after I sprayed it with belt no slip spray. Total investment was about $100 and an hour of my time figuring out where to drill and tap the hole. The 5/16" x 18 screw was included. I have my own 1/4" drill and 5/16x18 tap. If your machine is flat across the back, you can mount the motor with the bracket facing down and use the 21 inch vinyl belt, which gives much better grip.

It zigs and zags and does the Sugarfoot Rag!

Contact Bob Kovar, owner of Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397) for replacement parts for your 29-4 patcher. The loose stitch length puck will need brazing on to take up the slack, inside the rig it rotates in. The lack of lift may be caused by incorrect placement of the movable lift puck, that slides along a cutout in the leaf spring on the back. You should take some good close up pictures of the machines, all the way around it and from the top. This will reveal missing, or misaligned parts to those who want to help you.

The Singer 29-4 has a dime sized bobbin that holds a little bit of thread. That's why cobblers tend to thread them with #69 bonded nylon. It is thin thread that has 11 pounds test. You won't be sewing any holsters on a 29-4. You will find uses for it down the road. It can sew up the snout. In fact, the sewing head rotates 360 degrees and the feed is performed entirely by the pressor foot. You are correct about using #277 thread for sewing holsters. I use that size regularly. It has about 44 pounds test strength. By comparison, #138 thread has 22 pounds test. Physically, #138 is half the diameter of 277. The machines that sew with #277 and larger thread do not do so well with thin leather or thinner threads, like #69. That's why most professional leather workers have more than one machine. I have three industrial machines right now. In the past I had up to a dozen. I use a long arm patcher for odd jobs, or jobs that need to be sewn up the snout. I have a heavy duty modified walking foot machine for medium duty sewing, up to 7/16 inch, with #138 to 207 thread, or less. Finally, I have a monster machine, built entirely in the USA, that makes 441 clones look like toys, which sews through pennies and wood, if necessary. It uses incomprehensibly large thread (8 to 10 cord linen, or, #554 bonded) if necessary. But, I have it loaded with #277, which it sews like melted butter. The bobbins are 2 1/2 inches in diameter and 3/4 inch wide. It is a true harness stitching machine.

I forgot to mention the needles used in the old 29-4 patchers. As I found on my last one, it didn't like the 29x system needles, preferring the 1138 straight stitch system. The most commonly used sizes will be #16 and #18 (100 and 110 metric). I sometimes use a #14 needle with standard garment weight cotton, or a #12 (metric 80) with monocord invisible thread. If I sew with #92 thread, I might use a #20 needle. For #138 thread, I use a #22 needle. I always prefer leather point needles in a patcher. There is no point in stocking round points, as these machines are not normally used to sew cloth projects too often. The availability of the system 29x4 leather point needles is diminishing, therefore, dealers sell series 135x16 as a replacement. They work in most type 29K patchers, but NOT usually in the pre K series (29-4, or earlier). Although my 29K172 has a large bobbin and is capable of sewing with #138 thread, it is normally threaded with #69. I stock #69 thread in a wide variety of colors, on small "patcher" 1 ounce spools. These spools are not available in larger thread numbers. I also buy 4 ounce spools of #69, wherever the price is best. Number 69 thread lasts a long time in the large bobbins. Therefore, my most used needles are #16 and #18.

A Singer 29-4 is made to patch shoe and boot uppers and sew patches onto vests. It can also be used to replace zippers on jackets and pants. Oter good uses include sewing Velcro onto bags and repairing tears in purses. The sewing capacity of the Singer 29-4 is 1/4 inch under the foot. The practical thread handling capacity is #92, but #69 goes further. The stitch length varies with the thickness being sewn and condition of the stitch length regulator system (inside the bottom of the head). At 6 ounces, you can expect to achieve no better than 5 to the inch. At 1/4" that drops to 6 or 7 to the inch. If the part that controls the stitch length is badly worn, which is typically the case for 100 year old patchers, the maximum stitch length drops to 8 or less, for light leather and 10 or worse at 1/4 inch. Some old patchers are so worn out that you may have to pull the leather through to get any stitch length at all. Here is how to test the feed, to determine if the machine is shot: Lift the pressor foot lift lever, behind the head, or, rotate the wheel until the needle is down and the foot has lifted up. Take a hold of the pressor foot and see how far you can push or pull it, straight back or forward. Everything beyond 1/64" of free motion is that much less than the design maximum length. A brand new, or fully rebuilt stitch length regulator cam may not even have 1/64" free play (mine barely moves). I once bronze welded onto the worn regulator on one of my old patchers, then filed and polished the "puck" part, to the point of only the minimum clearance needed to rotate and activate the drive mechanism. This yielded a full 5 stitches to the inch, into 3/16" of veg-tan leather. The "later" models of Singer patchers, with the larger bobbin, can easily sew with #138 thread, or 3 to 4 cord Irish linen. Bottom line is; if the feed mechanism has very little free motion (fwd or bkwd) and the wheel turns freely and everything moves without any binding, and no springs or tensioners are missing, and the stitch length adjuster is in place above the foot, and the teeth aren't worn or ground off the foot, it is definitely worth $200, for the head alone. If you can get the machine, mounted on the cast iron base for $200, buy it anyway, then fix it up for a couple hundred more, or bronze weld the worn out parts.

Make sure the needle is inserted with the scarf side to the right and the long ridge on the left. The eye faces due left-right and must be threaded from left to right. The bobbin should go in with the thread feeding clockwise, through the slot in the case, firmly under the little spring (which should be adjusted for modicum of pressure on the thread), up through the hole in the bobbin case, through the thread hole in the bobbin case post (long arm models only), then out the hole in the throat plate. Next item is the take-up lever and adjuster. You need to adjust the spring on the take-up lever just strong enough to pull the lever all the way up on the upstroke of the needle. Heavy thread makes it harder for the spring to lift the take-up lever. Therefore, the newer machines have a helped adjusted behind the take-up stud. You turn the spring loaded thumb nut clockwise to add lift, and vice verse. The additional take-up can also help when sewing thick or very dense leather. Finally, there is a thin long spring with a paddle shape at the bottom, which fits inside the lower section of the needlebar, just above the needle mounting block. If this spring is missing, broken, or bent out of shape, the top thread flops around in the needlebar and this can cause skipped stitches.

I don't know about Highlead machines, but Art does. You should ask him if he knows how to adjust the backstitch position. Or, ask the dealer from whom you bought the machine. Alternately, check the manual for details about adjustments. I backstitch on a Cobra Class 4 at work, using a Schmetz #23 leather S point needle (#138 or #207 thread), and there is no ratting of the previous stitches. It sews perfectly into the holes in reverse.

The timing of the shuttle is done under the arm, by the relationship of the rack and pinion gears. If somebody has removed the bottom cover (under the gears), they may have moved the little rounded gears in relation to the racks. One round gear is an idler. The last one to the left drives the shuttle. You should turn the throat plate aside and rotate the wheel while watching the action of the needle. When the needle comes all the way down it rocks up slightly then waits a few degrees, then ascends. It is during the rise and wait portion of the cycle that the loop is formed. The shuttle moves counterclockwise to pick up the thread during this phase, as the motion continues and the needle ascends. If you see the needle go down and enter the wait phase and find that the shuttle pickup point is not rotating into the scarf above the eye of the needle, either the timing is off, or the point on the bobbin case is worn or chipped short. A worn out or chipped pickup point retards the timing. If the point is good, but passes by the eye of the needle before the loop forming portion, it needs to be retarded by one tooth. If it passes by after the needle has begun its ascent, try advancing it one tooth. First, make sure that the little screw that secures the drive gear is present and in all the way. It fastens into a threaded hole in the stud under the shuttle and drives it. A loose set screw could allow the shuttle to have too much slack. A missing set screw would allow the shuttle to rotate completely out of time. Another thing that affects the timing is the length of the needle. If it is incorrect for that machine, the timing will be off. I had a 29-4 two years ago and could not effectively use series 29x 3 or 4 needles in it. They were slightly too long and skipped stitches a lot. I ended up using a shorter industrial needle system that I had laying around from a straight stitch Singer. This fixed the skipped stitches. I believe the needles were system 1138, 16x257, 16x231, or a similar number.

A bunch of our members own either the CB2500, or the GA5-1, which is the same machine in a different skin. These are a good machine for heavy duty sewing, with thick thread. I am not sure that leather handbags would require such a heavy duty machine, nor the big needles and heavy thread these machines are made to use. They use thread sizes 138 and up and needles from #22 or 23, up. They sew to 7/16" and are best used with hard leather (belts, straps, bridles, reins, collars, leashes, holsters). Typically, the CB2500 is setup with a #25 or 26 needle and threaded with #277 or #346 bonded nylon thread. Tell me more details about the leather handbags. Things like the type of leather (chrome tan, veg-tan, latigo, bridle), thickness being sewn (from - to), thread size and type you want to use, speed you want to sew at, and arm/body depth you need to rotate the bags freely as you fancy stitch them. These details will help us suggest the best machine for these bags.

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines has dozens of flatbed walking foot machines, from most well known brands, including the Chandler you mentioned (I saw a bunch of Chandlers there last year). Call them at 866-362-7397 and see what they can do for you. The website, as it is currently, is featuring the Cowboy cylinder arm leather stitcher line and the Consew 206RB flatbed upholstery machine. That doesn't mean that they have no other machines. On the contrary, there are hundreds of industrial machines in the building. They actually prefer doing sales over the phone.

Sorry, I missed the part about the machines being in a local shop that was closing down. Take some leather over there and try them out. The company must have thread on hand and needles. If they sew what you want a machine to sew, buy it or them. If not, keep looking. I worked my way up through over a dozen industrial sewing machines before I found the right one for what I was making at that time.

Most of our dealers only list their new machines on their websites. Used machines come and go. Some are on shelves, waiting to be cleaned, adjusted, setup and shipped only when sold. That's why there are no used machines listed on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website. There are hundreds of used machines in the building, and hundreds more in his storage location. His phone number is listed prominently on the top and bottom of every page. I have to believe that the same holds true for just about every other dealer on this forum. They are all sewing machine dealers who happen to specialize in leather capable sewing machines and true heavy leather stitchers. You have been asking for our opinions about machines mostly offered by eBay dealers, or other auction sites. I can't help you in that area, but, maybe someone can and will. Unless one of our dealers is also selling on eBay, my sewing machine loyalties tend to stay on this forum, with only a few minor exceptions (mostly accessories). I have yet to see an eBay seller recommend someone look on our forums for a real leather sewing machine. One should also consider what type of support they can expect from the seller, no matter where they have their store. EBayers may offer you email or eBay Messages support, and some may give you a daytime West Coast phone number to call in the event of an emergency. But, very few will pick up the phone after hours and talk you through a self repair to re-time or un-jam your machine, or email you a how its threaded picture. Our people are noted for their customer support after the sale. Some of our people will only answer the phone when they are in their business. Others may give their customers a private cellphone number, for help anytime. About shipping costs. I have a personal friend who just recently shipped a complete Adler patcher and cast iron base, from Flint Michigan to upper California, on a pallet, for $220 (they manually loaded it onto the trailer from a pickup truck, saving $40 for a lift gate fee). A fully assembled walking foot machine (w/motor and table, etc) wouldn't cost much, if any more, shipped on a pallet to South Texas. Rates vary between trucking companies and competition is strong for freight, right now. For those who already have a spare table, frame and motor, having a 70 pound head only shipped usually costs somewhere about $40 to $50, via UPS or FedEx. But, some folks think they will save money by buying a head from one dealer and a table/frame/motor/ bobbin winder/thread stand/ flex lamp from another. They are usually mistaken and end up paying considerably more that way.

If you have a Facebook profile you can upload your music there and make it playable in the Facebook Player. Other FB members could listen to your stuff. Or, if you have a website, you can upload your music in .mp3 or .wav format and provide a link to the file in your profile. There are other services that allow users to upload their recordings, like Reverbnation.com. Sending music by email can be time consuming for the sender and recipient, depending on the filesize. If the complete tune is in mp3 format and weighs in at 1 or 2 MB, it won't take too long to up/download via email. That assumes you are using broadband ISP, as I am, and that they allow large attachments. Personally, I recommend you to create a personal website, promoting your talents, if you haven't done so already. To answer the question about the Landis: it is not easy to learn to sew on such a machine unless you have had a lot of prior experience with various types of industrial sewing machines, or shoe repair equipment. If you do buy that machine (why would you?), you should find a close by shoe repair shop that has a similar model, to teach you how to use the machine. The sole stitchers are not like typical leather sewing machines. They are horses of a different color (usually green). We have some members in Lusianne. Look them up and see if any are near you. Maybe one will have an extra machine they can let go of cheap, or in exchange for some horn or reed lessons. To the tune of Tear Stained Letter, by Jo-El Sonnier

Cowcamp; Do you realize that you are now willing to spend the kind of money that will probably get you a really good used machine from one of our dealers; one already setup to sew leather and guaranteed to work? Have you called any of our dealers yet? I know Bob Kovar personally and have been to his building, in Toledo, Ohio. It is over-run with sewing machines, of all types of feed and configuration. His toll free business number is 866-362-7397.

Tackgirl; You may or may not be getting a good deal on the used machines. As I have often written, just because a sewing machine is an industrial machine, it may not necessarily be good at sewing leather, such as we use on this forum. Our leather projects are not usually seat covers, although we may make some now and then. Most of the leather crafters haunting Leatherworker.net are making a wide variety of items, including many that are constructed from dense and often thick leather. We like to use heavy bonded nylon thread that is capable of holding these items together against strong external forces. When we go a-lookin' for a leather sewin machine, we have a whole nuther kind a machine in mind. Let me explain. The machines you posted the pictures of are upholstery grade machines. They are great for sewing drapes, seat covers, couch covers, boat covers, sails, awnings, even jeans. Yes, they will sew leather. But, how fast are they setup to sew? What type of tension springs are they equipped with? How high do the feet lift and alternate? What needle system do they use? How big are the bobbins? How tight is the mechanism? how thick is the take-up lever and its crank shaft? How heavy is the flywheel? Is the wheel and machine balanced? Any good, modern walking foot machine, with strong, good steel take-up and moving parts, can be modified to become an efficient leather sewing machine. You want one that is already in good condition and is able to clear at least 7/16 to 8/16 inch under the fully raised presser feet. If equipped with a system 135x16 or 135x17 needle, they can effectively sew through 3/8 inch of material. If everything is tight and the take-up lever is not worn with a thread groove, and the springs are replaced with heavier tension springs, it can be made to sew 3/8 inch of leather. If equipped with system 190 needles, they can sew to almost 1/2 inch! Here's what else you need to do to accomplish this goal: First, the speed is important. Leather cannot be sewn at high speeds like garment machines run at. It will smoke from friction and melt the thread, and burn the leather. Upholsters like their machines to run at 2000 rpm. As one upholsterer put it to me, when I asked why his machines ran so fast: "time is money." A machine spinning at 2000 rpm is great is you're sewing fabric, canvas, or sometimes vinyl, but not leather. Even 1000 rpm is way too fast for leather. I see smoke from the needle at 600 rpm! If you want your machine to sew mostly leather, the top speed should be under 600 rpm. Most crafters have theirs set to 320, 160, or less. I had an Alder 204 that had a clutch motor and a speed reducer. It's full speed, pedal down, was 2 stitches per second! That's only 120 rpm. If the motor is a clutch motor running at 3450 RPM, lose the motor. Sell it off. If it is a 1st generation high speed, low torque servo motor, sell it off. If it is a 1725 rpm clutch motor with less than 1/2 horsepower, get rid of it. If it is 1/2 HP and has a pulley larger than 2.25 inches, replace the pulley with the smallest one you can buy. 2 inches is perfect, in my opinion. Your goal is to equip it with a motor that has a lot of punching power at all speeds, but can easily be made to sew slowly, by foot. For clutch motors, that means learning to feather the clutch. For servos, they have a knob or up/down speed limiter buttons, to set the top speed. Some have more actual range of foot control that others. If you have to replace the motor, I recommend the one I bought to replace my clutch motor. This is the .SewPro500GR, sold by Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397). It has a built in 3:1 gear reducer and a 2 inch pulley. While it bolts into the same holes as the original clutch motor, it sits closer to the table. So, when buying a new belt, you need to choose one that is not only an equal amount shorter than the original pulley to new pulley diameter, but you must subtract one inch more for the closer body profile. With a walking foot machine slowed down to a controllable speed, your next concern is the size of the bobbin. If you only want to sew thin leather, using #69 bonded nylon thread, a standard industrial class 15 bobbin will do fine. But, load that bobbin up with #138 thread, and you cut your sewing distance in half, per bobbin load. So, most leather sewing machines are equipped with a large bobbin. Most of them use the M size, which holds 50% more than the standard bobbin. Juki LU machine large bobbins hold double the standard size! All of these facts relate to industrial flat bed machines, like those you asked for opinions on. If you want to buy a used, or new upholstery grade machine, be prepared to pay to modify it to sew leather. You can probably save a lot of expense and aggravation by contacting our dealers and asking what they can sell you at a price you are willing to pay. Let them know what you intend to sew and you will get a machine that fits your needs. Additionally, you get dealer support. You probably won't get that if you buy a used machine from a warehouse, or Chinese import off the boat.

Charlie Cat, my trumpeting friend from N'orleans, that Landis 12K is only good for sewing new soles onto shoes and boots. It is of no other use. The thread it uses is 6 or 7 cord right twist Barbour's Irish Linen Thread, run through a wax pot. This "thread" is thicker than the string used to bundle most meat packages or fly a kite. There is very little depth inside the curved needle area. It is designed to sew along the outside perimeter of shoes. It can also sew knife sheathes and holsters, certainly up to 1/2 inch thick. But, no reverse, and no turning the work around to backtack. Another thing you should know: a Landis 12K weighs in at around 500 or 600 pounds, in 3 square feet and usually ships with a 3 phase 220 volt motor. Are you sure you want a machine like that for your first sewing machine? This not so good news is played to the tune of Basin Street Blues