Wizcrafts

From your description of that machine, it hasn't really been reconditioned! It sounds like you will need to replace the needlebar needle securing screw. If the new screw doesn't hold the needle in tightly, the bar may need to be tapped to a large thread and hole size (with a new screw to match), or replaced altogether. The stitch length changing that much, on a relatively thin seam sounds like a loose feed dog, or a loose or totally worn out upper feed mechanism, or an unusually loose stitch length adjuster knob. You may be best to ship it to a qualified dealer on this forum, for professional repairs.

Guys, there's no need to fight over this. My friend asked me to post the machine for sale with his asking price, which is based on what he paid for the machine and the modifications to it. If somebody seriously wants to get this machine they should call him and discuss it with him and see where the price goes from there. He doesn't even have an email address at this time. That's why I posted the machine details for him.

Amen! If you really can't live with the bottom puckers, reduce the pressure on the pressor feet. If there is a pressor foot spring on top of the head, turn it counterclockwise, until it almost pops out. That is the point of minimum spring pressure. As long as the leather doesn't lift with the ascending needle, go with reduced top pressure. If the needle causes the leather to lift, increase the pressure until the leather stays put.

I guess that info can be found by searching the Simanco.com database on the model 269 machines. Or, ask dealers who sold them and still have some in stock. I gave you a phone number for one dealer who undoubtedly has various bartackers on his shelves.

Suem; I've seen those x tacker machines you are looking for. They are cam driven, just like a bartacker. They were/are made by Singer, Brother, Juki and others. The Singer model you want is a 269x...series. For instance, the Singer 269x999 produces two boxed criss-cross patterns: 1/2" x 1 1/4" and 3 1/4" x 1-3/4" Machines like this are plentiful since the closure of many textile and garment plants in the USA. Most industrial sewing machine dealers who sell to a variety of markets (not just to leathercrafters) have several tacking machines sitting on shelves, collecting dust. They were made to tack all day long, not sit and die. Call a dealer (e.g. 866-362-7397) and see if he has an old Singer X pattern tacker in stock. If the pattern dimensions are close to what you want, and the price is affordable, grab it. Oh, when you find your tacker and bring it home, put it far away from the spouse. They produce a wonderful racket, with a super loud CLANG at the end of the cycle!

You need to check it out very thoroughly before buying it for that much money. Here is your checklist: with the pressor foot up off the throat plate, see how much slack there is when you push and pull on it. You can test this by raising the lever on the back, or by lowering the needle, which raises the foot. If you can push or pull the foot more than about 1/16 inch, stitch length is going to suffer, especially if it can move 1/8 inch. rotate the butterfly knobs under the head, turning the then foot around 360 degrees. It should not bind in any position. Binding can be caused by a bent shaft, or the thread check spring just above the needle mounting bracket. examine the hole in the take-up lever for excessive wear. Thread actually cuts into the metal after decades of use. Make sure the mechanism turns freely when you rotate the flywheel. The rear mounted wheel must be turned towards you from the top (CCW). Make sure that the bobbin winder is attached to the back of the machine, under the hand wheel, and that is can be moved into firm contact with the wheel and locked into position. A worn or missing bobbin winder tire can be replaced. Open the throat plate and wiggle the bobbin shuttle. It shouldn't have much more than 1/8 inch slack. It is driven by a rack and pinion gear assembly that wears out over time. Test the machine to see if it sews properly, without skipped stitches and that you get at least 6 stitches per inch, on 5-6 ounce leather. The stitch length gets shorter as the thickness increases. At 1/4 inch, you may not get more than 7 or 8 spi, if the foot drive actuator is work out (see step #1). Make sure the treadle mechanism works smoothly and that the belt has sufficient tension to turn the machine. The belt is easily replaced if worn or missing. I would want to get at least one bobbin case and a few spare bobbins with the machine. THREADING ROD! If it doesn't have a threading rod you will need to buy one, to push the top thread down the needlebar. These old patchers use type 29x3 (round point) and 29x4 (leather point) needles. They are really only good at sewing with #69 to #92 thread. The bobbins are tiny and don't hold a lot of thread. If you try to load a bobbin with #138 thread and sneeze, you will run out of thread! Just kidding ;-) - but it won't sew very far with #138. Also, the pressure required to sew with #138 may stress out the feed mechanism.

Both the Cobra and Cowboy stitchers you mentioned will sew 4-5 ounce leather, with #69 bonded nylon thread, if you insert a #18 needle and lower the pressure on the pressor feet. You may have to increase the tension on the bobbin spring and reduce the tension on the top thread, to balance the position of the knots. The quality and construction of both brands is equal in my estimation, so I would see who offered me the best price and accessories package, shipped. Our members who have bought both Cowboy and Cobra machines are very happy with them. Both companies offer personal assistance on the phone, after the sale. Both stock accessories, needles, thread, parts, etc and have very similar pricing structures. Call both dealers and ask them to describe their machines in detail to you. Maybe one of them will offer something the other doesn't, like a servo motor with a bit of free motion before it engages, or stainless steel pressor feet and throat plates that won't stain moist veg-tan leather. Last, but definitely not least, both Bob Kovar and Steve Tayrien are great guys and knowledgeable sewing machine gurus. Your good money will not be wasted if you purchase either of these brands of stitchers.

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines sells both. You'll need to first measure the existing pulley and find the size designation of the v-belt. When you order a 2" pulley, also order a belt that is one inch shorter for each inch of pulley diameter difference. If the original pulley is 4 inches, you should buy a two inch shorter belt. The idea is you want to keep the motor tension adjuster in its mid-range of threads. If the belt is too long, you'll be all the way at the bottom of the threaded rod, or off entirely. If it's too short, you'll run out of up adjustment space. A properly adjusted v-belt should have about 1/2 to 3/4 inch deflection in the middle, when pushed lightly with your index finger. If the belt is too tight there will be a lot of stress on the both the motor shaft and main shaft on the machine. If it's too loose, there may be slippage under heavy loads. Keep some belt no-slip spray handy in case that happens. It works wonders and quiets the belt in the process.

I have written an extensive article about the types of sewing machines required to sew leather. It may help you reach a decision about which machine is really the best for your purposes. If the local sewing machine shop has such a machine, great! If not, we have quite a few sewing machine dealers who sell industrial machines of all types and sewing machines specifically designed and equipped to sew leather, thick or thin. By discounting inadequate machines and narrowing your choices to those meeting your requirements, you'll save a lot of time, money and aggravation.

It is a garment and tailoring machine, from the flat feed and ruler marked throat cover plate. The self oiler says that it runs at very high speed. It will be a good machine for sewing clothes from denim, broadcloth, and cotton. It will sew with #69 thread and a #18 needle. If you want to sew leather garments, use a leather point needle, change the pressor foot to a roller foot, then change the pulley on the motor to a 2" pulley and get a shorter v-belt to keep the motor adjuster in the middle of its range. If the machine is still too fast, buy a servo motor, with a 2" pulley (and short belt). Do not expect this machine to sew belt leather, or any material thicker than about 1/4 inch of soft material.

There is also Greg at Keystone sewing machines. They have new and used machines. I'll have to look them up to get a phone number. Techsew, a division of Raphael Sewing in Montreal, PQ, also sells used machine and is a member of this forum. There are actually a lot of new machine dealers that also rebuild older stock. I am sure you will find a suitable machine at a price you can afford.

You'll probably need a cylinder arm machine, with a walking foot mechanism, to do the work you described. A couple of our member-dealers sell used, as well as new leather sewing machines. The one I know best is Bob Kovar, owner of Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (in Toledo, Ohio). He has dozens of new and used/rebuilt machines of all descriptions for sale, including many that have cylinder arms. His phone number is 866-362-7397. If you are in the market for a new machine, your choices expand, along with the cost.

I am posting this for a business associate of mine, who has a custom leathercraft shop in Flint, Michigan. He is selling his well maintained and highly improved Randall Model 132 strap cutter. The machine was purchased new from Randall, in New York, in 1990. He had it modified by a local machine shop to have heavy duty bearings and grease fittings on the main shafts, ensuring that the shafts will not run dry or go out of round, under the stress of cutting thick leather into straps. The machine originally shipped with one set of blades and spacers. He required more widths of cut and purchased or had manufactured 45 spacers in 4 widths and 4 new blade spacer plates for them. He also purchased about 45 additional type 132 cutting blades, from Randall. The asking price is $4250. The machine is clean, setup and can be tested in the shop. More details and lots of photos of the machine, motor-table and the many extra parts are available on this web page. Anybody interested in viewing or purchasing the Randall 132 strap cutter should call Doug Monroe, at M&M Leather: 810-732-4907, Monday - Saturday, from noon until 6 PM, Eastern Time. This is a cash and carry offer, from Flint, Michigan.

Let the discussion begin! Art has already mentioned the Cobra stitchers, which are based in California. They are great machines. But, nobody has mentioned Cowboy stitchers yet. Cowboy stitchers are of equal quality and similar specifications to the Cobras. The Cowboy CB2500 (10.5" arm), CB3500 (9" arm), CB4500 (16.5" arm) and CB5500 (25" arm) are sold and supported by Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines: 866-362-7397. They will sew all the holsters you can throw at them, with thread heavy enough to tie a bale of hay. For pancake holsters, 1/4 inch in total thickness, well molded to the shape of the gun, I would use #207 or #277 bonded nylon thread. To sew these thread sizes you need to use a #24 or #25 needle. You are correct: you definitely want a lockstitch machine! Almost all sewing machines in general use are lockstitch machines. This is used to lock the starting and finishing stitches in place and prevent the work from coming undone. By sewing backwards into the same holes, for about three stitches, you lock the thread in place. You can also sew backwards, or turn the holster around, sewing a parallel stitch line for about 3/4 inch. This system is used by commercial holster manufacturers. The three machines I mentioned are capable of sewing 1/2" (CB2500) and 7/8" (CB3500 and CB4500 models). The 2500 is bottom feed only and can leave tooth marks on the bottom. The others are compound feed, with a smooth feed dog that leaves no tooth marks. If you want to just sew holsters and belts, the 9 inch arm machines will do just fine. They all sew with very heavy thread and big needles, into dense leather, up to 7/8" thick. The CB2500 has a 10 1/2 inch long arm and the 4500 has a 16.5" arm length. If you ever sew a Western holster you will appreciate the longer arm on the CB4500. They do have table top attachments if you need a flat surface to support the work.

I would agree 100%, but the OP specifically said he wanted to stay away from Chinese built machines. That's why I limited my response to US, Japanese and German built machines. He also asked about the American built Campbell machines. I my humble opinion, there is no other harness/holster sewing machine in production that can equal the stitch quality of a Campbell-Randall or Union Lockstitch machine. I have used Union Lockstitch machines to produce hundreds of holsters, belts and pouches over the years, including the holsters used in the movie Romeo and Juliet. Freedman Harness has a floor full of Randalls, working day in and day out, making harness, bridles and reins for the Rockerfellers and other top equestrian businesses and breeders. A few years ago, Bianci had Campbell-Randall machines producing most of their holsters, pouches, and Sam Browne belts for Police, security, sporting and military use. In the hands of a skilled operator, nothing beats a Campbell-Randall or Union Lockstitch machine for stitch quality, tightness, and top/bottom appearance. Very few other machines can sew with liquid waxed linen thread either. Just my 2 cents worth! Now, if the OP wants to ask about Chinese built machines, I'll be glad to discuss them.

1894leverguy; I understand that you intend to sew two pieces of veg-tan leather into pancake holsters, belts and straps, not exceeding 1/4" thickness. What you haven't stated is the size of thread you want to use. This will determine the basic type of machine you will need; not just the thickness. If you can accept a maximum thread size of #138, a Japanese built Juki LU-1508 or Consew 206RB-(number) sewing machine will do the trick. These machines and other Japanese clones will sew over 3/8" with #138 thread, top and bottom. Note, that the most current Consew, the 206RB-5, is now built in China. If you want a non-Chinese built machine, look for a good used, or unsold 206RB-4. Adler makes flatbed and cylinder arm machines. But, the current crop are mostly built in China. You will have to poll the dealers to see who has a German built Adler. Pfaff are excellent German machines. They have walking foot machines that will sew over 1/4", some with #138 thread. As for the 100 RPM maximum motor speed, that is up to what options are available from the seller. If you purchase a machine with a low-speed capable servo motor and 2" pulley, you're set. Otherwise, you'll need to replace the motor with a true slow speed capable servo motor, or a 2" pulley and speed reducer on a clutch motor. Be aware that not all servo motors will sew at speeds below 100 RPM. If you get one of those motors and try sewing at 1 stitch per second, it may drop out and fight you. Those motors have very little slow speed torque. I have a SewPro 500GR gear reduction servo motor, with a 50mm pulley, on my Japanese National 300N walking foot machine, and it will sew from the speed of grass growing, all the way up to 1500 rpm (after motor to flywheel reduction, about 600 stitches per minute, max.). As to Campbell-Randall, it is the best stitcher you can buy, but is not really for beginners. It is a needle and awl machine that lives in a world of its own. You would do best to learn to sew on a walking foot machine first. If you decide to buy a Campbell, you should go get it in person and take some time to learn how to operate, adjust and maintain it, at the factory in Yoakum Texas.

Since you're in Canada why don't you contact Raphael Sewing/Techsew, in Montreal? There are also several industrial sewing machine dealers in Toronto. They can cross-reference your Naka to a Juki or Seiko part number and get you sewing in a few days, via C.P. If they can't find a matching part (unlikely they can't), Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines may be able to match that spring.

I sew at work on a Cobra Class 4 heavy stitcher, which is equipped with a servo motor containing a digital speed readout and up/down speed buttons. Since the machine arrived in late-January I have struggled with trying to get it to sew steadily at very slow speeds, without dialing it way down to its minimum top speed (useless on long runs). Also, it was very difficult to turn the flywheel by hand, to single stitch around belt tips, or pre-position the needle before entering a previously made hole (doing repairs). This morning I was talking to Steve, at Cobra, and told him about this problem. He suggested that I try loosening the belt going from the speed reducer to the machine and also the motor to reducer belt. The reducer is bolted to a slot in a side post on the frame and can be moved up and down, to tension the upper belt. The motor has a threaded rod with nuts above and below a tang on the motor. Raising the position of the tang loosens the motor belt and vice-versa. Both of the belts on our machine were very tight and had minimal deflection in their middle areas (under 3/8"). Today, we loosened both belts slightly (to ~1/2" light touch deflection) and I am here to tell you that it made a big improvement! It is now easier to obtain and maintain slow speeds (~1/second), before the motor drops out. Furthermore, it is also easier to hand wheel for single stitches, or to position the needle where I want it to line up. Mind you, the hand wheel is still loaded by the motor and nowhere near as easy to turn as a machine hooked up to a clutch motor. This is a no cost solution for anybody who has a big sewing machine with a speed reducer between the motor and machine. It has benefits to the motor, reducer and machine, in that it reduces the strain on the bearings. You just have to make sure you don't loosen either belt so much that it slips when you sew dense or very thick leather. There is a sweet spot and you can find it with a little experimentation. If your work is always medium temper leather you can probably loosen the belts even more, before slippage occurs. A good belt dressing can give better grip, at less belt tension. Happy sewing to all and to all a good night!

I just read your edit. If you can sew the seats hanging down on the left end of the machine, a shorter cylinder arm machine will work for you. There are a bunch of 9 inch long cylinder arm machines on the market. They will sew with very thick thread and huge needles, have very large bobbins and come with servo motors and can sew from 1/16" up to 7/8" of leather. Called 441 clones, these 9" arm walking foot machines sell for between $1500 to $2000, depending on the brand and how badly they want to move that type of machine. The same machines are also available in 16.5" arm and 25" arm lengths, but for more money ($2500 and up). If you want brand names, PM me.

If you want a sewing machine that can handle thread as thick as the type used for hand sewing, you are not going to find it for much under $1000. If a seat is 13 inches long at the longest point to be sewn, you'll need a work space at least that long on the right side of the machine. Of the machines commonly available, only a few have more than a foot inside the body. One type is a long arm show patcher. These machines have an 18 inch long snout, that is really narrow at the left end and gets wider as you move to the right. The work is entirely moved by the pressor foot, which has teeth on the bottom and can be turned 360 degrees, by means of thumb paddles under the head. The bottom cover plate has a hole large enough for a big needle on one end and a narrower needle on the other end. The bobbins on this particular machine are about 1/4" x 3/4" and are best loaded with #69 or #92 thread. You can use #138 thread on top, with a #21, or #22 needle (maybe even a #20). I have tried to thread #138 into a #19 patcher needle but it won't go through the eye. Patchers like this, mounted onto a cast iron treadle base, typically sell for between $800 to $1200 used. The machine and base weigh in at about 200 pounds. If you want to sew with heavier than #138 thread, look for a harness stitcher and triple your budget.

You'll need one hell of a post machine to do all of those projects, especially the assembled seats. I'll look over some specs and see if anything presents itself as a heavy duty post sewing machine. They are usually used to sew moccasins, ball and biker caps, shoe uppers, etc. I've even sewn cowboy hats on old post machines. However, they used really thin #69 thread and had roller feet that barely allowed 1/4" to be sewn. Newer post machines may have a walking foot that possibly allows up to 3/8" thickness and #92 or 138 thread. Otherwise, a heavy duty cylinder arm machine, perhaps with a raised throat plate, will be required. How thick is the leather, at the thickest point, when you sew it together? What is the thinness of the suspenders? What size thread are you using? Can you tolerate tooth marks on the bottom side? How deep of an open space do you need to the right of the needle? How much can you afford to spend on a machine?

My friend's Cobra Class 4 does the same thing. We set it to the stitch length we need for various thicknesses. We also change stitch length for effect. It is not set in stone. I can tell you with certainty that if you remove the regular throat plate and feed dog, and replace them with the slotted plate, that you will lose about 25% or more of the set stitch length in forward, and maybe more in reverse. That was my finding a few weeks ago when I tried that. I think a teflon strip taped onto the throat plate might help reduce the loss of stitch length from friction with the slotted plate. I think that perhaps my recommendation about loosening both top and bottom thread tensions will help al lot when sewing tall leather loads. With less bobbin pressure a smaller needle size could be used and would still be able to pull the knots well up into the layers. The smaller needle exhibits less friction going in and out of the leather. With less friction on the way up, the top pressure spring can be backed off, making it easier for the machine to feed stitches of any length.

A pendulum always swings farther at the bottom, than higher up its shaft. Most modern sewing machines, including all of the 205 and 441 type machines, work on the pendulum needlebar principle. They pivot at the top, in an arc that is by nature longer at the bottom than up the bar. Once the needle penetrates all of the leather layers and begins to move them, the distance higher up must be shorter than if there were only a couple of layers to move. It may not be what you wanted to hear, but it is backed up by science. Most upholstery class machines don't sew over 3/8" of anything, so the stitch length variance is less noticeable (but present). That is no longer the case when you move up to 3/4 inch. You must lengthen the stitch length adjuster to compensate for the variation when changing from 1/4" to 3/4". Here are possible workarounds that you might be want to try out, in the hopes of getting the least variation in stitch length from thin to thick leather. First, make sure that the feed dog is set to its highest position as it moves the work. It can only go so high before it makes contact with the underside of the throat plate. Next, try backing off the top pressure on the pressor feet. You can only back off so far before the leather raises with the ascending needle and thread. Your machine doesn't have individual springs for the inside and outside feet, so one upper pressure adjustment serves both feet. Try going up or down one needle size. A thicker needle won't flex as much as a thinner one, but requires more pressure to hold the leather down. A thinner needle penetrates the leather easier, but the knots may not be pulled up as easily. Reduce the top and bobbin spring tensions equally. Less top and bottom tension makes it easier for the mechanism to feed the thick material. Spray or wipe silicon or Teflon lube on the throat plate under the leather to reduce friction on the bottom. There are sewing machines that don't exhibit the change in stitch length with changes in thickness. I own such a machine (ULS), but it is not for the faint-hearted. Such machines have what is known as square drive. This is not found in most sewing machines, as it is more complicated and expensive to implement than a pivoting pendulum needlebar. Square drive machines sell for more used than you paid for your new CB3500.

Do I read correctly that you want a sewing machine to make motorcycle seats? Are you certain that a flatbed machine will work properly?

If the machine and motor are in pristine condition, maybe $500. There would have to be a boatload of bobbins, needles and thread to make it worth that much. Otherwise, the machine and motor are probably worth no more than $350. If you find that you can't control the clutch motor you can buy a brand new variable speed servo motor for under $200 shipped. But, first try replacing the pulley with the smallest one you can find. A 2" pulley is plenty slow. You'll probably need a shorter v-belt for the smaller pulley.