Wizcrafts

I wish I had a one way treadle on my long arm Singer patcher! It is fine when already in motion. But, when I stop and restart, I often have to hand wheel over the "hump" to get it to run forward.

Your needle/thread chart matches my personal experience. I have bought thread on eBay that comes in the cord/size and in T designations. I use charts I found online to cross reference these numbers with the sizes I am familiar with. The most common difference is nylon thread is between the B or V numbers and the T numbers. For instance, B or V, or # 69 is the same as T70, while #277 equals T270, which is the same as 4 cord linen. Confused yet?

For anybody else who wants to sew leather, bobbinless, there are some time-proven, heavy duty, leather sewing, needle and awl chainstitch machines still being produced by the Puritan company. I came very close to buying one for cheap, several years ago. These machines are best used with waxed linen thread, which won't unravel if one stitch breaks. They are used to sew golf bags, briefcases, luggage, boots, shoes, gun cases, bowling ball bags, and other items that need a very strong stitch, the back of which is not usually seen. Other industrial machines already exist that perform a chain stitch. Most of these machines are not strong enough to sew leather and can't use waxed linen thread.

Caffy; If your holsters are only going to be two layers of 9 oz veg-tan leather, a 227 type machine will do fine. But, it will be limited to using #138 thread. Most holsters are sewn with #277 thread, or thicker. To use heavier thread you will need to move up to a more capable sewing machine. Some of the heavy weight sewing machines currently in use by our members are sold by Cobra, Cowboy, Artisan, Ferdo, Techsew, Adler, Campbell-Randall and Juki. Most of these companies have stitchers capable of sewing to and beyond 3/4 inch of hard leather. There are some that are fed by feed dogs on the bottom; some that have triple feed and some that have a needle and awl and jumping foot. Since you are a beginner to industrial sewing machines, I would recommend that you use a simple to operate machine, like the ones we refer to as 441 clones. Based on the Juki 441 type, these machines come with cylinder arms in lengths of 9" up to 25". You might do fine with a 9" model, such as the Cowboy CB3500, Cobra Class 3, or equivalent in other brands. These 9 inch stitchers can be bought for about $1,800, plus shipping (some are more, some are less). If you think ahead you'll anticipate that someone will ask you to build something too large to be sewn on a 9" arm machine. Fore-planning suggests a 16.5" arm machine, like the Cowboy CB4500, or Cobra Class 4, etc. These machines all use very thick thread, huge needles and have very large bobbins. All are sold with easy to control servo motors and speed reducers. These machines sew over 3/4 inch and sell for $2500, plus or minus, plus shipping. The reason for the plus or minus in the pricing is that most dealers offer accessory packages that are optional. Also, prices may be going up due to money market factors.

Ronnie; I dream about sewing machines all the time! Tapokita, tapokita

Tat2 and Bob; Do you guys realize you were replying to a topic that is almost three years old now and hasn't been updated since the summer of 2008?

Sorry we had that misunderstanding. I posted this ad as a favor to the fellow I work for on a part time basis. It is his machine. I think it is a good deal because of all the dozens of extra blades and custom made spacers included with it and the work he had done to add grease fittings and sealed bearings. That machine flat out slices leather backs and bends into straps. All of the sewing machines that M&M had for sale have been sold already.

Chris; Call Campbell-Bosworth (800-327-9420) and ask if their N&A machines will sew biothane effectively. Maybe they can get some and sew it together for you as a sample. Then you can assess the result. Since you're in Ohio, if you can get some biothane straps you could take them to Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397), or Ryan's Saddlery in Lima Ohio (866-507-8926), and see if one of their various Cowboy stitchers will sew it properly. It believe that you can do this by using a size larger needle than normal to open a bigger hole, with #277 or #346 thread. The tensioning and take-up parts are plenty strong and can easily handle the added strain. These machines are very powerful and can be run very slowly, with huge amounts of punching power at slow speeds.

Chris; I realize that I provided an overwhelming amount of information in the sticky article I posted. But, you can read a little at a time to get the best understanding of the different types of machines and their feed mechanisms. You asked what other than the sewing thickness capacity you should look for in a harness stitcher. Let me try to help you with that. Harness, halters and bridles are usually made of bridle or harness leather. It is usually of medium temper and marks quite easily (although marks can be rubbed out) and is hot stuffed with waxes. A harness stitching machine will have one of the following types of feed system: 1: needle and awl jumping foot; 2: needle feed jumping foot; 3: compound feed, with smooth or no feed dog. 1: Needle and Awl Machines. Campbell-Randall and Union Lockstitch (ULS) machines are the best of class needle and awl machines and are used by the top harness and holster builders. They use either glazed linen thread run through a wax pot, or bonded polyester (or nylon) thread. Most show harness is sewn on a Randall using 4 cord, left twist, Barbour's Irish linen thread, run through Lax Wax or another pourable liquid wax. Four cord linen is sewn with a #1.5 (170) or #2 (180) needle and a #2 (180) or 2.5 (190) awl.The equivalent bonded thread is 207 or 277. The difference is that linen thread is very soft and flexible (until the wax hardens) and bonded polyester is considerably harder. Nylon thread is even harder than polyester and is much harder on the take-up system, when it comes time to pull up the locked stitches. I use bonded nylon in my ULS without much problem. There are two styles of Campbell-Randall stitcher: standard lift (3/4") and high lift (1 1/8"). The ULS is capable of clearing just a smidgen over 3/4" of material. They are both capable of sewing thin leather, down to 6-8 ounces, using 3 cord linen or #138 polyester, all the way up to 8 or 10 cord linen (#554 bonded), by changing the needle and awl combinations. The Randall and Union Lockstitch machines have true square drive. The Randall uses a moving awl to stab, then pull the leather back the preset stitch length. The ULS uses the needle to pull the leather back. Both move the needle or awl straight back, rather than pivoting them from above, like standard machines do. This eliminates the pendulum stitch length problem when very thick leather has shorter stitches on top than on the bottom, or than thinner leather has. It is a fact of physics that causes this stitch length variance in pivoting needle machines. Randall and ULS machines can sew through soft metal and plywood, if you use a large enough awl. This comes in handy when sewing briefcases, luggage, or items backed with plastic (saddlebags, seats). What needle and awl machines don't do very well is to sew nylon webbing! I have done it and done it well, but you have to make sure that you use the smallest needle that will hold the thread, so as to completely fill the barb of the needle with thread. This leaves very little exposed barb to catch and rip the nylon or polyester webbing, or buffing wheels. This works for me. Also, needle and awl machines require great care to turn the work around and back tack into previous stitches. The barb, if exposed, can rip out the bottoms of the previous stitches. To counteract this I turn the leather at an angle that points the previous stitch line away from the barb as it descends, as I back stitch. With care, it works fine. 2: Jumping foot needle feed machines. Few and far between anymore. The old Number 9 and later Luberto Classics, along with most Ferdinand Bull machines (and I think the Adler 105 or 205-64?) have a needle feed and jumping foot. There is no feed dog on these machines, making them a great choice for saddle and harness makers. Like the needle and awl machines they have a slot in the throat cover plate, big enough to allow the needle to move its full potential stitch length. Most makers offered plates with narrow or wide slots. But, most of these machines are now out of production. I do believe you can still get Ferdinand Bull machines, but am not familiar with their current feed systems. They used a system called square drive, where the needle was pulled straight back, rather than pivoting from an axle on the top. This allows them to sew through very thick multi-layer leather without any difference in the entry and exit hole positions, as mentioned earlier. These jump foot machines are capable of sewing with large needles and thick thread; usually up to #554. 3: Compound feed machines. This is the most common stitching machine in use by leather makers today. Based either upon the German Adler 205-374, or the Japanese Juki 441, these Chinese clone machines look and sew just as good as the originals they are copied from. They are much less expensive than their ancestors. These are walking foot triple feed machines, where the inside pressor foot, the needle and the feed dog all move at the same speed and distance (except for pendulum effect in very thick material). This results in positive feeding of the material. The original machines shipped with teeth on the feed dogs and sometime also one the pressor feet. Most of the current importers and sellers of these clones will remove the standard dog and feet and equip the machines with so-called harness feet, and a smooth feed dog. This produces a very nice stitch and not too much puckering on the bottom. The 441 clones are usually available with cylinder arms of 9", 12.5", 16.5" and 25", depending on the brand. The 9" are referred to as mini-stitchers. The 25" are sold to saddle makers or people repairing buggy fenders. Most crafters use the 16 1/2" arm machines. The Adler and its clones have 12" or 25" arms. Most of these machines can sew between 3/4 and 7/8 inch of leather, using a large needle and sewing very very slowly. They come with powerful servo motors that have speed limiter controls (single rotary knob or up-down buttons) and speed reducer wheels between the motor and machine. They all have various accessories and optional items available, including non-standard single toe pressor feet, raised throat plates, box corner attachments, flat table attachments, swing-away roller edge guides, and wax/lube pots. Not every company carries all of these accessories, but they can be had by shopping around. Pricing Needle and awl machines are extremely expensive new (~$10k), very expensive rebuilt (~$3600), and expensive used but fixed up (~$2500). Most sell used for what a 16.5" 441 clone sells for brand new, which is about $2500 USD. Adler 205-370/374 machines sell for way over $5000 new. Weaver is the main dealer of Adler machines and they only sell to people with a tax license for their state, who open accounts. That means that a leathercrafter who is just expanding his business and not yet established as a retailer, or who only contract sews and needs no license, can't buy a machine directly from Weaver. Most of these folks buy a 441 clone, or Adler clone, from one of the dealers who are members of this forum and for half what Weaver charges for an Adler. The only license they need is a big handful of long wheelbase 10's. Weaver has lost tons of sales because of their policy about requiring State licenses and accounts, but they probably care as little as I care about them. Crafters on a smaller budget can buy a 9" arm stitcher for well under $2000, plus shipping, all set up and well equipped. The newer models sew over 3/4" of leather and do it very well. These mini-stitchers will sew holsters up to nine inches turning distance. This might leave out makers of long barrel Western holsters, unless you only edge stitch the outside perimeter. But, you will be able to sew knife sheaths, pouches and cases, chaps, belts, wallets, etc. If you know you won't be sewing any hard leather projects exceeding 9 inches to the right of the needle, a mini-stitcher may be perfect for you. If you're not so sure about the distance requirement, buy a longer arm machine and don't worry about it anymore. Whatever type of machine you are considering for your shop, make sure you can still get needles (& awls), bobbins, replacement parts that normally wear and help if something goes wrong (see below). Lastly, you need to consider the availability of phone assistance with minor operating problems and actual machine repairs and servicing, should something jam or break. Most or all of our dealers offer phone support, or at least email support. Most will send you parts so that you can repair a damaged part yourself, rather than shipping the whole machine back by truck. But, if the worst happens, and as Forrest Gump said: __it happens, our dealers will try to repair a badly damaged machine at their location and send it back to you repaired, if possible. What I am saying is if the machine falls off the table and onto a concrete floor and the case cracks open and bearing housings are exposed, it might not be repairable. But, I'm not the one to say what a torch Wizard can or can't do! Now, go get you a machine!

1:) I will talk you out of buying a Campbell Randall machine to use in your shop. Buy it and have it shipped to me instead! ;-) 2:) The biggest piece of advice I can give you is to go to Yoakum Texas and get instruction on the premises, where the machines are sold. If after being shown how to thread and operate the machine you still cannot Grok it, see suggestion #1.

I have one set of pressor feet that I use a lot on rifle slings. They are left toe only. The original outside foot was leaving a really visible harsh line in the raised portion of the foam padded area and I got complaints. So I took the outer foot to my sander/buffer and radiused the the outside bottom edge, then buffed it to a high polish. This foot now leaves almost invisible, but smooth tracks that can be rubbed out easily. I also polished the inside bottom edge.

A narrower needle requires less top pressure to keep the leather from lifting as the needle ascends. If you were using a #22 needle and #138 thread top and bottom, changing to a #21 needle, with #138 on top and #92 in the bobbin will give a good tight stitch, with knots well into the leather. But, the pressure required to hold down the leather is reduced. Therefore, you can back off the top pressure spring, or springs if you have two, reducing the visibility of any foot marks. A side benefit to a smaller needle is a smaller exit hole on the bottom.

The SewPro 500GR only draws a single watt when not engaged. It draws 300 watts at full load. Mine has never even gotten hot to the touch. By contrast, the 1/2 horsepower motor it replaced drew about 550 watts and could warm my expando in idle. The motor makes no sound in idle and it's easy to forget it is switched on. Remember to switch it off when it's not in use. You wouldn't want your kid or pet to accidentally push on the floor pedal and start the machine running.

If the motion feed crank has a worn down feed puck, you can braze bronze onto it, then shape it with a file, then buff it to a polished finish. If you take your time and get the clearance and ends shaped just loose enough to allow the crank to turn 360 degrees, you will get the maximum stitch length possible (~5/inch). I did this to two Singer patchers and both gave 5 stitches per inch after the bronze build up job.

You would use a #24 needle with 207 thread. Use a leather point needle for leather and a regular point for cloth and vinyl.

Use a combination of tactics, including backing off the outer foot pressure, coupled with moving down one needle size with the same thread, or two sizes with the next thread size down. You may need to run the top thread through a lube pot to get it to feed properly in an undersized needle. Next, replace the throat plate with a narrow slotted plate, if possible. If you have a wide toe pressor foot set, change to it. This distributes the pressure more evenly than narrow toe feet. If the machine is not walking foot, use a Teflon foot to reduce marks on top. Aslo, a couple layers of masking tape under the foot track will absorb the foot marks, which allowing the leather to feed, if it is a walking foot, triple feed, or needle feed machine.

The link is on the last word in the sentence: "here" Links with anchor text, instead of a URL, don't normally have blue color on this forum. They are black, just like the default text color. Look for underlined words in posts and hover over them. If they are links, the pointer will change as you hover over that word. I guess we should start using the text color button next to the Fonts selection box, to color links blue, to make them more obvious. Just create a link, then drag your mouse across the word or words to highlight them. Then, go up to the button to the immediate right side of the Fonts box and click on it. The color palette will open and allow you to click on a color to apply it to the highlighted selection.

A mint condition Singer patcher is lucky to sew 5 stitches per inch; and only in relatively thin leather. I get 5/inch maximum when sewing under 8 ounces. After 8 ounces it begins to decline fast. The only way to get long stitches at 1/4" is to help the material, by pulling it behind the foot. There are some adjustments that affect stitch length. The lift of the foot can reduce your maximum length. I set my foot to maximum lift, always. This is not what the manual recommends, but it works for me. If your machine has a long tension spring on the back, the sliding puck near the front end controls the lift. Move it all the way towards the back, where the notch is in the metal. That is your maximum lift location. If the machine uses a sliding metal lever and block with L-M-H engraved, on the back of the head, loosen the wing-nut and move the lever forward, to the H position. The puck at the back should just be out of contact with the lever protruding from the rear of the head, which lifts to foot as the machine rotates. If there is too much clearance before the lever engages, foot lift and stitch length will suffer. Adjust as necessary. You do need sufficient pressure on the foot to pull the material. Tighten the spring a bit and see if this helps. Old patchers tend to wear out under the head, in the ring that causes the foot to mover forward and backward. See how much slack there is when you rotate the machine to lift the foot, then push and pull on the foot. Any motion beyond about 1/16" will limit your maximum stitch length. At 1/8" free motion, the machine is shot and the mechanism needs replaced or rebuilt.

It appears to be a garment sewing machine. It is difficult to make out the feed system from these photos, but, it seems to be flat foot, bottom feed. The thread cones on the thread stand are cotton or polycore, such as is used in the manufacturing of clothes. Will it work for sewing leather? That depends on the feed system, how high the pressor foot lifts and what the largest needle size is for this type of machine. Most garment factories ordered machines that were designed for fast (high speed) sewing of relatively thin, not-dense cloth articles, using soft cotton or polycore thread. Jeans are built on heavier duty machines (walking foot) than shirts and pants (straight needle, flat foot). This machine, at a distance, looks like a shirt and pants machine. If my assessment is correct, you will need to replace the motor pulley with a much smaller one, or add a speed reducer pulley system, or replace the entire motor with a servo motor. Otherwise, it will be uncontrollable. Furthermore, you'll be limited to using #69 bonded thread and #18 needles. You will probably be limited to sewing 3/16" to 1/4" of material. If the machine has bottom feed (dogs) and a flat foot, it may not feed sticky garment leather at all. In that case, you'll need to find a Teflon or roller pressor foot to replace the steel foot. Adler feet are usually unlike most others in common use; they have their own mounting system and typically cost more than Singer or Consew feet. Parts for this machine come from Germany and are expensive.

One more adjustment you might try is to the rubber tipped stop screw that sets the minimum/off position for the foot pedal. There is a chain connecting the right side of the speed pedal to a small lever that protrudes from a slot in the back of the servo motor. There is a turn-able screw with a rubber cap than moves the lever. In the off position, the lever sits at the top of the slot. If this screw is set too far down, the motor will always be almost on. Try turning the screw all the way up, until it stops turning. If necessary, take off the rubber cap from it. This allows more upward motion, which translates into more off and low speed range of motion. Also, make sure there is a little free play in the chain going from the pedal to the hole in the motor speed lever.

I have a learned recommendation for all 29-4 and 29k small bobbin patchers. Buy a couple of extra bobbin cases and a few dozen bobbins. Also, get some extra bobbin springs and the little screw that holds and adjusts the bobbin tension. Also, buy a replacement needle securing screw. Next, locate a source of #69 300 yard nylon patcher spools of thread and stock up on all the colors you will use; two spools each. Get a squeeze bottle 20 weight electric motor oil from Lowes (looks like 3 in 1, but has a blue label) and put a few drops into all of the oil holes and let some drip into the puck on the back.

As Walter Mitty would say: these machines go tapoketa, tapoketa

Please contact Steve Tayrien about your motor problem. His number is 866-962-9880. But, first try loosening the v-belt a bit. Sometimes, an overly tight drive belt will cause erratic motor behavior. In fact, you can test it by removing the belt entirely, then lightly push down on the toe of the speed pedal. See if you can run it slowly without any jumps in speed. If you get it set to a good slow speed position and hold it steady, but it speeds up without any further pushing on your part, the controller circuitry may be defective. BTW: Is this motor the one with the digital readout and up and down speed buttons?

I am still looking for spare parts and accessories for my 100 year old Union Lockstitch Machine. If anybody has extra or unwanted bobbins, needles, awls, pressor feet, throat plates, edge guides, springs, screws, or various 4-sided wrenches, I can use them. I am also interested in a spare needlebar with or without the channel cutting blade. Also, if you have spare machine parts that aren't needed, I may take them off your hands. Please contact me through the forum, or by replying to this topic.

Priceless!